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Old 9th February 2008, 00:14   #46
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G Punto - unpopular brand?
Dude, its time for you to refer the dictionary

Brand = Fiat = unpopular in India

The GP may be famous worldwide, but that doesnot gurantee its success here. Ford sells lots of cars in Europe but here it hardly sells.

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If only Fiat India had access to such true and profound thoughts.
If Fiat India used Michelin tires, they could have met Irags one day but sigh.......!

Last edited by BUSA : 9th February 2008 at 00:17.
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Old 9th February 2008, 00:14   #47
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Originally Posted by iraghava View Post

They have to remember that in our market a product sells well in two cases: 1. If the customer percieves it to be a good product & VFM & 2. If the customer percieves it to be a premium product worthy of flaunting irrespective of the pricing.

We can safely leave out option 2 for now given what has been happening to Fiat over the past few years in our market so the logical route for them to go is to bring out a good product which is also VFM & attracts the customers to the showrooms. Premium pricing will not cut the mustard.

If only Fiat India had access to such true and profound thoughts.
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Old 9th February 2008, 00:23   #48
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Originally Posted by finneyp View Post
G Punto - unpopular brand?
Pls do a search for Grande Punto on the net & then let us know if it is popular or unpopular!

Dream on....!
fiat MAY have great cars but brand is fiat and they are not popular. similar to daewoo or dahitsu elsewhere or opel in india

Another strategy they can try is rebadge these in another name. maybe have maruti or gm sell their cars.
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Old 9th February 2008, 00:27   #49
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maybe have maruti or gm sell their cars.
Or have Maruti sell their engine as in the Swift
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Old 9th February 2008, 00:34   #50
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Or have Maruti sell their engine as in the Swift
that is already happening...but we also want fiat cars with top qlty service and reasonable price.
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Old 9th February 2008, 00:42   #51
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Originally Posted by LLL View Post
that is already happening...but we also want fiat cars with top qlty service and reasonable price.
If Fiat can do this and do it over an extended time period, I am sure that it will be in a much better position in India than it is now.

In short, there will be a lot more "finneyp"s around.
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Old 9th February 2008, 02:30   #52
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Another strategy they can try is rebadge these in another name. maybe have maruti or gm sell their cars.
I think its going to be really difficult for any company to market FIAT cars when they have their own cars in the same segment. There will always be a bias and FIAT will definitely not benefit as much.

Even though TATA are marketing the Palio there is not much clash with its own Indica range since only the petrol models are available. They did not want to market the old Palio D fearing it could damage Indica sales.

We have to wait and see how Tata market Palio MJD and Indica Quadrijet side by side...


On the GP though, I believe they could price the petrol version above the Swift/Getz but the diesel version can not be priced above the Getz if they want to sell any. The diesel should be pricier than the Swift which would be correct as it will have more space and will be a much bigger car.
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Old 9th February 2008, 02:40   #53
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The Grande Punto sure does look Yummy.

Source - User:Luc106 - Wikimedia Commons
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Old 9th February 2008, 02:54   #54
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Originally Posted by finneyp View Post
If some one wants a Premium hatch with ABS & Airbags priced < 5 lacs, that is sheer daydreaming!
A so-called Premium hatch will never have good sales volume in our market man. Our market values one mantra above anything else in high volume segments & it's called VFM. Which sadly to say the GP is not going to be if priced at the projected price levels.

If you want proof of how "Premium" hatches do in our market, look at the sales figures for the SR-V, Fusion & Fusion D. All 3 have done quite badly despite being good products. What let them down?? First & foremost pricing. There is a good lesson for Fiat India to learn there.

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Rightly said my friend. For someone, upgrading from a 100cc bike to lets say M800 can all together be a matter of pride, while for others it might be just another small car.
Same is the case with the GP as well.
Well Dhaval agree with you it's all about perception since for most people neither is the 100cc bike a status symbol & nor is the M800. Both are tools designed to do a job.

