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Old 15th March 2010, 22:50   #181
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Originally Posted by sanjayc View Post
I stand corrected. But isn't there additional levies/cess on diesel engines compared to petrol engines? Or, is it purely a matter of higher production cost?
The Kirit Parekh panel report is just about out, and I don't think it is implemented yet. If implemented, it will add about a lakh to the current ex-showroom process of Diesel cars, to offset the higher subsidy Diesel fuel currently has.

The subsidy discussion, IIRC, is happening in a different thread (remember seeing it a long time back!). But I think Parekh panel's recommendations may take a while to be implemented, and that too may have several confusions - Diesel taxi vs personal car, personal small car vs personal luxury car, etc.

Until then, the reason for higher price of a Diesel variant of a model will be because of the higher costs to manufacture a modern Diesel engine, and of course the higher margin manufacturers enjoy on a Diesel car, thanks to the demand!

Slightly OT: Why is a V2 Indica DLS (475 IDI, non Turbo) priced higher than a comparitive petrol Indica V2? I am not sure how much the difference was, but there was a sizeable difference. The 475 IDI is a simple engine which did not even have an ECU in the early days! The engine block being thicker alone attributed to a price difference? Or Tata made some nice profits there??!
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Old 16th March 2010, 11:30   #182
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Originally Posted by ph03n!x View Post
The Kirit Parekh panel report is just about out, and I don't think it is implemented yet. If implemented, it will add about a lakh to the current ex-showroom process of Diesel cars, to offset the higher subsidy Diesel fuel currently has.

The subsidy discussion, IIRC, is happening in a different thread (remember seeing it a long time back!). But I think Parekh panel's recommendations may take a while to be implemented, and that too may have several confusions - Diesel taxi vs personal car, personal small car vs personal luxury car, etc.

Until then, the reason for higher price of a Diesel variant of a model will be because of the higher costs to manufacture a modern Diesel engine, and of course the higher margin manufacturers enjoy on a Diesel car, thanks to the demand!

Slightly OT: Why is a V2 Indica DLS (475 IDI, non Turbo) priced higher than a comparitive petrol Indica V2? I am not sure how much the difference was, but there was a sizeable difference. The 475 IDI is a simple engine which did not even have an ECU in the early days! The engine block being thicker alone attributed to a price difference? Or Tata made some nice profits there??!
Looks like profits to me. IIRC, the engine block (at least in the V1) was the same for petrol and diesel. Changes were only to the head due to the difference in fuel.
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Old 16th March 2010, 11:39   #183
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IMO diesel fuel prices are kept artificially low while diesel car prices artificially high! More than anything, margins play a huge role in the price difference between petrol and diesel engined cars,
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Old 16th March 2010, 13:56   #184
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The price difference between the Indica V2 Petrol and Diesel variants was about 20K for the same level of trim. This was back in 2005 when I went in for the Diesel avatar. (Me and bro were contemplating buying the Petrol model at a point of time, but felt that if we buy Diesel, we will use AC and the Stereo always. How very true )

To me, this was a sum which gave an assurance of the lowest cost diesel, frugal fuel consumption, and an overly generous interior (at that time). 5 years down the line, some points stand firm even today.

The additional amount feels justified for a slightly heavier block, glow plugs, injectors, and the related machinery. All of it even in lieu of the Petrol machinery
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Old 16th March 2010, 15:40   #185
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@indianv2 - 20k? Are you sure?? Because I bought my Indica V2 DLX in March 2005, and the comparative petrol version was much costlier than 20k IIRC!
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Old 16th March 2010, 16:21   #186
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@ph03n!x: Yes, the difference was 20K only. This was across most variants, give or take a couple of thousands. And I write this with respect to the Euro III models too.
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Old 16th March 2010, 17:18   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjayc View Post
I stand corrected. But isn't there additional levies/cess on diesel engines compared to petrol engines? Or, is it purely a matter of higher production cost?
Quote:
Originally Posted by indianv2 View Post
@ph03n!x: Yes, the difference was 20K only. This was across most variants, give or take a couple of thousands. And I write this with respect to the Euro III models too.
The current Indica V2 DLS Euro III is coming for 3,23,242 ex-showroom, Madras. And the Xeta GLS is coming for 3,20,130 ex-showroom.

The Indica V2 LSi (Pre-Xeta, the one with the same engine block as Diesel Indica) was about 35-40k costlier (ex-showroom Madras). Will dig out the quote I got in 2005 (if I can still find it )

Well, I guess we are going OT here. So... Peace
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Old 16th March 2010, 18:02   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indianv2 View Post
The price difference between the Indica V2 Petrol and Diesel variants was about 20K for the same level of trim. This was back in 2005 when I went in for the Diesel avatar. (Me and bro were contemplating buying the Petrol model at a point of time, but felt that if we buy Diesel, we will use AC and the Stereo always. How very true )

To me, this was a sum which gave an assurance of the lowest cost diesel, frugal fuel consumption, and an overly generous interior (at that time). 5 years down the line, some points stand firm even today.

