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Old 30th January 2008, 12:52   #61
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Some one mentioned the sales about Suzuki in US.
Well right now we can say that Suzuki sells around 1,00,000 i.e more than one lakh in US.
After the recent additions of Grand Vitara, XL-7, SX4 the sales have increased very much.
They are making progress.
Suzuki is presently 12th largest in world.
Suzuki is 3rd in Japanese market.
Suzuki sold 100,990 in the US market during 2006 for a total share of 0.6%. During Jan-Jul 2007, it sold 65431, including SX4 of 9246.

As for Renault, it had to run out of the US with its tail between its legs. To know why, try searching for Dauphine on Google. TIME has rated it amongst the 50 worst cars of all time. As per TIME:

It was, in fact, a rickety, paper-thin scandal of a car that, if you stood beside it, you could actually hear rusting. Its most salient feature was its slowness, a rate of acceleration you could measure with a calendar. It took the drivers at Road and Track 32 seconds to reach 60 mph, which would put the Dauphine at a severe disadvantage in any drag race involving farm equipment.
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Old 30th January 2008, 12:57   #62
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OT again, but for 10M2007, Suzuki sold 88536 in US, including 12767 SX4, which is selling at around 1200-1300 per month. Grand Vitara is selling 1400 per month. Remember, this is the US market with a size of 16 million, as compared with 1.5 million for India.
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Old 30th January 2008, 13:03   #63
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When I bought a car in 10/2003, I was also actively considering Palio/Sienna at the time, since I was tired of driving tinny Marutis, and liked the Palio and Fiat name. But what went against: FE, resale, reputation, commitment of Fiat (whether they would remain here), service network, etc. What I did buy was a car (Corsa) that has almost the same characteristics as Fiat but also with the same problems listed above.
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Old 30th January 2008, 13:16   #64
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Don't you think you would have been better off having gone by your initial choice (Fiat), given the current situation ? Opel is gone, while Fiat seems to be atleast having a chance, given the tie-up with Tata. But then, I am talking from hindsight.
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Old 2nd February 2008, 00:27   #65
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Here are my observations with Fiat from my association with them for 3 years.

They know their problems well but I strongly believe that they could not find a root cause (may be multiple) for the same. This problem can not be addressed by a solution at one layer. For example, they thought that the A.S.S can be improved by JV with TATA. But problems seem to be more.
Here are my findings/observations. The mistakes they have been doing in all the departments:

Sales :
1. Fiat India/Dealers believe that the car talks the show. Customers should come for the car, we are not going to advertise. No Ads in print and electronic media.

Service:

1. The car can not have problems. --> If you report any problem, no one listens to the customer. After all, it was made by human beings, there is a good scope of errors and faulty pieces due to human errors at least.
2. Service advisors feel that they know about the car better than the customer. They never listen to your problem. The standard answer is: This is how it works.
3. Every thing is automatic. If ECU does not show up the problem. There is no problem with the car. After all it boils down to mechanical things and it can have problems....
4. Spares were costlier, were reduced and costlier now.

Marketing:

1. Fiat never done any research with their customers, critics and service guys to know the problems and rectifying the problem. This is, WE NEVER DO ANY THING WRONG attitude.
2. They never studied Indian customers to make cars that suit Indian middle class man. They dumped the cars that were made in Italy and Brazil.
3. Fiat feels, It is customers luck to have Fiat Cars.

Strong Base for future:

1. Never tried to improve A.S.S
2. No training provided to service mechanics.
3. Red tapism in processing parts orders.
4. Does not have zeal to become No.1. ( I do not know whether they learned any thing Michael Schumacher and Ferrari )
5. Neglected Customer needs


-BSR

PS: purely my opinion, no offense meant to any one.
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Old 2nd February 2008, 10:40   #66
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I completely agree with Rao.
Actually the Platform A178 is really old now and it may be great and strong, but its old and becuse of its age, it is also quite heavy.
The latest Fiat platforms are really great which offer all the things of present Palio ( A178) and more with relatively less weight.
My point is that the stiffness to weight ratio has imporved i.e. we can have more stiffness and safety with same amount of weight.

Both of them have improved over time and are dominating in EU for their diesel engines. And as they have great diesel engines, they can afford slightly high prices for their cars.
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Old 2nd February 2008, 11:59   #67
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Quote:
Spares were costlier, were reduced and costlier now.
There is a lot of talk here about the Stile's expensive spares but we need to remember that it's the accident repair parts that are expensive mainly due to newer panels in the Stile. For example, the bonnet of the old Palio costs Rs.2995 but for the Stile it's almost Rs.13,000. Spares will come down with more localisation and better volumes.

