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Old 26th April 2010, 09:33   #391
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Bolero's primary market is rural.

As a personal observation, rural and semi-urban population who once had the ambassadors are liking and buying boleros. DI turbo- yes, it is the USP, a sort of bulletproof reliability when the sound of the UV matches with that of farm tractor.

Bolero DI easily gives 15 kmpl, 14 with AC when driven the way it is meant to be driven. In 2-laned Indian roads 80-100 speeds is the maximum(saner limits) and the bolero's aerodynamics or performance from the lethargic engine doesn't matter so.

People who buy this UV know very well what this vehicle is all about. It doesn't have anything to go gaga over it, but it does its duty well and good. It is robust, reliable and easy on pocket.
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Old 26th April 2010, 09:44   #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
I agree with most of your points actually they are true as well for all the variants except the CRDe which is actually again a Scorpio in Bolero dressing and here is why:
  1. NEF CRDe engine which is doing duty in the Xylo and will be there in the Thar as well.
  2. NGT 530R Gear Box which is the Scorpio gear Box
  3. Drive line i.e the prop shaft and rear Differential is from the Scorpio
  4. Front IFS and Rear Parabolic Leaf Spring are a straight transplant from the 1st gen Scorpio. (The Normal bolero has rigid leaf springs at the rear).
  5. Voice enabled Digital Information System on the Dashboard.
So apart from making a good dadagiri car, it also drives really fast. I suggest TDing one when you are next time in India.
Cheers
Thanks for that information, appreciate it. That's why I had mentioned that I had not test driven the CRDi (CRDe in Mahindra monicker), I will definitely go for a test-drive when I am back (pity, was at home recently, hence was able to check out the new small car launches but didn't try the Bolero CRDe).
I am a little confused with the rear suspension details you mentioned, if you get the time, kindly clarify them for me. What is a rigid leaf spring and how is it different from the Parabolic Leaf spring, by any chance, did you mean a rigid rear axle?
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Originally Posted by Torqy View Post
Does that mean people who drive small cars are feminine and they all wear lipstick? What do you drive?

People buy cars they like.
People buy cars which they can afford.
People make compromises when they choose cars.

Please don't generalize your statements.

-- Torqy
Either you have a really hard time understanding English, or you decided to take offense where none was meant. If it's the second, please read my post again.
I never mentioned that small car owners are feminine (and wear lipstick), on the contrary, the last point pokes fun at people who buy the car just for the image they think it portrays. What is really funny though is that, if someone is making generalizations, I would say it's you (read all your points, they are all "generalizations").

My "list" was for probable reasons for buying a Bolero, I asked teambhp'ians to "enlighten" me about other probable reasons, for which MileCruncher gave a really good answer.

Since you asked, I used to drive a Baleno (before that an 800), and now since I am a student, no-car.
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Old 26th April 2010, 10:07   #393
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Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
Either you have a really hard time understanding English, or you decided to take offense where none was meant. If it's the second, please read my post again.
I never mentioned that small car owners are feminine (and wear lipstick), on the contrary, the last point pokes fun at people who buy the car just for the image they think it portrays. What is really funny though is that, if someone is making generalizations, I would say it's you (read all your points, they are all "generalizations").

My "list" was for probable reasons for buying a Bolero, I asked teambhp'ians to "enlighten" me about other probable reasons, for which MileCruncher gave a really good answer.

Since you asked, I used to drive a Baleno (before that an 800), and now since I am a student, no-car.
Yes, those are THE generalizations....and Dadagiri stuff is THE specifics.

If your list was for probable reasons, how come i couldn't put myself in any of them?

Just because most of the cab drivers drive an Indica / Qualis / Sumo doesn't entitle me to call all Indica owners cab drivers, does it?

BTW, i was not born in UK. But i can fairly read / write / understand English.

Here ends my argument.

-- Torqy
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Old 26th April 2010, 10:26   #394
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My first Bolero drive was in the original Bolero GLX which was a direct derivative of the Armada Grand with some changes thrown in. And for some reason, I was pretty comfortable sitting in the front passenger seat, the middle seat and the driver's seat over bad roads in M.P.

Then, a few years down the line, I had a chance to drive a Bolero DI and that was the worst bolero I had ever driven. Bumpy, crude and haphazard are mild words.

I did take a test drive of the Storm and yes, it does feel better than the DI but somehow did not feel as comfortable as the original new GLX that I had driven. It felt bouncier though peppier.

