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Old 27th May 2010, 21:46   #211
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Hi samsan02,
Great work. Will be of instant help to many. I am an immediate beneficiary of the chart, as I am about to upgrade. Diesel-petrol question was always confusing. I could create many scenarios with the help of the chart.

Thanks once again.
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Old 28th May 2010, 00:14   #212
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After going through the last few pages, I am at a loss to find the "financial truth" of owning a petrol car vs a diesel car. Most of the people are citing their experiences which are relatively subjective, and many of the figures quoted can be called into question due to a variety of reasons.

Can we re-do this with more objective figures? Instead of adding arbitrary figures on the maintenance cost, can we use the manufacturer recommended service intervals, service charges and parts replacement as the basis for the calculations? So if the manufacturer recommends that the spark plugs need to be replaced after 80K, let's add that to the maintenance cost after 80K. Anything not recommended by a manufacturer would go out. Similarly instead of factoring in the driving conditions in various cities at various times, why not use the ARAI certified FE of the different vehicles and use that as a benchmark, instead of differentiating between the city and highway FE?

Let's try and come up with a model that only deals with facts and figures that are standard, uniform and verifiable. Let's not dilute this with secondary and tertiary factors of environmental impact and the likes. Once a base model is ready, it will tell us under identical conditions what would be the total ownership cost of a diesel and a comparable petrol. Using a Swift for this analysis is good because you have the car in both Petrol and Diesel models and that means a lot of verifiable data already exists out there.

Please, it can't be too hard to stop arguing for your opinion and spend time searching and compiling verifiable facts?
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Old 28th May 2010, 09:26   #213
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I agree to everything you said except that of going by ARAI figures. That wont do justice to the calculations. For example the ARAI figures for the i10 kappa engine is around 19km/l. But i'm not sure how many would be getting any close to that in practical driving. Maybe we should reach a value based on a random sample taken from genuine owners from different sites. BUt finding genuine owners out there is very difficult (and thats the reason why T-Bhp is still just awesome )
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Old 28th May 2010, 09:42   #214
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Yep except for ARAI figures bit all of honeybee suggestions are valid.
The solution to ARAI figures is the Autocar + Overdrive city + highway driving average figures that they already provide. They are closer to reality for all cars and would be without bias for a specific car.
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Old 28th May 2010, 11:27   #215
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The ARAI figures may not be accurate in road conditions, they may be under "test" conditions, but we need to keep in mind the "test" conditions for all the cars will be the same. So even though they are not realistic, they are consistent and standard for all cars and models. The conditions under which ARAI tests the FE of a Hyundai i10 would be the same for the Alto or even for a Mercedes. The real life figures of these cars would never be comparable. I personally get around 15kmpl in city driving from my 6-year old Santro, but the comparison Excel sheet in this thread quotes around 12 kmpl under city driving for a petrol car. So the figures here are highly subjective. Let's stick to only objective data. The aim of the base model is to be able to compare the objective data to know what would be the break-even or payback period for a petrol/diesel vehicle.

(Edit: My personal experience of FE figures does not match with the magazine data always. Also these magazines typically only check the FE in Mumbai or Chennai or wherever they have driven the car. So again the FE claimed for a Figo by Auto Car may be different from the FE you get from a Figo in say Kolkata. It would help if we trusted the ARAI figures for all the cars for the purpose of comparison. These figures will be available to all the customers within India and they would be obtained in neutral conditions, so they are unbiased and consistent - if not always realistic)

Once we arrive at the base model that only uses standard and verifiable data (without any influence of the surrounding factors), we can then personalise the model to suit individual needs. For e.g. I may personally prefer an Indica for diesel cars over say Swift, while for a petrol car my choice would be a Santro. I can then use the base model and put in the relevant figures for a diesel Indica vs a petrol Santro and work out which car would give me the best returns/savings.

Last edited by honeybee : 28th May 2010 at 11:39.
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Old 28th May 2010, 12:47   #216
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There is a thread on user mileage. Someone will need to enter all that data into a spreadsheet and get an average. Any takers?
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...fficiency.html (What is your Actual Fuel Efficiency?)

Secondly, this site allows users to enter their figures, and provides an average. If everyone could enter data there, we could get more realistic numbers. However, there is a caveat in having to register on that site (Mods, please note that I am in no way affiliated to that site - I found it when searching for Fiesta mileage):
Mileage of Ford Fiesta Variants, Ford Fiesta Fuel Efficiency, Ford Fiesta Mileage | Mileage at CarTradeIndia.com
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Old 28th June 2010, 16:52   #217
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Hi

I am 6 feet tall guy and requires a good leg room car. After reviewing many cars I have shortlisted RITZ...My monthly usage is 1000 kms ..

