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Old 28th January 2008, 23:32   #16
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As I mentioned on another thread, Maruti Suzuki can easily sell the 800 and Omni for about Rs.100,000 if they want to compete with the Nano. I mean look at them, they are over 25 years old and nothing really has changed much in that time as well.
So technically, there is zero R&D costs amongst many other cost cutting factors. Also Nano's engine is smaller but more sophisticated than that rubbish 796cc in the Marutis.
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Old 29th January 2008, 00:20   #17
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Coming back to thread posters original question,
Have we been paying more to innovator?

Its a mixed answer isn't it?
One of the most belived reason for TATA to be able to keep costs so low is because of massive volume (domestic and maybe export?) they must be planning and crazy amount of automation that they must have applied at their assembly line to lower manufacturing costs. I won't be surprised to learn that Tata will make losses for first few thousand cars before they break even.

So may be we were/are paying more for 800 but actually we are paying for Maruti's limited volume and less automation compared to TATA's?

NOTE:
I have not seen either TATA or Maruti assembly line in person, my post is based on my experience in both low volume and high volume industry exposure.
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Old 29th January 2008, 02:46   #18
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Whats the point of this thread? Do you wanna prove that 800 was overpriced? I dont think so. Who defines what is reasonable pricing? Maruti charged whatever they thought the 800 was worth. Remember the automobile industry is not regulated on price like the pharma industry. And, there is nothing wrong in a manufacturer charging market rates, even though he might be making a huge profit in the bargain.

And Tata is not going to make a loss on the NANO. They are doing this to get higher sales and thereby higher profits. Too much hype about the Nano right now. Let the dust settle down first. Who knows the car might just be a dud when its actually sold?
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Old 29th January 2008, 08:38   #19
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Not just the 800, but pretty much every car sold in India is overpriced. I can understand that the sale volumes are low compared to mature markets like the US or EU. But the Govt should seriously lower taxes and import duties to at least encourage more manufacturers to set up shop in India.
I know the process has already begun in the last couple of years, but it should have taken place at least a decade back.
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Old 29th January 2008, 09:44   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
Whats the point of this thread? Do you wanna prove that 800 was overpriced? I dont think so. Who defines what is reasonable pricing? Maruti charged whatever they thought the 800 was worth. Remember the automobile industry is not regulated on price like the pharma industry. And, there is nothing wrong in a manufacturer charging market rates, even though he might be making a huge profit in the bargain.

And Tata is not going to make a loss on the NANO. They are doing this to get higher sales and thereby higher profits. Too much hype about the Nano right now. Let the dust settle down first. Who knows the car might just be a dud when its actually sold?

How do you reach at a price. The Basic factors that chip in are

Input costs (including a part of long term investment) + Processing Costs + Transportation Costs + R&D costs + your Profit Margin.

Well. My point is that The nano has had quite a high amount of R&D goint into it. The input costs and transportation costs are quite double in terms of rupee when compared to the 1980's prices. ANd still the Nano is being sold at these prices. Where as in the case of the 800 the R&D was almost zero. The Long term investments were less since it was a very old model and the casts and moulds just had to be replicated (considering they did not transport any old machinery) They had the government backing in a closed economy. And after 20 years of selling that they still charge you above 2L!!! Well that really sounds like "rip" to me from whatever angle i look at it!!
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Old 29th January 2008, 11:14   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srh View Post
From a sales guy at Maruti, I got to know that the 800 has amongst the best margins between the small cars they sell
whoever told that to you srh he is not informed and matured to make such a statement.margins of m-800 is the lowest in the maruti stable and there were times last year when all the dealerships were selling this car at a loss.i know its tough to believe but that is a truth.280 rs loss per car after considering all expenses.


ram
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Old 29th January 2008, 11:49   #22
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Gemithomas - the Nano has a much smaller engine. More importantly, this car has been designed keeping cost in mind. Perhaps, there might be scope to reengineer the 800 to shave off some cost, but no way are the current prices a rip off.

Look around you at any other country in the world, see if you can get a car at the price point of the 800. Also mind you, while the 800 is a small car, it is also a long lasting car. There are many 800's that are over 20 years old and still going strong. So, at that price, its VFM. Ofcourse, once the Nano is out, then one will have to re-evaluate one's options.
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Old 29th January 2008, 12:14   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram_hyundai View Post
whoever told that to you srh he is not informed and matured to make such a statement.margins of m-800 is the lowest in the maruti stable and there were times last year when all the dealerships were selling this car at a loss.i know its tough to believe but that is a truth.280 rs loss per car after considering all expenses.
ram
I reiterate that my information source is a reliable one. When I talk about margins, I am taking about the company and not the dealer.
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Old 29th January 2008, 14:12   #24
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Common guys. Dont sell that to t-bhpians. We all have some idea about what is worth what. I can never believe that maruti sells its 800 at a loss. Leave the 280 figure. even if you say its Re1. I dont think it can ever be true. SOmone must have given you the wrong info.
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Old 29th January 2008, 14:20   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinadha View Post
maruti was initially sold for a price of 43354 INR in 1984-83
If we roll back the inflation for all the 24 years then what will be the value of money at todays prices.