Am I talking sense here?
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Old 26th April 2010, 10:41   #395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
I am a little confused with the rear suspension details you mentioned, if you get the time, kindly clarify them for me. What is a rigid leaf spring and how is it different from the Parabolic Leaf spring, by any chance, did you mean a rigid rear axle?
My answers to the leaf springs are here http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ite-peace.html (Bolero VLX CRDe 2010 - blanc pour la paix (White For Peace))
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Old 26th April 2010, 10:51   #396
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^^@Milecruncher

Thank you very much for the link, I read the excerpt you'd posted on the thread you quoted. Informative, learnt something new today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqy View Post
Yes, those are THE generalizations....and Dadagiri stuff is THE specifics.
If your list was for probable reasons, how come i couldn't put myself in any of them?
I never claimed that my "list" was comprehensive, and please read my original post again. The all capital typeface that you used didn't say much, and I hope you didn't mean that the reasons you listed were the only possible car buying scenarios (I'd give you more if you want).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqy View Post
Just because most of the cab drivers drive an Indica / Qualis / Sumo doesn't entitle me to call all Indica owners cab drivers, does it?
Here ends my argument.
The list I had given didn't say that all Bolero drivers are cab drivers, rather, it makes sense for the Bolero to be used as a cab. There is quite a lot of difference between the two statements.

If you have any reasons to add to it, or share why you bought the Bolero and what version, that will be more useful than ending the argument.

Last edited by Amartya : 26th April 2010 at 10:55.
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Old 26th April 2010, 11:14   #397
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for short distances yes - even ive experienced similar "leakproof" characteristics in my old shape Maruti 800 DX in 1997/98 in Madras when the whole of the Taramani stretch was pretty badly overflowing with water during a torrential rain. my little maruti was literally wading through with water lapping the bonnet for a bit.
but the distance was very short - only 10-15 metres so no problem.


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Originally Posted by rpmx1000 View Post
That's an interesting question to which I have an equally interesting answer.Two years back or so, I was taking a godforsaken route to Pondicherry from Bangalore via Arcot. Don't ask me why I took that route.I was just crazy that's all trying to find a new "unexplored" route.En route the road had totally gone and a stream had overflowed over the existing road and some repairs were going on. all vehicles had to pass over the stream about 2 feet deep.My Indica turbo did the same. The end result - the water level was above my doors, silencer, A/C duct.The stream was probably about 20 feet wide. I did the cross after a long prayer and nothing happened. I still cannot explain how we managed that- But the point to note here was that no water seeped into the car at all, at least through the doors. I think that would explain why it probably does not happen in these cases.
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Old 26th April 2010, 11:37   #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
^^ The Bolero is really long in the tooth now. It's been in production in many avatars (Armada, Armada Grand, Bolero etc.) and at the end of the day is a pretty crude (though reliable) machine.
It has evolved. From running a crude engine in the Armada to a CRDe now. And it sells like hot cakes. There surely is a big market out there. But then you dont understand that part of how markets work. Have you heard of a company called Maruti it is running a model for 20+ years. It will be a good start for you to understand how a product works for a market. Like you said you are a student so its understood you are a bit wet behind the ears. Its always good to learn. But before making such comments try and enlighten yourselves.

Quote:
Unless someone drives on really bad roads and buys a 4X4 version, I do not see the point of owning this vehicle.
Good point. But then this is India, people like big cars - heard of big Indian families? You should brush up on that too. Have you seen the roads on our highways? You should drive around India and see.

Also a Bolero is not a very safe vehicle if you drive like a moron.

Quote:
To top it all, it now looks worse than the version before it.
Agree on that. I own a square headlight one.

Quote:
People who might consider the Bolero (according to me) are:
Ah... assumptions. You need a lot of learning.

Quote:
a. Taxi owners - The vehicle is quite reliable + diesel. It's not very roomy, but the robustness makes up for it.
Another assumption. There is a brand called TATA in India. They make a model called Sumo. Now that sells like a taxi, hotcakes. This vehicle is even roomier and... you guessed it right runs on a diesel. See you are learning.

The Bolero sells in rural areas where spares availability is an issue. Where if say like a Baleno goes over a rut and breaks its suspension it wont cost them half of the vehicles worth.

Quote:
b. 4X4 users - Either own a farm or offroad quite often, have one car and hence the Bolero with it's A/C and power windows is the only option.
Yes that is correct. But they are a demanding lot too and need a better option.

Quote:
c. The folks who list this car in the "Dadagiri" thread . Basically the "I am more macho than anyone else" kind of folks.
Thats a pure juvenile assumption. I know about 20 owners, most of them are on this forum.

Amongst them are folks who are senior managers in MNCs, major software companies and business man running some very high fundoo business. And each one of them is a gentleman.

Quote:
Before someone blames me for being ignorant, I have driven the Major 4X4 over significant distances (again super crude, but bullet proof Jeep, makes no bones about it)
How was the steering feedback?

