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Old 29th January 2008, 14:50   #46
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I second the 'Trust' factor. When I was looking at buying my first car a year and a half ago, (budget:4-5.5 lacs), I was torn between the Swift and Palio 1.6. Took a test drive. The Palio was a much better drive overall. The Swift was a nice looker with a strong service network. Heart vs. Head.

The head won. Was too scared with after hearing a couple of horror stories (word-of-mouth, i admit i never verified).

Truly hope Fiat gets its act together. I'm not sure if partnering with Tata is the way to go - I'd have been happier if they had built up a top-notch servicing network from the scratch.
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Old 29th January 2008, 16:07   #47
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Both Italians (Fiat) and the French (Peugeot) have bungled very badly in our market BUT there is a difference between them. While the French bailed out years back the Italians, despite selling fewer Palio's then Mercedes sells C class cars, are still here. To be honest, I am surprised Fiat is still here. Any other company would have locked up and gone long back. Let's hope they go from strength to strength from here.

As they say, when your down in the dumps you should be happy because the only way out is UP.
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Old 29th January 2008, 16:10   #48
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Im sorry to say but you have got the facts wrong there.
The Premier Padmini is the result of the sudershan period imposed my the congress government by banning import of technology( some adoped russian policy to help the country become self reliant and independent. didnt really work on any front though )
FIAT had got nothing to do with the Premier Padmini, the Premier guys bought a FIAT body plant which was being scrapped, to india and put an engine in it and sold it as the Padmini. the amby(austin-morris), Contessa(plymouth) are some other examples.

FIAT 124





The Premier 118NE is again a FIAT, car of the year 1966, a 118NE is FIAT 124's body with a Nissan 1180CC engine and a Nissan Cherry's Gear box, it came out to compete with the Maurti in the mid 80's and still was the best sedan in india until the sudershan period ended.In russia the old FIATs are sold as LADA's they though underwent R&D at the least here are some lada pics.








Though the Padmini's called FIAT's and were popular, FIAT never capitalised on that they could have done around the time when the santro was out.
The FIAT uno though is a solid car and that was the first FIAT entry into the indian market. They still dont seem to wanna launch their range or go full fledged here, the Palio STILE came out as a PALIO with newer headlamps way back in 2005.

Lada Reved up by LOTUS auto



PS added pic to make it more clear. didnt have pics of the FIAT 1100 which made the PRemier padmini, but the the premier looks exactly like the FIAT 1100 new model not the old model.
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Old 29th January 2008, 16:48   #49
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The merger with TATA is good for After sales service but Def not for the sales, i got a Ikon in june. but wanted to get a Palio stele but the sales guy was all against the palio and said if we buy a India he'll give us a 40000 discount. that would cost us a lakh less than the palio. The point is the sales guys talk you into buying an indica instead of a Palio.
Most people dont buy the Palio because the general opnion about the UNO & Palio given by road side mechanics and many people is that we dont get spares. But hell. we dont get major spares of any new cars at any place other than the company.
The FIAT guys should have been more aggressive with sales than how they were and are.
Similar thing with peugot to do with the sales and after sales service the car is good but no spares are avaiable, neither did they get into hard selling to have a proper customer base.

(PS- mods please merge this with my earlier post.)
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Old 29th January 2008, 17:08   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSA View Post
stress on FE more then Safety and give good after sales service.
And then there are people who crib about Palio MJD not offering ABS and airbags
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Old 29th January 2008, 17:25   #51
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Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post
Fiat has won the coveted European Car of The Year award more than any other company. Hope you understand that it could not have achieved this by selling cars only in Italy. May we know why you are so biased against Fiat that you fail to acknowledge the heritage of the company? Moreover you are not an owner, so why are you so p..ed off with Fiat?
I am honestly not biased against Fiat, and if I get a good product with good resale, I will buy (but not a Palio with pre-Independence interior).