Which version shud I go ? Petrol or diesel ? I am calculating like this (Petrol seems to be winner)

Usage = 1000 kms
Ritz Petrol avg =13
Petrol reqd in one month = 77 litres (approx)
so expenditure = 77*51 = 3927/- ..lets say 4000/-


Ritz Diesel avg =16
Diesel reqd in one month = 62.5 litres (approx)
so expenditure = 62.5*40= 2500/-
So savings = 4000-2500 = 1500/ per month


so in 1 yr I wud be saving 18k
and in 5 yrs it will be 90k ....so diesel car wud prove useful if kept for more than 5 yrs


But if I buy diesel car today, I am giving 90k as of now while in Petrol I am saving 90k


Lets put 90k @ 8% FD ..so sum returned in 5 yrs = 133735/-


So doesnt that prove Petrol car is more gud ?


Plz advice


TIA
Sumit
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Old 28th June 2010, 18:13   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esumitkumar View Post
Lets put 90k @ 8% FD ..so sum returned in 5 yrs = 133735/-
So doesnt that prove Petrol car is more gud ?
Plz advice
TIA
Sumit
I think you are calculating rightly, but also be aware that a costlier car would need more insurance premium as well and the same time diesel car may fetch better resale value than a petrol car when you sell it. But ofcourse the difference wont be 90k thou (when new). You can check my post here and do some calculation in the excel file, it helps to be more realistic in making the decision.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1784011 (The financial Truth: Petrol vs Diesel)

Last edited by samsan02 : 28th June 2010 at 18:18.
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Old 28th June 2010, 23:01   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esumitkumar View Post
Hi

I am 6 feet tall guy and requires a good leg room car. After reviewing many cars I have shortlisted RITZ...My monthly usage is 1000 kms ..

Which version shud I go ? Petrol or diesel ? I am calculating like this (Petrol seems to be winner)

Usage = 1000 kms
Ritz Petrol avg =13
Petrol reqd in one month = 77 litres (approx)
so expenditure = 77*51 = 3927/- ..lets say 4000/-


Ritz Diesel avg =16
Diesel reqd in one month = 62.5 litres (approx)
so expenditure = 62.5*40= 2500/-
So savings = 4000-2500 = 1500/ per month


so in 1 yr I wud be saving 18k
and in 5 yrs it will be 90k ....so diesel car wud prove useful if kept for more than 5 yrs


But if I buy diesel car today, I am giving 90k as of now while in Petrol I am saving 90k


Lets put 90k @ 8% FD ..so sum returned in 5 yrs = 133735/-


So doesnt that prove Petrol car is more gud ?


Plz advice


TIA
Sumit
On paper this looks impressive. But you have to consider the ever increasing petrol price, definitely after deregulation. You never know next year it may go up to Rs. 80/lit. IMO as diesel used in the agricultural sector it'll be little difficult to complete deregulation of diesel price.

I personally feels it pinches when every time you visit a bunk and shell out more money if you have a petrol car in comparison to a diesel. Rather, I would prefer to pay one time little more money to get a diesel car and feel happy every thousands time I visits a pump.

That's why I got a Ritz Vdi for myself. The superb 1.3 lit turbo diesel engine is a bonus.
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Old 29th June 2010, 06:34   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esumitkumar View Post
Hi

I am 6 feet tall guy and requires a good leg room car. After reviewing many cars I have shortlisted RITZ...My monthly usage is 1000 kms ..

Which version shud I go ? Petrol or diesel ? I am calculating like this (Petrol seems to be winner)

Usage = 1000 kms
Ritz Petrol avg =13
Petrol reqd in one month = 77 litres (approx)
so expenditure = 77*51 = 3927/- ..lets say 4000/-


Ritz Diesel avg =16
Diesel reqd in one month = 62.5 litres (approx)
so expenditure = 62.5*40= 2500/-
So savings = 4000-2500 = 1500/ per month


so in 1 yr I wud be saving 18k
and in 5 yrs it will be 90k ....so diesel car wud prove useful if kept for more than 5 yrs


But if I buy diesel car today, I am giving 90k as of now while in Petrol I am saving 90k


Lets put 90k @ 8% FD ..so sum returned in 5 yrs = 133735/-


Sumit
How about putting Rs.1500/- per month saving on diesel in R.D @8% ? the scenario changes if you take into account better torque and/or resale value.
cheers
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Old 29th June 2010, 06:58   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanagg1 View Post
How about putting Rs.1500/- per month saving on diesel in R.D @8% ? the scenario changes if you take into account better torque and/or resale value.
cheers
Good point. And this saving will only increase since the gap between petrol & diesel will certainly increase.