Quote:
and have test-driven the Bolero (not the Crdi version though). It's steering is the scariest among all cars I have driven (believe me, zero, zilch steering feedback), it's noisy, has non-existent handling and the ride is bumpy.
Ah... the want of perfection. Try driving a Toyota Fortuner, its right up your ally. Why does one even bother test driving a Bolero.

Stand outside a Bolero and you can make out all the above you have listed you dont even need to take a Test Drive.

Quote:
So, why buy the Bolero?
Come along sometime to a Bangalore Bolero Club memebers meet. We will answer your questions. To put it in here with your preconceived notion about the vehicle just wont make sense to you.

PS: How much would a 2002 model Baleno driven for 1.3 lakh kilometers fetch you in the used car market?

A Bolero of same "vintage" got 3 lakhs.

Last edited by Spitfire : 26th April 2010 at 11:38.
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Old 26th April 2010, 11:58   #399
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Spitfire - enough said man!

you and many others amongst us know for sure that the Bolero is a very good vehicle - there is no doubt about it.

it has never been pretentious, nor has it tried to be anything it is not - (except in the recent past and there only from the cosmetic point of view) - Mahindra's must be employing some real clods in their design team to try and take away from the Bolero's essential no nonsense look.

for the rest, any persons doubts about this vehicle ought to be set right by the sheer numbers it sells (amongst the utility buyer segment) and the fact that even now after all these years, one needs to book and wait a minimum of 3-4 weeks for a new Bolero.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
It has evolved. From running a crude engine in the Armada to a CRDe now. And it sells like hot cakes. There surely is a big market out there. But then you dont understand that part of how markets work. Have you heard of a company called Maruti it is running a model for 20+ years. It will be a good start for you to understand how a product works for a market. Like you said you are a student so its understood you are a bit wet behind the ears. Its always good to learn. But before making such comments try and enlighten yourselves.



Good point. But then this is India, people like big cars - heard of big Indian families? You should brush up on that too. Have you seen the roads on our highways? You should drive around India and see.

Also a Bolero is not a very safe vehicle if you drive like a moron.



Agree on that. I own a square headlight one.



Ah... assumptions. You need a lot of learning.



Another assumption. There is a brand called TATA in India. They make a model called Sumo. Now that sells like a taxi, hotcakes. This vehicle is even roomier and... you guessed it right runs on a diesel. See you are learning.

The Bolero sells in rural areas where spares availability is an issue. Where if say like a Baleno goes over a rut and breaks its suspension it wont cost them half of the vehicles worth.



Yes that is correct. But they are a demanding lot too and need a better option.



Thats a pure juvenile assumption. I know about 20 owners, most of them are on this forum.

Amongst them are folks who are senior managers in MNCs, major software companies and business man running some very high fundoo business. And each one of them is a gentleman.



How was the steering feedback?



Ah... the want of perfection. Try driving a Toyota Fortuner, its right up your ally. Why does one even bother test driving a Bolero.

Stand outside a Bolero and you can make out all the above you have listed you dont even need to take a Test Drive.



Come along sometime to a Bangalore Bolero Club memebers meet. We will answer your questions. To put it in here with your preconceived notion about the vehicle just wont make sense to you.

PS: How much would a 2002 model Baleno driven for 1.3 lakh kilometers fetch you in the used car market?

A Bolero of same "vintage" got 3 lakhs.
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Old 26th April 2010, 12:04   #400
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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Spitfire - enough said man!
Thanks, on second thoughts yes. It was better off not replying.
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Old 26th April 2010, 12:29   #401
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Let's see if I can calm your ruffled feathers. Like they say, it wasn't personal.

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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
It has evolved. From running a crude engine in the Armada to a CRDe now. And it sells like hot cakes. There surely is a big market out there. But then you dont understand that part of how markets work. Have you heard of a company called Maruti it is running a model for 20+ years. It will be a good start for you to understand how a product works for a market. Like you said you are a student so its understood you are a bit wet behind the ears. Its always good to learn. But before making such comments try and enlighten yourselves.
Yes, it has evolved, I never denied that. Milecruncher mentioned some welcome changes, and I acknowledged them. The major market for the Bolero is the rural-market, the number of CRDe Bolero's should be less that the DI (non common rail version). Yes, this is an assumption, as we do not have separate sales numbers for the same. You have to agree that most body panels and the chassis remains the same.

Surprisingly enough, I do know of a company called Maruti, and if you intend to launch a personal attack purely based on the vehicles I have owned, you'll shoot yourself in the foot. Read my posts on the Fiat, Ford and Honda threads for a clue, Maruti comes quite low in the ranks.