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Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
The term "Premium" is closely related to the market. When you have hatchbacks selling from 2.2L ones (Maruti 800) to 7L ones (Fabia), Fabia or Punto are indeed premium hatchbacks. In fact when Getz was launched, they clearly made it as premium hatch against Santro, which is economy model.
Ok but can you also see how Getz has not done well compared to its better priced competition like the Swift?? Do you think that's because it is an inferior product?? No, it's because it's not priced correctly & thus does not appear to the buying public as a VFM proposition.

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Originally Posted by theMAG View Post
If only Fiat India had access to such true and profound thoughts.
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Originally Posted by BUSA View Post
If Fiat India used Michelin tires, they could have met Irags one day but sigh.......!
Thank you boys! But Michelin is not OE on any of the mainstream brands in our market today (apart from top of the line stuff like BMW, Merc, Porsche etc.) but is soon going to be OE on one of our volume car makers products! That's all I can reveal right now!
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Old 9th February 2008, 03:10   #55
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Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
If they start the stupid pricing path ala GM & Hyundai (in some cases) it will NOT help their recovery plans one bit. The only gainer in that case will be TATA as they'll get the volume segment while Fiat will be left twiddling their thumbs (again).

They have to remember that in our market a product sells well in two cases: 1. If the customer percieves it to be a good product & VFM & 2. If the customer percieves it to be a premium product worthy of flaunting irrespective of the pricing.

We can safely leave out option 2 for now given what has been happening to Fiat over the past few years in our market so the logical route for them to go is to bring out a good product which is also VFM & attracts the customers to the showrooms. Premium pricing will not cut the mustard.
and this is why i think they are launching the Linea first,so that atleast their brand image gets a little elevated.If they were to launch the punto first,people will again relate the punto to the palio and will not even consider punto.
by bringing in the Linea,Bravo and 500,they are improving their brand image so that people can be receptive of their higher pricing for the Punto.
Considering its Fiat,at 6lacs or more,the Punto will have all the bells and whistles...
Just read in some magazine that Fiat has switched over to a new marketing company which will handle all the print ads,tv adverts etc..
I'm crossing my fingers!
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Old 9th February 2008, 04:11   #56
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Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
A so-called Premium hatch will never have good sales volume in our market man. Our market values one mantra above anything else in high volume segments & it's called VFM. Which sadly to say the GP is not going to be if priced at the projected price levels.

If you want proof of how "Premium" hatches do in our market, look at the sales figures for the SR-V, Fusion & Fusion D. All 3 have done quite badly despite being good products. What let them down?? First & foremost pricing. There is a good lesson for Fiat India to learn there.
You're trying to conduct a sensible debate with the F boys?! Kya Ishan, lots of free time these days.

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If only Fiat India had access to such true and profound thoughts.
If only Fiat India had access to thoughts, more likely.

I'd like to reiterate this opportunity to thank Fiat India for the GP, its true beauty and class, its freshness, its premium-ness, its stonker of an engine, and the fact that they've been delaying a while and will probably delay it further. It's easy when your brain shares space with your butt.
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Old 9th February 2008, 05:16   #57
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Originally Posted by BUSA View Post
And Fiat is just a car company, but you should not go overboard with your obssession for it. Call a orange, a orange, an a apple, a apple.
You've got it wrong there. Call an orange, an orange. An apple, please call it an apple.

But a Fiat - you gotta be kidding if you dont call it a Tank.

Jokes apart, the news (if indeed it is true) is quite a disappointment. Fiat must realize that it needs to sell to the larger population and not (just) to its fanbase. A lot of people here may be convinced that the pricing is okay, but a majority of them are those that plonked their money for a 1.2 Palio and not even the 1.6, 100 bhp, 16 valve, torque machine.

Perhaps a stripped down 1.1 Grande Punto at < 5 lakhs with no airbags or abs is just what the doc ordered? With those engine specs, it will surely move like a Tank.

Tank you for hearing me out!

Last edited by Steeroid : 9th February 2008 at 05:18.
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Old 9th February 2008, 10:42   #58
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Arey so much of excitement and arguements over a car thats to be launched in the last quarter of the year?

