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Old 6th February 2008, 19:08   #91
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FIAT ADVENTURE. FORD FUSION. CHEVY AVEO. FIAT PALIO STILE. HYUNDAI i10. TATA SAFARI. HONDA CIVIC.
Gemi, My question is what are the specific issues with Swift's quality, Fit & Finish, Aesthetics, power, VFM, etc ? Atleast I could not find any issue with it. I have seen all the cars you listed from inside, and you think they have it all (Except CIVIC). .... You were kidding right ?
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Old 6th February 2008, 21:08   #92
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Not even the SX4 if you really look at it. Common man. There are some things that are called Quality, Fit & Finish, Aesthetics etc. To me the most overpriced would be the Swift Diesel and the least would be the Wagon R
If you call Swift diesel overpriced, what are Getz diesel and fusion diesel? And have you ever driven both WagonR and Swift diesel? Please drive and know the difference. And don't start again. The famous 'rattles' problem. Oh! Too much overhyped on the forum. Every car has rattles.
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The prime example is the Indica Xeta as compared to the Alto, Wagon R, Estilo etc. Other example is obviously the Santro, which today is much better VFM as compared to any of the Maruti products.

I would agree with another statement on the thread that the Swift (petrol and diesel) is the worst VFM amongst all. Poor interior space, old engine/ drivetrain, poor build quality with tacky interiors (compared to its price). Except for styling (which again is subjective), there is nothing going for it.
Tell me about it! Indica Xeta better than a Swift diesel/petrol. The old engine(petrol) performs much better than any hatch engine(except Palio 1.6). And do you know about the diesel engine? Its one of the best small diesel engines in the world. Its an award winning engine too. Now you argue that it was developed by FIAT. Agreed. But what were FIAT doing all these years? What's the use of having a brilliant engine in their labs? It will be appriciated only if it is in production. ACI tells Swift has among the best interiors in hatchbacks. In case you didn't know. Its also one of the best handling hatchbacks we have. And if there's nothing going for it, why do people buy it? Also, lets see how is the long term reliability of Xeta. Alto and WagonR have stood the test of time. Get your facts right before bashing.

Also, how about *** and availability of spares in smaller cities/towns?
Why not rename this thread to a "Maruti bashing thread"?
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Old 6th February 2008, 21:48   #93
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If MSIL, HSIL, Skoda, TKM does something its forgiven but dare Tata, Fiat, GM do so. VFM is subjective, questions were not raised about the GV since very few even look at it, since its a petrol SUV.

Here is a pictoral comparission between the interiors of the three, and they look almost the same



Only the steering looks similar (it obviously will, to portray the family look), But if one looks closely they are different.

Why are we discussing Maruti's in this thread?
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Old 6th February 2008, 22:17   #94
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If you call Swift diesel overpriced, what are Getz diesel and fusion diesel? And have you ever driven both WagonR and Swift diesel? Please drive and know the difference. And don't start again. The famous 'rattles' problem. Oh! Too much overhyped on the forum. Every car has rattles.
Have you looked at the specification and Features list of these cars. You will know why i feel its overpriced. Though you dont need to drive every car to know its worth, i've driven both. I never said they are not capable cars. I just said the LDi and VDi are overpriced. In the meanwhile. HAve you driven the Indica DiCOR? No I'm not trying to irritate you. seriously Just have a look. Its worth the experience.
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Old 6th February 2008, 22:41   #95
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Have you looked at the specification and Features list of these cars. You will know why i feel its overpriced. Though you dont need to drive every car to know its worth, i've driven both. I never said they are not capable cars. I just said the LDi and VDi are overpriced. In the meanwhile. HAve you driven the Indica DiCOR? No I'm not trying to irritate you. seriously Just have a look. Its worth the experience.
Will definitely TD the DICOR. But my point again is, LDi and VDi are priced at a premium of almost 70k over their petrol counterparts. They could have priced it at least 25K lower, I agree. In fact, that was everybody's reaction when it was launched. But seeing Getz priced at a premium of 80K over Swift, it feels that Swift is not at all overpriced. We have a much powerful engine in the Getz and thats the only diffence in specs. No airbags, ABS, etc. As you said, let me look at the Indica Dicor and feel the difference.
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Old 6th February 2008, 23:22   #96
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1. Comparing one overpriced car to another makes no sense. Tomorrow based on some common specs, one might compare the Swift with the Fiat Bravo/ Cinquecento and claim that its great VFM.
2. When other car manufacturers' cars have rattles, it reflects poor build quality, but when Maruti cars have rattles, 'EVERY CAR HAS RATTLES'
3. Did I compare the Swift with the Xeta anywhere? I clearly compared it to the Alto etc. It another matter that I can also debate how its better VFM than even the Swift.
4. When I talk about the a car being VFM, I am talking about the features/ specs w.r.t the price. On this parameter, the Swift petrol/ diesel are surely overpriced.
5. ACI might say a lot many things depending upon how many advertisments they get, how many free cars they get for short term/ long term test drives, how much free hospitality is provided. There is no reason to take their word as sacrosanct. I will say things based on my real world experience and not based on what ACI says.
6. I have a M800 and WagonR in my household. So I surely know how these cars age. I see a lot of people talking about the great longevity of Maruti cars (some say 15+ years). But one has to understand that quite a few of these people take out their cars once a month. In 15 years, they might not pile up enough on the odo.