The additional amount feels justified for a slightly heavier block, glow plugs, injectors, and the related machinery. All of it even in lieu of the Petrol machinery
Absolutely. I do not understand, but somehow the cost of diesel and its fuel efficieny (across all brands/models) makes you to go for it eventhough your average KM/month is relatively lower or cannot be justified.

Diesel vehicles makes you to drive more also.
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Old 16th March 2010, 18:59   #189
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Originally Posted by DieselAddikt View Post
Exactly. A common man or a usual commuter will not feel the need to buy a diesel car. But for a person like me who likes to drive, probably the only thing that would hold me back would be the huge fuel bill. With a diesel machine in the porch, that is no more a deterrent. So diesel cars do tend to run more. My previous petrol car ran only 40K kms in 3 years, but the new diesel one has already done 10K in four months. And the thing is, the total fuel bill for the new car would be just over 20K INR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srinivasmhn View Post
I have completed 53K Kms on my Indica for last 22 months, decided upon Indica , the other choice was Wagon-R Duo. Tank full for around Rs 1200/- bring smiles back. And also with the tax slab expected for the diesel vehicles should give me better resale value when I want sell it.
It is true that with diesel vehicle we tend to drive more.
since the recurring expense (fuel filling - which is done more times than service expense) is cheaper and if we do a calculation of 4 pax travelling - diesel works out much cheaper than even public transport buses.

Recurring expense especially fuel bills tend people to go diesel car eventhough the no of kms covered per month is relatively less.

Also by driving more, you use the product fully and enjoy it.

In almost all diesel cars (used by rich or medium or poor??), the fuel gauge needle will be always near the "F' mark, but this is not the case with Petrol cars.
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Old 17th March 2010, 22:47   #190
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@samsan02,

Thats a great work displayed in excel mate. It really helps people to quickly finalize on what they should be doing while taking the decision to go for petrol/diesel.
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Old 18th March 2010, 09:57   #191
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I am currently having a 10 yr old Indica Diesel. For my next car i am going in for a Petrol car purely because after yrs, maintaining a diesel becomes a lot expensive. The cost of oil change and filter is quite expensive even though your running is not much. Thats the problem I faced with my Indica. Of course the current diesel are much more advanced than the prev gen Indicas.

For a diesel one needs to pay a premium while buying, costs low when buying fuel and cost high for maintenance later down the years especially after the 5th year of ownership.
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Old 18th March 2010, 12:39   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samsan02 View Post
..........
Attached excel gives a comparision of the Petrol vs Diesel...........
Excellent analysis! I have driven almost 60k km in 27 months in my Swift Vxi so I feel qualified to give an opinion on this.
The fact is that a petrol car will indeed burn a hole in your pocket with my kind of usage. Maintenance costs of diesel cars are not that much higher than a petrol. A lot of my running around is work related and ultimately reimbursable, so I am ok with a petrol, but if I was paying for all of the fuel myself I'd certainly be in a bad mood perpetually.
My main motivation for buying a Vxi was that it was available readily whereas in Dec '07 the waiting period for a Vdi with ABS was 6 months minimum.
My next car will of course be a diesel.
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Old 25th March 2010, 14:57   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravikn View Post
Thats a great work displayed in excel mate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy.S View Post
Excellent analysis!
Thanks guys! Numbers and analysis will always make things easier.
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Old 25th March 2010, 15:49   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ph03n!x View Post
The Kirit Parekh panel report is just about out, and I don't think it is implemented yet. If implemented, it will add about a lakh to the current ex-showroom process of Diesel cars, to offset the higher subsidy Diesel fuel currently has.
It is a good idea to increase the excise duty on diesel cars. Every taxpayer is paying for the diesel fuel subsidy and the benefits are being enjoyed by private transportation vehicles in the name of controlling food/produce inflation. This is basically an indirect subsidy financed by the tax-payer to diesel car manufacturers. It is time to stop that. And any taxi/tour operator can recuperate the higher up-front costs over the lifetime of the vehicle.
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Old 25th March 2010, 16:19   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samsan02 View Post

Enjoy the financial analysis and choose the one which suits you best.
Hi samsan02,

Excellent work and Analysis mate.

I haven't come across such a comprehensive analysis template on this subject yet. It sure helps in making a decision.
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