There is also a reputation/perception about car makers in buyers minds. Because of that GM, Ford, Fiat, Skoda are expensive while Maruti, Honda, Hyundai are cheaper. When the Swift was new it was the most expensive hatcback to maintian in India yet even at that time among the many points that were listed for buying the Swift was cheap spares. This happened even on this forum so why blame the average Indian car buyer if he believes Maruti = Cheap spares. Mind you I am not saying that Maruti is not cheap, their cars are cheap to maintain but lets also not forget that Maruti uses a lot of common parts in their different cars. For example, the steering wheel and instrument cluster is common across the 5 lac Swift, 8 lac SX4 and 15 lac Grand Vitara. Buyers don't seem to complain. If GM, Ford, Fiat do this we immediately complain about them giving cheap looking stuff in their cars and charging a premium for it.
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Old 2nd February 2008, 19:47   #68
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Originally Posted by amit View Post
If GM, Ford, Fiat do this we immediately complain about them giving cheap looking stuff in their cars and charging a premium for it.
Because they do charge a premium for it. Maruti does it, yes, And that enables it to give VFM cars.
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Old 3rd February 2008, 09:22   #69
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I haven't faced FIAT as much as Rao, but two three things i also noticed
First is they are using dumped cars and materials from other countries, The defogger of rear Windshield of my Adventure was not working, when i observed it carefully the linings were not sharp, they do looked irregular, it was made in brasil. However there was a Palio Stile standing there with the windshield from Asahi india, which was much clearer then mine.
So what FIAT propagates as that this car is using most of the parts imported from x or y country, actually many times they are using the dump material.
Another thing is Servcie manager never agrees that there is any fault, his standard reply is this is how FIAT car works, this is its inherent nature, and at times the reason given are really silly.
And yes no feedback at all, i have posted numerous suggestions and complaints on their website, but its like you are shouting at a dead end.
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Old 5th February 2008, 13:22   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
There is a lot of talk here about the Stile's expensive spares but we need to remember that it's the accident repair parts that are expensive mainly due to newer panels in the Stile. For example, the bonnet of the old Palio costs Rs.2995 but for the Stile it's almost Rs.13,000. Spares will come down with more localisation and better volumes.
Well, I would like to make 1 point here.
Bonet definately seems to be expensive for Palio Stile, but how often do we change bonets?
Also, the need to change bonets comes when we meet accidents, & to meet accident repairs, our cars are have comprehensive insurance to take care of it, the owner does not need to bear the entire cost of Rs. 13000. Only those who so not have comprehensive insurance will suffer & I am sure there isn't any who will buy a new car and opt for 3rd party insurance.
So lets talk about the spares which we need to get changed regularly, say something like the beams (headlight) which usually needs a change every 8-12 months, Taillight bulbs, etc. Comparing costs of these components would make more sense.
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Old 5th February 2008, 13:30   #71
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And I would say let us also compare Palio Stile spares costs to Getz & Aveo - UVA. Palio, Getz, Swift & Aveo UVA are the cars we need to compare with. Agreed that Maruti will top the charts. The whooping numbers it sells every month, cheaper spares are to be expected, but lets see where Palio comes in the ranking, as far as Costs of spares in concerned, as numbers for Getz & UVA aren't as great as those of swift, i believe. Comparing these three would give us a more clearer picture.

I will try searching on the net to see if i get some data to compare.
Those who do have some inputs to compare, please post the details.
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Old 5th February 2008, 17:54   #72
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I think Ppsagar has hit the nail on the head. Fiat needs to do something about its image, its product choice, marketing, and service.
In 2004 Jan, I was looking for a hatch. Went to the Fiat showroom. They had 2 cars on display, a Palio and a Sienna. Both were dusty. The showroom was not too clean. There were salespeople around, but none who bothered to attend to customers, inspite of being free.

When we asked them to show the Palio, they pointed their fingers at the car and said " Wahan hai, dekh lo". We walked over, checked out the car, asked for a TD. They said "Abhi aadmi nahi hai, baadme aao" We're like shocked. If this is the response during sales, what will it be like once the deal is done. We walk out. Ended up buying a Santro and love it.

In 2007, another friend wanted to buy a hatch. Took me along to finalize his wheels. Went to a different Fiat showroom, much cleaner, the salesman came and showed us the car. Asked some questions about the car. Salesman did not know, went missing for 15 mins while trying to find out answers. Came back with no luck. Asked for a TD, their response was classic " Petrol nahi hai" Wanted to walk out, but friend liked the Palio. Waited 15 mins while they arranged the fuel, and then took a test ride of the Estille. Did not like the pickup or the attitude.

Now waiting for them to get their act together, so I can get my hands on the Linea.... ;-)
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Old 5th February 2008, 23:31   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
Maruti does it, yes, And that enables it to give VFM cars.
Maruti and VFM? I believe that this is one company which is really ripping customers based on its entrenched position in the marketplace. Every Maruti car except the SX4 is overpriced for what it provides
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Old 6th February 2008, 09:54   #74
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Quote:
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Maruti and VFM? I believe that this is one company which is really ripping customers based on its entrenched position in the marketplace. Every Maruti car except the SX4 is overpriced for what it provides

Not even the SX4 if you really look at it. Common man. There are some things that are called Quality, Fit & Finish, Aesthetics etc. To me the most overpriced would be the Swift Diesel and the least would be the Wagon R
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Old 6th February 2008, 10:32   #75
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Examples of non- Maruti cars providing better things at a lower price ?
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