I have my facts right, have had enough work experience in the auto industry and am well equipped technically to discuss most things. don't make it personal
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Old 7th February 2008, 07:03   #97
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First of all this is all about Frech and Italian car makers.

Second this is that if Hyundai offers one safety things( like ABS), it hypes about it, but when maruti offers safety kits( like ABS), it is just said 'So what". So the formatted output will be this thread going to Hyundai VS Maruti. Both car maker's respective products have their own positive points and negatives. I personally prefer Maruti, but some dont.
Its just upto your own requirements and needs.
So there is no point in going into Hyundai VS Maruti at this point of time in this thread.

Lets hope that Frech and Italian learn from Maruti and Hyundai or may be even Tata.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 7th February 2008 at 07:06. Reason: Forgot to specify what I meant by safety kits
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Old 7th February 2008, 09:31   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srh View Post
1. Comparing one overpriced car to another makes no sense. Tomorrow based on some common specs, one might compare the Swift with the Fiat Bravo/ Cinquecento and claim that its great VFM.
2. When other car manufacturers' cars have rattles, it reflects poor build quality, but when Maruti cars have rattles, 'EVERY CAR HAS RATTLES'
3. Did I compare the Swift with the Xeta anywhere? I clearly compared it to the Alto etc. It another matter that I can also debate how its better VFM than even the Swift.
4. When I talk about the a car being VFM, I am talking about the features/ specs w.r.t the price. On this parameter, the Swift petrol/ diesel are surely overpriced.
5. ACI might say a lot many things depending upon how many advertisments they get, how many free cars they get for short term/ long term test drives, how much free hospitality is provided. There is no reason to take their word as sacrosanct. I will say things based on my real world experience and not based on what ACI says.
6. I have a M800 and WagonR in my household. So I surely know how these cars age. I see a lot of people talking about the great longevity of Maruti cars (some say 15+ years). But one has to understand that quite a few of these people take out their cars once a month. In 15 years, they might not pile up enough on the odo.

I have my facts right, have had enough work experience in the auto industry and am well equipped technically to discuss most things. don't make it personal
Very well said. I can not agree more than this.
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Old 7th February 2008, 14:03   #99
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I have my facts right, have had enough work experience in the auto industry and am well equipped technically to discuss most things. don't make it personal
just a quick one as to how do you see a Palio vis a vis Maruti Cars as far as the longetivity is concerned. Will Palio survive more than the Maruti cars? Is Palio 1.6 a good VFM. Just a curiosity in my mind. Asking you since you have the experience in the industry.
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Old 13th February 2008, 20:51   #100
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@vinit: why don't you first TD palio 1.6 first and TD all the similar hatch from Maruti, Tata, GM & Hyundai stable you will yourself which one is a good VFM
& survive more
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Old 13th February 2008, 22:52   #101
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Originally Posted by vinit.merchant View Post
just a quick one as to how do you see a Palio vis a vis Maruti Cars as far as the longetivity is concerned. Will Palio survive more than the Maruti cars?
Compare an old Palio with equivalent maruti competition. The Maruti might still be having an engine as good as new, but you might just not be able to drive with windows closed and no ICE (Rattles of course!).

The Palio on the other hand may feel as solid as new! Maruti build quality cannot be compared with pre-stile FIATs. But newer Stile's have lost the plot, although its still better than Maruti.

However, Jap engines may last more. But that is just my gut feeling!
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Old 14th February 2008, 11:39   #102
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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Compare an old Palio with equivalent maruti competition. The Maruti might still be having an engine as good as new, but you might just not be able to drive with windows closed and no ICE (Rattles of course!).



However, Jap engines may last more. But that is just my gut feeling!
True, but then car choices are almost all compromises. Suzuki worldwide is known for making micro small cars (800, Alto) and perhaps people are not going to buy a 800 that costs substantially more (because of better NVH, silencers, absorbers, etc) but makes less noise.

How long an engine lasts is wildly variable and depends on the driver and his care. What can be done by the manufacturer is perhaps make the car more forgiving, and less costly to repair.
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Old 14th February 2008, 11:48   #103
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I Wanted To Know About Closed Couple Catalyst (ccc) And Under Floor Clalyst(ufc).
Why Two Catalyat Are Provided.
What Is Difference In Construction Between Two.
One Person Told Me That Ccc Is Provided For Faster Light Off.if Some One Have Additional Data Please Share.
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Old 14th February 2008, 11:51   #104
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Reading through recent statements of Fiat's CEO Marchionne, one gets the feeling that at least Fiat is open to self-criticism, and realises what it has to do to get back up. Marchionne is open to learning from other car makers and is aware of the need to boost quality and productivity.

Contrast that with the boastful (VW planning to be no 1 soon), derisive (Ghosn of hybrids), and deniers (Lutz/Wagoner of GM). Some of Lutz recent statements:

Climate change is a crock of s..t.
Americans will not buy small cars because gas prices are 3.20/gallon unlike 8 in Europe.
Our products are better, but not perceived as such.

There are more Lutz speak on the internet.
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Old 14th February 2008, 11:56   #105
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I have put links to some of recent articles on Fiat. There were more on Automotive News. I had pasted that here but they got deleted because of copyright (Automotive News is a paid subscription and links do not get you the article).

A car company can make a turn around: Look at Fiat* - May 14, 2007

Fiat's Turnaround Takes Root
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