Assuming that Maruti prices went along with the inflation Rs.43354 in 1983-84 is equivalent to Rs. 2,00,000(minimum).

Going by that calculation the Tata Nano if launched in 1983-84 would have costed (43354/200000) * 1.25 = Rs. 27100 approx.
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Old 29th January 2008, 16:20   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemithomas
I can never believe that maruti sells its 800 at a loss.
I think both srh and ram_hyundai might be right. The dealers might not be having much of a margin selling the M800, while MUL must be making good money off it.

On the other hand, if MUL is making such good money from the M800, why would they not share a bit more of it with the dealers ?
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Old 29th January 2008, 21:44   #27
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Default What!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well first of all, lets not compare 800 and Nano. 800 is a complete car with front engine front wheel drive. the front brakes are disc. And the interiors look like they are not just barebones like the mounting of the front seat.

800 has 3 cld engine. Nano has 2 cld. 800 was once sold in Japan as Alto. Try selling Nano in Japan. 800 has proper head rests in front. Nano has none. 800 can be taken on the highway but try that with nano.

Nano is just an affordable but stricly a city transport. You cant dare to touch highway. One can do this in 800.

No car in the world has revolutionized its home market like 800. It was way ahead of it time and has stood the test of time.


I would like to call Nano as a poor man's 800 ( just like Opel Astra was called poor mans Merc). Rear engine and rear drive does save Tata lot of cost.

and remember that Tata Indica was initially targetted at 800 but they failed. 800 as a proper car cannot be touched by anyone in the world.

Ask tata to make a nano for one lakh with
Front Disc, better speedo, front engine, front wheel drive, 3 cld, two wipers, maruti like after sales and service.
And you will come to know what is the real cost.

With due respect I have to add this that Ratan Tata saw just four persons travelling on Scooter.
But did he ever noticed that many Tata indica/indigo breakdown in the middle of the road because of quality problems. Did he ever noticed rust problems. We personally have lost some of our close friends when the entire steering column of Indigo ( under warranty, in fact had just come off service) came lose. Death is not something with which one would lie.
This is truth.


And if Ratan Tata really was worried about making a car for common man, i.e. a cheap and great car, did he ever noticed that most TAta bus are nothing but just seats on truck chasis.
Why not a real bus chasis i.e. affordable and great real bus chasis till now?

Let us not target 800 because it is in another class i.e. higher class.

PS: I dont intent to hurt anyone. This is my view and not targetted at someone.

warm regards,
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Old 29th January 2008, 22:36   #28
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12 inch tyres for m800,no clear lens ,no rear opening for the car (no hatch door),common lets get in to
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Old 29th January 2008, 23:51   #29
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Well, may be have paid more than what it deserved but then any manufacturer would like to capitalize on the market demand.
Look at the Laura, for example, It actually is the newest version OCTAVIA but skoda wants to ride on the octavia's populatity and sell the New one as a completely new car calling it Laura. Check out all editions of OVERDRIVE of 2005 and you'll see that there was a test drive of the re designed OCTAVIA that was suppposed replace the older Octavia, the test drive was done in EUROPE.
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Old 29th January 2008, 23:54   #30
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well.. sorry for being Off Topic. But I couldnt resist replying to unjustified attacks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
....

With due respect I have to add this that Ratan Tata saw just four persons travelling on Scooter.
But did he ever noticed that many Tata indica/indigo breakdown in the middle of the road because of quality problems. Did he ever noticed rust problems. We personally have lost some of our close friends when the entire steering column of Indigo ( under warranty, in fact had just come off service) came lose. Death is not something with which one would lie.
This is truth.

...
PS: I dont intent to hurt anyone. This is my view and not targetted at someone.
Mr. Tata is not reading.. so he cant be hurt...

But didnt he say Nano has undergone crash tests? Are you talking about known experience with Indica?

Also the subject - didnt warrant an attack on Mr. Tata. With Nano, he may not prove that he is ethical or philanthropic. He has certainly proved with belief and conviction one can achieve his dreams. He certainly proved that he has sharp business acumen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
Based on my experience, I doubt TATA and ethics can be mentioned in the same sentence.

I work in IT/Telecom industry, and their offerings are pathetic not only in terms of quality but even with respect to honesty.

Few examples:
TATA INDICOM MOBILE Reviews
TATA INDICOM ADSL BROADBAND Reviews
All, I can say is you know very little about TATA. Keep your complaints formal, recorded and raise it to higher levels. The way the group has been structured - the companies will loose the license to use 'TATA' as a brand if they fail to meet certain criteria.
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