Forget cutting the subsidy of Diesel. Its not even possible in this current way of central govt working. So, govt. will only increases the scope of people using the diesel. The more the price diff, the more people move towards diesel, and more subsidy burden to govt.

Ofcourse, in-turn it comes back to us as income or some tax
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Old 29th June 2010, 14:37   #222
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Default Petrol is better for 10K - 15 K per year

When i bought my Dzire i was thinking of the same. Weather i should go for diesel or not. Price diff was approx 1 lac. My monthly avg running would be 600 - 700 kms.

What i thought is buying diesel means 1 lac rupees extra loan. EMI for that extra on lac is 2200 for 60 months. In 2200 Rs i can buy petrol approximately 40 liters. Even if i consider mileage of 14 per lit (50% of my driving is highways) i can commute 560 Kms free of cost per month for 60 months. Also i always admire petrol engines for there smoothness & good pickup. So i decided to go for petrol. Till date i am happy. Just when i went for long trip i wish i could have bought diesel

I guess people who travel 20K to 30K or more they should go for diesel. Else petrol rocks
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Old 29th June 2010, 14:43   #223
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Just putting my point of view in this discussion..

For a prospective car buyer, He may decide on a budget first. He might consider going for a Diesel Figo Titanium or Petrol I20 Magna given the budget of around 6L+ OTR. So here the initial cost difference doesnt hold good.

For a person like me, if i have a diesel car, I might feel like taking it out for long drives more often than a petrol car. So the initial calculations i made for petrol vs diesel with respect to my avg. running will go for a toss.

Above all, the smiles that u get after filling tank full -- Priceless..
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Old 30th June 2010, 05:51   #224
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As per PM Manmohan Singh ,Diesel prices to go the petrol way ,

"Manmohan Singh addresses the media on board his special flight to Frankfurt on Monday after attending the G-20 Summit in Toronto —PTIOn board PM's special aircraft: Prime minister (PM) Manmohan Singh said on Tuesday diesel prices too will be freed from government control as part of "much-needed reforms", but LPG and kerosene will continue to be subsidised.
"Petrol prices have been set free, the same is going to be done to diesel prices," he told journalists on his way back from Toronto where he attended the G-20 summit." DNA News

If this happens then certainly the craze for diesel will cool down. Definitely much greater emphasis need to be given to environmentally friendly fuels and strive for developing alternate fuels.
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Old 30th June 2010, 07:13   #225
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Article in today's TOI.

Quote:
NO COST ADVANTAGE NOW
Demand for diesel car likely to slow down

Pankaj Doval | TNN

New Delhi: Demand for diesel cars --that has been on the rise for the last a few years -- may dip as government is increasing price of the fuel, bringing it closer to petrol.
Officials from top car companies said the 'attractive' price differential between petrol and diesel was the key reason behind the rising preference for diesel vehicles. "Lowering of the pricing gap could blunt this advantage, pushing the deal favourably towards petrol-driven cars that are also around 10-15% cheaper than diesel variants."
"If the price of diesel moves up again and comes further closer to petrol, there would certainly be a shift in buying behaviour as people would prefer to opt more for petrol vehicles," said Ankush Arora, vice-president (sales & marketing) at General Motors India. Arora said the shift could be 'immediate' in small cars where monthly fuel bills is an important factor in purchasing decisions.
The share of diesel variant in overall car sales has been moving up over the last a few years. According to industry estimates, diesel accounted for about 20-25% of sales till 2007 and now stands at about 30-35%.
Mayank Pareek, managing executive officer (marketing and sales) at Maruti Suzuki, agreed that lower price was behind rising share of diesel vehicles. "Certainly, the price differential is the prime mover for diesel. So there would be some impact if its price goes up further. However, the improved technology on diesel engines is also among factors pushing sales."
For Maruti, the demand is skewed towards diesel at present where a model has both petrol and diesel variants. "It is like 55% or 60% for diesel in many of the models," Pareek said, though refusing to give any forecast on how the increased prices could impact demand. "It is too early to comment."
Arvind Saxena, marketing and sales director at Hyundai India, also said the 'growing trend' towards diesel cars would be impacted if the price of the fuel continues to go up.
While agreeing that lower cost was the major reason behind the surge in diesel, he also listed rising sophistication in engine technology behind their increasing preference.
Nigel Wark, executive director (marketing & sales) at Ford India, said there are customers who like the driving characteristics of diesel engines. "While there is no doubt that there can be some impact at the bottom-end of the market, there would not be any dramatic shift," Wark added.
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