Before going of on your patronizing rant, you should understand that before accusing someone of being wet behind the ears and trying the "you are young and immature line", one should test whether that really is the case or not. I have worked professionally for many years (3 of them as a manager for India's premier IT company), and then back to being a student.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Good point. But then this is India, people like big cars - heard of big Indian families? You should brush up on that too. Have you seen the roads on our highways? You should drive around India and see.
Also a Bolero is not a very safe vehicle if you drive like a moron.
Sarcasm doesn't go very far, hopefully, you'll soon realize that. Big Indian families will be happier in a Sumo. More roomy you see.

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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Agree on that. I own a square headlight one.
Phew!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Ah... assumptions. You need a lot of learning.
I am quite happy to learn, much better than the know-it-all's. I think you'll agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Another assumption. There is a brand called TATA in India. They make a model called Sumo. Now that sells like a taxi, hotcakes. This vehicle is even roomier and... you guessed it right runs on a diesel. See you are learning.
The Bolero sells in rural areas where spares availability is an issue. Where if say like a Baleno goes over a rut and breaks its suspension it wont cost them half of the vehicles worth.
Talk about being with your head in the sand. The Bolero sells like "hotcakes" in the taxi market too. Just visit the North Indian hill stations, you'll see quite a few. Also, if you've not noticed, the Sumo sales are not exactly "hotcake" material, check out the sales thread to know what I am talking about.
As far as parts availability is concerned, I am sure Tata is just as ubiquitous. When I had written the point, I thought it was the Mahindra's robustness that helped it score the brownie points.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Thats a pure juvenile assumption. I know about 20 owners, most of them are on this forum.
Amongst them are folks who are senior managers in MNCs, major software companies and business man running some very high fundoo business. And each one of them is a gentleman.
Sure, but I never claimed that your friends were from the 3rd category. It's good to have 20 gentlemen friends, good for you.
However, 20 is a very small sample size, doesn't say anything.

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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
How was the steering feedback?
Please tell me I don't have to explain this point. I tried to distinguish between a Jeep and a personal vehicle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Ah... the want of perfection. Try driving a Toyota Fortuner, its right up your ally. Why does one even bother test driving a Bolero.
I presume you meant alley, otherwise my ally would be hurt. I bothered because I like automobiles, and am quite passionate about cars.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Stand outside a Bolero and you can make out all the above you have listed you dont even need to take a Test Drive.
Not sure how I could stand outside and form my opinion of the handling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Come along sometime to a Bangalore Bolero Club memebers meet. We will answer your questions. To put it in here with your preconceived notion about the vehicle just wont make sense to you.
PS: How much would a 2002 model Baleno driven for 1.3 lakh kilometers fetch you in the used car market? A Bolero of same "vintage" got 3 lakhs.
Instead of trying out your sarcasm skills, had you pointed out a 4th obvious type of owner that I had missed, it would have been more beneficial. The one I mean is, for someone who could afford it, as a second car, is a possibility.
Why on earth even bring the Baleno into the picture?

Last edited by Amartya : 26th April 2010 at 12:31.
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Old 26th April 2010, 12:44   #402
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actually the Sumo is a nice roomy vehicle. and if you remember the mid 90's it was amongst the more comfy long distance utility vehicles around.


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Big Indian families will be happier in a Sumo. More roomy you see.
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Old 26th April 2010, 12:46   #403
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If you dont own the vehicle, have no intention of buying one and dont get why it sells so well why come up with assumptions. Instead learn from 20 odd pages.

I never go and give my "opinions" and create "assumptions" on a Ford, Maruti or Baleno thread.

Like Shankar Balan said nuff said.
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Old 26th April 2010, 12:47   #404
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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
actually the Sumo is a nice roomy vehicle. and if you remember the mid 90's it was amongst the more comfy long distance utility vehicles around.
Definitely, my cousin owned a Sumo DX (remember the version that came out with the Turbo and an A/C? Used to read Auto India then and Hormazd reported on it). We used to go for long trips in that. It was really good.

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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
If you dont own the vehicle, have no intention of buying one and dont get why it sells so well why come up with assumptions.
Because my dear friend, this is a large part of what we do at teambhp. We might not own a vehicle, might not have any intention of buying one (not sure how you deduced that, but it's true, the test drive I took was for my friend) and we "try to get" why a vehicle is popular.
Why come up with assumptions?
Well, call it thinking aloud, and then gaining from collaborative knowledge (quite different from sarcasm I must say). I read most of the pages, then presented my own version, if you disagree, bring something more to the table than empty talk. As a Bolero owner, you would be the person I should look at to provide the best answers.

Last edited by Amartya : 26th April 2010 at 12:56.
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Old 26th April 2010, 15:04   #405
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@ all: i feel amartya's post have been misunderstood by all, maybe because he is against the bolero. if you read his initial posts, he dint actually mean anything that triggered off this debate!

@ amartya: chill my friend, sarcasms are not taken gently sometimes.


Last edited by raj_5004 : 26th April 2010 at 15:11.
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