And all these arguements are over media reports? Come on guys, we all know how efficient our media is specially with regards to the auto industry. It was AutoCar India that came out with a report that Fiat was planning a shock pricing for the GP (Rs.5.5 lacs) and Linea (6.5 lacs) and we got all excited and started saluting Fiat. Now another news article says Fiat may price the GP above Swift and we are busy writing our good bye's to Fiat. Let's not behave like our news anchors that get so excitied over any silly breaking news that they start talking at 500 wpm.

The Fiat India MD has said that they may price the GP over Swift. Thats it. Did he say how much higher they are going to price it? There could be so many possiblities on that statement.

1.) Maybe they will bring out three variants against the three variants of the Swift and price each at about Rs.20-25K above the Swift. Would that be premium? Yes, maybe. Is that so high a price over the Swift? Definately not. At least not for the GP. Whatever the car maybe, it will look extremely stylish and premium. It's got a Masaerati inspired front end for heavens sake! Indians have'nt seen anything like it in a hatch. While the Europeans are used to looking at hatchbacks that look like D segment cars, Indians are not. We don't have the VW Golf, Peugeot 307/207 etc etc. Yes the Fabia is here, but we all know it doesn't look that premium or large. The GP is actually Grande in size, even the Europeans say that so for India it's surely going to be XXL size. We all agree that in India big size = higher price. Indians accept that. There are no arguments over the fact that GP is going to be bigger and roomier then Swift. Add better, premium looks, better finish and build quality and a slight premium seems justified. Of course, the GP will never outsell the Swift, no matter what the price and features and no matter the fact that it may actually be better then the Swift. There, again, is no arguement over that fact too.

2.) We keep forgetting that Fiat isn't alone now. Everything they do has to be done keeping their dominant partners in mind. Surely, the Indica V3 will be priced lower then the Swift. Thats for sure. So the GP HAS to be have a fair price diffrential over the Indica or else both these cars will fight among themselves and the Swift and Getz will laugh all the way out of showrooms.

3.) Maybe Fiat will actually try and present the car as a premium car. Thats why they are bringing in the Fiat 500 and Bravo to India. These cars are being brought in not so Fiat can sell them and make money but as a showcase of what Fiat is capable of. Only the full loaded top end variants will here sold here with all the blue and me tech stuff so Fiat can brag about how tech savy they are.

4.) Maybe Fiat is just testing the waters by releasing news reports like this. Remember, the car is still months away from launch. Depending on how prospective buyers react to such news and to the Fabia, Fiat will fine tune the features and pricing of the GP.

5.) Fiat will also see the response their Palio MJD and more importantly the Linea get from our market before deciding for sure what pricing strategy they wish to adopt.

6.) The news report also in it's last line says that premium hatch segment is growing while the entry level hatch segment seems to be stagnating. Maybe the answer to Fiat's pricing of the GP is in that line?

So like you see, there are so many possiblities. Let's not argue and debate so early over this. Let the launch come closer and things will be more clear.

But yea, the report says Fiat will try to sell the car as a lifestyle product. If they actually do this then it bloody well be loaded then. Many cars have two airbags now, Fiat's lifestyle car will have to go the extra mile and give us curtain bags too. And it's only natural to expect a lifestyle car to have Blue&Me, isnt' it?

Last edited by amit : 9th February 2008 at 10:52.
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Old 9th February 2008, 16:16   #59
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Ok but can you also see how Getz has not done well compared to its better priced competition like the Swift?? Do you think that's because it is an inferior product?? No, it's because it's not priced correctly & thus does not appear to the buying public as a VFM proposition.
I was explaining about these cars (Fabia/Punto....) being called premium hatches in Indian Market. Not about pricing of GP against Getz or being VFM product. Car per car, there is no doubt GP will be rated higher than Swift/Getz. Making it a sales success is another story.
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Old 10th February 2008, 04:43   #60
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I know one thing, here in Belgium, they recently launched Grande Punto for 12,795 Euros.
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