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Old 12th May 2010, 14:15   #451
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
Also one last point to add- tavera was launched in mid 2004 while the bolero was launched much much before, i think in 2000. so that makes the bolero pretty dated in terms of technology, design, blah blah...

but look at the sales figures. the tavera has almost become extinct & the bolero is leading the MUV sales charts. the bolero still manages to literally chew on tavera's sales.

all said & done, manufacturers makes cars to sell. so ultimately, a car which sells well (for whatever reason it may be) is a good vehicle. people are ready to put down their hard earned money on that vehicle & there SHOULD be some good reasons for it which obviously some who prefer other cars cannot see.
Bolero design is even older than 2000 if you consider the Armada. It is almost the same except few cosmetic changes. Tavera was on its way out, but for Toyota stopping Qualis production. That gave Tavera a 2nd life which it still enjoying.
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Old 12th May 2010, 15:05   #452
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[quote=Spitfire;1881124]Why then are you buying a MM540? Quite surprising for you its made by the same manufacturer M&M. Not by TATA and Chevy. Hope that helps.

because i plan it to use for my business . I have to deliver bulky components and I dont intend to spend more than 40-50 k . Modding the vehicle to my taste would cost another 10-15 k . and i plan it to use within the city and even if it breaks down , I can afford to get my hands greasy . For info purpose .. I do most of the mods , repairs my self at my own makeshift garage .

I understand you dont want to buy a Bolero, dont think of ever owning one. Then why the mud slinging about it being bought by brainless people.

I would , if it was priced lesser . At the price at which it is currently being sold i wont . Even though i wouldnt buy a bolero , i have owned Armadas and the commanders . I have repaired , restored them all by myself . There was no mud slinging . the thread might be read by many other potential buyers and they night be misled about the virtues of owning a bolero . I am trying to point out to the potential buyers that better options do exist


I think you are trolling on this thread and we might have to report it to the MODS. The points you are raising have been argued to death and you still continue your trolling.

Trolling ? then i think you will have to report a lot many people who have valid points against the bolero .

Please open a thread. I love Sumo, I love Tavera and make merry there.
I dont love the sumo as such or the tavera . Infact I have posted some valid points against the sumo on other threads . but , i am not so blind as to overlook good features that are there in those vehicles . I just offered some other manufacturer suggestions .

You are not adding any value on here anyways. You are quite sure why the Bolero should not sell. But it does so either you are wrong or the 8k odd folks who buy the Bolero are wrong. Lets assume you are right. Be happy and have a good nights sleep.

I think most of my posts carry value on the forum . just because i dont sync your thoughts , you have no right to say that my posts do not carry any value . I dont think my posts carry bias towards a manufacturer . Importantly , my posts reflect "my views" and not just views of others . Since i work on modding and repairs , I am not a owner who has bought a car /vehicle and boasts .
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Old 12th May 2010, 15:15   #453
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post

but look at the sales figures. the tavera has almost become extinct & the bolero is leading the MUV sales charts. the bolero still manages to literally chew on tavera's sales.

all said & done, manufacturers makes cars to sell. so ultimately, a car which sells well (for whatever reason it may be) is a good vehicle. people are ready to put down their hard earned money on that vehicle & there SHOULD be some good reasons for it which obviously some who prefer other cars cannot see.
Nope the tavera sales is quite strong . After the BS4 implementation I read somewhere that they are in no hurry to launch the BS4 version because they are not able to meet the demand . They are selling well and they have about a months delivery time period .

GM lost initially with the brand name and tavera was launched at that point of time . and the tavera does a solid 18km/hr on the highways with 100% a/c and that has become its strongest selling point .

I would strongly say that sales has got nothing to do with product acceptability . case in the point would be aveo , cruze , fusion palio , punto ... and so on .
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Old 12th May 2010, 16:15   #454
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Originally Posted by greatmana2000 View Post
Nope the tavera sales is quite strong . After the BS4 implementation I read somewhere that they are in no hurry to launch the BS4 version because they are not able to meet the demand . They are selling well and they have about a months delivery time period.
Well, this is one point which is hard to digest. The Tavera sold 1528 vehicles in April which was the lowest compared to the Sumo/Grande, the Xylo and the Bolero. So, sales certainly don't seem to be hitting the roof and if GM is not able to meet the demand and produce more than 1600 vehicles in a month, they seriously need to ramp up production.