Can you give figures for Fiat's sales worldwide by country and the trend. Here are Fiat's sales in Europe from 1990 to 2006:

1990: 1868370, Share 13.8%
1995: 1338581, 11.1%
2000: 1475293, 10%
2003: 1055923, 7.4%
2004: 1058139, 7.3%
2005: 950651, 6.6%
2006: 1120315, 7.6%
2007: 1020524, 8.1%

AFAIK, fiat has 0 sales in US, but 116 ferrari sales in 2006. Japan: somewhat same figures.

Which part of the world again?
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Old 29th January 2008, 17:35   #52
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Excluding commercial vehicles, Fiat sold 1.98 million automobiles in 2006. Of this 808,000 in Italy (market share of 30.7%), 482,000 in Western Europe (share of 3.2% !), 465,000 in Brazil (25.3%), 33,000 in Poland (10.3%), and 192,000 elsewhere.

I stand corrected. According to these figures, worldwide means Italy and Brazil.
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Old 29th January 2008, 17:37   #53
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http://www.fiatgroup.com/comuni/php/...7SJ7PIUROEIYTT

This has Fiat sales by country from 1997 to 2006.
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Old 29th January 2008, 17:45   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasudeva View Post
AFAIK, fiat has 0 sales in US
Yes but Peugeot, Citoren, Renault have 0 sales in US too. Cadillac barely sells in Europe. Suburu is the biggest car maker in Australia in New Zealand but barely sells in other countries. Besides, not being present in the US market doesn't mean the company is good for nothing. In the same way, Lexus was introduced in Japan only in 2007. Does that mean the company doesn't have global presence? Fiat doesn't sell in US because they do not have a product for the US market. Even Alfa Romeo doesn't sell in US although there is talk of Alfa's being relaunched for the US in 2009.

How about checking Suzuki's sales in US?
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Old 29th January 2008, 17:48   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasudeva View Post
I stand corrected. According to these figures, worldwide means Italy and Brazil.
What about China, Turkey, South Africa, UK, Ireland, France & other European Countries, does these belong to another planet?
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Old 29th January 2008, 19:43   #56
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Originally Posted by neoonwheels View Post
FIAT simply handed over the management to TATA for being rap** buy their dealers.. Its been almost a year TATA is selling FIAT cars.. Still the sales has not been in 4 digit number for a single month..
Leave alone 4 digits, it hasn't crossed 500 units just yet. In fact, the sales figures are declining. FIAT should really look into the deal with TATA.

When the Stile was launched, sales were around 250 mark. With ads and publicity coming up, the sales touched the 400 mark once. It has declined ever since, and last month sales came to 151 units only!

Seems FIAT is not benefitting much from the deal.
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Old 29th January 2008, 19:44   #57
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If I remember, Fiat used to sell in the US, but had to close down. Is that correct.

Of course, Fiat sells in other European countries besides Italy, but as Fiat itself has put out in its regulatory filings with SEC, it has a market share of 3% in Europe outside Italy.

Suzuki is another company with worldwide primarily meaning Japan and India, with small shares in Europe. I can let you know their US sales, but anyway they do not amount to much.

Of course, companies can thrive in niche markets, but quite difficult in today's competitive markets.

As for the US, as any auto expert (I am not) will tell you, it is the most intensely competitive market (because US is the car country) and to thrive there is a sure shot way to achieve global scale volumes and profits. The Jap 3 are successful there, and that explains their stock market valuations compared with others.
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Old 29th January 2008, 20:13   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasudeva
AFAIK, fiat has 0 sales in US, but 116 ferrari sales in 2006. Japan: somewhat same figures.
You are right about the Japan part - in all my trips here, I am yet to see a single Fiat car. I did see a Ferrari last weekend (my first sighting - it was awesome, to say the least).
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Old 29th January 2008, 21:13   #59
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Some one mentioned the sales about Suzuki in US.
Well right now we can say that Suzuki sells around 1,00,000 i.e more than one lakh in US.
After the recent additions of Grand Vitara, XL-7, SX4 the sales have increased very much.
They are making progress.
Suzuki is presently 12th largest in world.
Suzuki is 3rd in Japanese market.