No hurry to launch BS4?? It is mandatory to do so if they want to sell it in those 14 cities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
When did Bolero become an SUV?
Good one there.
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Old 12th May 2010, 16:32   #455
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Originally Posted by greatmana2000 View Post
because i plan it to use for my business .
Get a TATA Ace instead second hand. Why bother with a 540? (If you can understand the sentence. If not, then I am in noway asking you to buy a TATA Ace or think its better. I am using your analogy to why buy Bolero when better options exist. Hope you get the analogy)

Quote:
I would , if it was priced lesser . At the price at which it is currently being sold i wont .

So your issue is only the cost at which it sells. Not with anthing to do with the vehicle perse?

We all want everything cheaper. I want Fortuner for 5 lakhs. But it wont come to that price. So do I say I have better options for Safari and Scorpio because they cost half the price of the Fortuner? Get the point?

Its a market driven by demand and supply. Pure Economics. Hard luck you think the Bolero is priced high. I think the same about Fortuner but I dont go saying those who bought it are brainless.

Quote:
the thread might be read by many other potential buyers and they night be misled about the virtues of owning a bolero .

Where is the misleading part? You and others who assume that the vehicle should not sell the way it does dont have an answer as to why it does.

Quote:
I am trying to point out to the potential buyers that better options do exist

Yes, everyone knows that. But no one goes bad mouthing the product they cant afford.

Quote:
Trolling ? then i think you will have to report a lot many people who have valid points against the bolero .

All valid points against the Bolero have been accepted. Your bone of contention is why does it still sell at that price point. Going to the extent of calling people who buy them idiots or brainless. That is trolling. Your English being bad is not an excuse.

Quote:
I just offered some other manufacturer suggestions

Look at the thread heading and the first thread. This is not a Bolero buyers guide.

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I am not a owner who has bought a car /vehicle and boasts .

No one boasts here. Hell none of the Bolero owners are boasting here. Most of them are humble people just like their vehicles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
When did Bolero become an SUV?
Saar, please read the whole thread Saar. If it is too much of a pain. Let me tell you the SUV debate has been done to death here. Please dont start another round just for your kicks and wasting other people time.

FYI, none of the Bolero owners think its an SUV. Go figure?
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Old 12th May 2010, 16:36   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
When did Bolero become an SUV?
There it goes again

Read this thread from the beginning again, you will get some clue who said it is an SUV and who said it is not an SUV

But you may also see these

Mid size SUV | Mid size Sports Utility Vehicle : Mahindra Bolero
Mahindra Bolero, Mahindra Bolero SUV Model, Mahindra Bolero Price, Mahindra Bolero Features in India, Mahindra Bolero Colours
Mahindra Bolero continues to be No 1 SUV fourth time in a row - dnaindia.com
Mahindra Bolero: Best Selling SUV Car Award for 4th Successive Year | Indian Cars & Motorcycles Blog

Still not sure....Search Bolero SUV on google.. You will find at least 50 more links and decide for yourself based on your logic.
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Old 12th May 2010, 16:51   #457
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That squarish tata sumo di which you are referring to has a raised big leaf at the back, looking like it will upset itself on hard braking. Also the tavera with ac and power steering comes around 8.5 lakhs on road, so it is improper to compare both these with the workhorse bolero.
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Old 12th May 2010, 17:12   #458
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Bangalore Prices as of today: All exshowroom

Top End Models:

Tavera D1 - Rs 993125/-

Tata Sumo Victa DI GX - Rs 640428/-

Tata Sumo Victa IDI GX - Rs 673743/-

Bolero VLX - Rs 668559/-

In the top end model the Sumo Victa DI GX costs Rs 28k lesser then the Bolero VLX. But it comes with a 70bhp engine.

Mr greatmana was quite amused that Bolero owners spend 6-7 lakhs for a 70 odd bhp vehicle. Who is the joke on now, sir?

Lowest End Models:

Tavera B1 - Rs 629438/-

Tata Sumo Victa DI LX - Rs 564426/-

Tata Sumo Victa IDI LX - Rs 535147/-

Bolero DI - Rs 518945/-

In the low end there is no competion when it comes to VFM.

Now what makes sense?

Hope this helps in understanding "WHY?" Bolero sells the way it sells.

Its nowhere costly compared to the other competition.

Last edited by Spitfire : 12th May 2010 at 17:15.
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Old 12th May 2010, 17:37   #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatmana2000 View Post
Nope the tavera sales is quite strong . After the BS4 implementation I read somewhere that they are in no hurry to launch the BS4 version because they are not able to meet the demand . They are selling well and they have about a months delivery time period .

GM lost initially with the brand name and tavera was launched at that point of time . and the tavera does a solid 18km/hr on the highways with 100% a/c and that has become its strongest selling point .

I would strongly say that sales has got nothing to do with product acceptability . case in the point would be aveo , cruze , fusion palio , punto ... and so on .
as devdath said, if the tavera sells 1500 units compared to the 5000+ units of a bolero, then bolero surely does enjoy an advantage.

does sales reflect how good a vehicle is? well, its a really debatable topic. i feel it certainly does.

as i said before, manufacturer makes cars to sell, dont they? so where has GM gone wrong with the tavera that it does not sell as much as a bolero? or in other words, for the customers or the indian public, there is something good about the bolero compared to a sumo or bolero, that is the reason they are buying it right?

Last edited by raj_5004 : 12th May 2010 at 17:40.
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Old 12th May 2010, 18:38   #460
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Get a TATA Ace instead second hand. Why bother with a 540? (If you can understand the sentence. If not, then I am in noway asking you to buy a TATA Ace or thaink its better. I am using your analogy to why buy Bolero when better options exist. Hope you get the analogy)
analogy understood , but agiain if the ace was avaliable for 40-50k , then i would consider it . plus , I dont think i will drive a tata ace if my driver goes on leave .

Quote:
So your issue is only the cost at which it sells. Not with anthing to do with the vehicle perse? cost , quality , features .. please read my earlier posts . You seem to have a knack of just reading the last post and forgetting the previous posts .

We all want everything cheaper. I want Fortuner for 5 lakhs. But it wont come to that price. So do I say I have better options for Safari and Scorpio because they cost half the price of the Fortuner? Get the point?
I would agree , but again ppl compare features , and would like to pay a premium for the product which is well engineered .
Everyone on team-bhp thinks ford has priced the figo nicely and I too think the same . So we surely know whether it is worth or not worth .

Its a market driven by demand and supply. Pure Economics. Hard luck you think the Bolero is priced high. I think the same about Fortuner but I dont go saying those who bought it are brainless.

Yes , market is driven by demand and supply . But , I am talking about other options as well . You didnt quite seem to the get the point or you are just plain adamant .


Quote:
Where is the misleading part? You and others who assume that the vehicle should not sell the way it does dont have an answer as to why it does.
I have answered it scores of times . please read earlier posts .



Quote:
Yes, everyone knows that. But no one goes bad mouthing the product they cant afford.
LOL , It isnt a question of affordability as I have already owned the previous versions .
Quote:
All valid points against the Bolero have been accepted. Your bone of contention is why does it still sell at that price point. Going to the extent of calling people who buy them idiots or brainless. That is trolling. Your English being bad is not an excuse.
You are just trying to repeat the same thing again and again . This is what i call .... . I have already tendered an apology . If you dont have valid points to post .. please

Quote:
Look at the thread heading and the first thread. This is not a Bolero buyers guide.
Who said it was a buyers guide ? or not a buyers guide ? Prospective buyers are bound to read and it may or not help them .
Quote:
No one boasts here. Hell none of the Bolero owners are boasting here. Most of them are humble people just like their vehicles.
Some people like vehicles , some like watches , some like choclates . people who like vehicles ,first time buyers , owners who would like to get inputs on maintenance , etc sign up for sites like team -bhp . So you are not the only one here .[/quote]

Last edited by Eddy : 12th May 2010 at 22:28. Reason: corrected the quotes
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Old 12th May 2010, 18:40   #461
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Originally Posted by ramzsys View Post
That squarish tata sumo di which you are referring to has a raised big leaf at the back, looking like it will upset itself on hard braking. Also the tavera with ac and power steering comes around 8.5 lakhs on road, so it is improper to compare both these with the workhorse bolero.