Now about the fact that Fiat, Renault and Peugeot Citroen do not have a proper vehicle for US.
This is not the truth.
Peugeot 407 can be sold there in US as a Camry competetior. The car is i.e. the chasis is superior to the Toyota. US will easily appreciate this vehicle.
similary if Hyundai can sell those Verna/Accent in US, then Fiat, Renault, Peugeot and Citroen can also sell their vehicles.

They have very good compact cars.

But the problem is the reliability. Frecnh and Italian cars are known to have probably the worst electricals and if these glithches come in their way to US, then they will be failure.


Both the French and Ilalians have really very good engineering as far as diesel (bound to grow US) engines and chasis are concerned. But they must lurn something about electricals.They have already missed a host of oppurtinities and they are doing same.
But Alfa is planning to come back to US in 2009.
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Old 29th January 2008, 22:13   #60
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I agree with Neoonwheels, and i suppose people who know FIAT will also agree that, As far as product and pricing is concerned, FIAT was and is way ahead in its segment.
But everytime now or then, they have missed vital points.
I bought a FIAT Adventure at 5.65L excluding discounts. This car was launched in India in 2002 at a price tag of 6.89L which have only electronic ORVM and Kenwood stereo extra.
So considering this fact and the features mentioned by Gemithomas, its way way ahead then any other car of this segment. Atleast 1.5 to 2L cheaper. And it nowhere meant that you were geting some outdated technology for this cheaper price.
The refinement of this car is amongst the best ones.

But the big point is what is mentality of majority of indian customers? Primary part is FE, obviously you can't have all the favours, if you choose toughness in chassis then you will make car heavy, if you want more power you have to give more cc to it. But i suppose safety and performance was never the priority here.
Even then considering our huge population, obviously there are considerable amount of customers, who want all that what FIAT was offering exclusively. But then quite obviously this segment of people, will atleast ask for proper service network, availability of spares, and some expertise for servicing and repair for their technology.
Somehow FIAT got a perception that their product is good enough to sell by itself, and to some extent it did. But in no time their weak points came into light. And when their was no advertising for their products, what ever one use to hear about FIAT was that they have poor sales and service network, lack of spares and a joke in terms of resale value (plus the exaggerated misconceptions).
So in 1st place they have no marketing strategy then no post sales support. The only positive point was the product itself.
Now with TATA i think they have only increaed the reach. And as with alliance, most of the dealers are First TATA then FIAT compared to First FIAT then TATA., So whatever seems is just virtuall, the obviously sales support is actually non existant. When i was searching for Adventure, dealers used to suggest me Indigo marina, their second preference was Indica and last was palio, so its like unless and untill one is dead sure that he wants a FIAT, he simply won't get a convincing reason as to why he should buy a FIAT (that is why most of the decisions to buy a FIAT are from heart rather then mind, and that is FIAT owners do really want FIAT to recover). Moreover the sales guys dont know whats special about FIAT, how to elaborate it. And amongst post sales the technical expertise amongst service guys is still not available. Spares availability is still to be improved. I still prefer to go to Vivek Automobiles(originally Fiat) in delhi which is 60 Km from my home compared to Dhingra Motors(originally TATA) which is only 5Km away. And now when its almost sure that TATA is going to be working day and night to match the expectancies of Nano, then who in TATA will care(rather should care) about poor sales of FIAT. Obviously TATA is here for business only. I seriously wish that FIAT will not clash its launch and booking timings of Linea and Punto with Nano. It will nowhere effect the mentality of people who goes for the segment of Linea or Punto, but it will surely limit the resources of TATA, which will be required to get a 180 degree turnaround of its sales.
I think FIAT should have atleast the service guys and the sales guys (who are front interface with customer) well trained for their cars or maybe just exlusivly trained for FIAT.
Remaining of the network can be taken care by TATA.

I think still FIAT has not learned what wrong they have done in past. And their planning and marketing department is under illusive perceptions. So they are analysing their problems wrongly and taking wrong steps to correct it.
Anyways I hope I am wrong this time.
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