That would be an alteration done and not really from the company to carry extra weight . The suspension has been improved a lot and the vehicle is firmly planted and sure does nice speeds steadily .
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Old 12th May 2010, 18:51   #462
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[quote=Spitfire;1882102]Bangalore Prices as of today: All exshowroom

Top End Models:

Tavera D1 - Rs 993125/-

Tata Sumo Victa DI GX - Rs 640428/-

Tata Sumo Victa IDI GX - Rs 673743/-

Bolero VLX - Rs 668559/-

In the top end model the Sumo Victa DI GX costs Rs 28k lesser then the Bolero VLX. But it comes with a 70bhp engine.

Have you bothered to find out the torque of respective vehicles ?
Plus you are blindly comparing prices when you ought to compare features side by side .
please check out tavera website sumo website and bolero website for features list .

Mr greatmana was quite amused that Bolero owners spend 6-7 lakhs for a 70 odd bhp vehicle. Who is the joke on now, sir?

Lowest End Models:

Tavera B1 - Rs 629438/-

Tata Sumo Victa DI LX - Rs 564426/-

Tata Sumo Victa IDI LX - Rs 535147/-

Bolero DI - Rs 518945/-

In the low end there is no competion when it comes to VFM.

I am totally lost on the pricing . You are quoting something lower that what a festara costs .. lol

Now what makes sense?
I have already pointed out well engineered products are costlier as well . hmmmmz
Hope this helps in understanding "WHY?" Bolero sells the way it sells.

I think your personality reflects your handle .. hmm
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Old 12th May 2010, 21:34   #463
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@ greatmana2000 The price quoted is correct, it is the price for a DI version(not SLE/SLX)- this is the non AC, non- PS version. Even the tavera lacks the same features.

It is better to compare the tavera with the plus version- the 10 seater long chassis version,
PLUS 5,51,404
PLUS AC 5,94,227

power steering optional. Also, the sumo victa DI or the spacio DI right from the showroom has a dip forward, reasons i have heard from front engine weight dip and also usage of heavy leaf spring at the back(so as under load vehicle rides horizontally). Check at the showroom.
But i like the Di engine of the tata also, mainly for its torque engine.

Last edited by ramzsys : 12th May 2010 at 21:42.
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Old 12th May 2010, 22:29   #464
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I have edited / deleted off topic posts on this thread.

Please let the debate remain a healthy one. Kindly keep out the personal attacks.


Last edited by Eddy : 12th May 2010 at 22:50.
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Old 12th May 2010, 23:27   #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatmana2000 View Post
but agiain if the ace was avaliable for 40-50k
Ok so the pricing of the ACE also is too high for you. We have a pattern here and quite obviously we all know the ACE sells well too.

Quote:
I would agree , but again ppl compare features , and would like to pay a premium for the product which is well engineered.
So why buy the Bolero or argue about its worth.

Quote:
Everyone on team-bhp thinks ford has priced the figo nicely and I too think the same . So we surely know whether it is worth or not worth .
After sales and parts cost of Ford?

Quote:
Yes , market is driven by demand and supply . But , I am talking about other options as well.
Options exist. But the Bolero sells 3 to 4 times the options. The options are surely not good enough for the price. Simple.

Quote:
You didnt quite seem to the get the point or you are just plain adamant .
LOL no I think you have a personal grudge against the product and the people who buy it. You did make personal statements to that affect. Saying sorry though does not cover it up.

Quote:
I have answered it scores of times . please read earlier posts .
You should have started reading from the start of the thread instead. We wouldnt have to repeat everything again.

What you are saying is not rocket science lot of folks here have had the same queries.

Quote:
LOL , It isnt a question of affordability as I have already owned the previous versions .
They were affordable compared to what?

Quote:
You are just trying to repeat the same thing again and again .
What you have been going about since your first post is a reptition of what has already been said. LOL. Please read the entire thread.

Quote:
Prospective buyers are bound to read and it may or not help them .
Seems prospective buyers will still be buying the Bolero lets come back next month and check the sales reports. Then lets see whether your personal triade against the vehicle has born fruit or not.

Quote:
Some people like vehicles , some like watches , some like choclates . people who like vehicles ,first time buyers , owners who would like to get inputs on maintenance , etc sign up for sites like team -bhp . So you are not the only one here .
Ok and the point is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greatmana2000 View Post
Have you bothered to find out the torque of respective vehicles ?
Ok here we go:

Tavera: 186.2 Nm @ 1800 RPM (only one engine available)

Sumo Victa DI: 223Nm @ 1600 - 2200 rpm

Sumo Victa IDI 2.0L: 115 Nm (RPM range not available)

Sumo Victa IDI 2.0L TCIC: 190 Nm (RPM range not available)

Bolero VLX CRDe: 255 Nm @ 1800-2200 RPM

Bolero XD3P: 137.5 Nm @ 2000-2500 RPM (Mine is rated at 155.5 Nm but this is latest value available on the website)

Bolero DI Turbo: 180 NM @ 1500-1800 RPM

Please see which vehicle has the highest and which vehicles have the lowest then compare the price list for the same vehicles.

The inference is for all to see.

So your more torque for less money is frivolous attempt of someone who knows jack about any of the above products.

Quote:
Plus you are blindly comparing prices when you ought to compare features side by side .
please check out tavera website sumo website and bolero website for features list .
Ok I did.

The topend Tavera has these over the Bolero VLX top end:
  1. Front Fog Lamps
  2. Chrome Door Handles
  3. Chrome Rear License Garnish
  4. Root Wood finish gear knob
  5. 2 Tone Interior Theme
  6. Wood finish on Instrument Panel
  7. Leather wrapped steering wheel
  8. Spare Wheel under Floor (HA HA HA Tavera mentions that LOL)
  9. Dual Horn
  10. Dual Glove Boxes
  11. Lockable Glove Box (My GLX has it though)
  12. Captain Seats in 2nd Row
  13. Arm rests and Lumbar support in first 2 row seats
    Sliding and Reclining 2nd Row of Seats
  14. Tilt Quarter Windows
  15. 2/3 Rows Air Conditioning
Points 12,13,14 and 15 are certainly an advantage. But then look at the price difference between both Rs 324566 at Exshowroom price.

Will someone buy an MUV like a Tavera at 10+ lakhs on road for the above luxuries? This is Innova territory and compared to the Innova, the Tavera is a... I will let you make that out LOL.

Coming to Tata Sumo. These are the features over what they provide on the Bolero VLX.
  1. Roof AC
  2. Internally operated ORVM
  3. Digital clock
  4. Rear wiper. Washer & defogger
  5. Tachometer (I think its available on the VLX)
  6. Front fog lamps
  7. Rear fog lamps
All very much required in the Bolero. And the price is almost the same (I am not factoring in the discount) but the Sumo loses out on torque LOL a factor that you consider.

Quote:
I am totally lost on the pricing . You are quoting something lower that what a festara costs .. lol
Look at the website for the prices. Also subtract Rs 45k from the VLX pricing, its having a discount presently.

It seems you have a personal grudge for the vehicle and its owners. You even go so far as not believing the price being so low.

I think you have been had here as your logic that it is costly to buy has been turned on its head. You actually think that the prices quoted above are for the Festra a much cheaper vehicle at no features. This is so hilarious. Get the point?

I will no longer waste my time on this as it has been revealed that you have no experience about the vehicle, its cost, its specifications or its market value.

Quote:
I think your personality reflects your handle .. hmm
LOL even if I try to explain you wont get it. So please dont get personal.

I am out of this now. I am sure the data I presented above will carry immense value to this thread as to why Bolero sells so well.

Last edited by Spitfire : 12th May 2010 at 23:33.
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