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Old 30th June 2010, 07:21   #226
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Default Do we believe them or should we ?

Govt. of India decided to do away with APM (Administered Price Mechanism) with the beginning of NELP era in 1998. The Roll out date fixed at 01-April-2002 later on the date was changed to 01-April-2004 and even than Govt not being able to honour their commitment till date. The same govt.-the same PM. now advocating etc. etc..
The Govt attitude is mainly responsible for Closure of Essar/Reliance petrol pumps and recent natural gas fiasco of RIL/RNRL

Quote:
Originally Posted by tj123 View Post
As per PM Manmohan Singh ,Diesel prices to go the petrol way ,

"Manmohan Singh addresses the media on board his special flight to Frankfurt on Monday after attending the G-20 Summit in Toronto —PTIOn board PM's special aircraft: Prime minister (PM) Manmohan Singh said on Tuesday diesel prices too will be freed from government control as part of "much-needed reforms", but LPG and kerosene will continue to be subsidised.
"Petrol prices have been set free, the same is going to be done to diesel prices," he told journalists on his way back from Toronto where he attended the G-20 summit." DNA News

If this happens then certainly the craze for diesel will cool down. Definitely much greater emphasis need to be given to environmentally friendly fuels and strive for developing alternate fuels.
Do we believe them or should we ?
cheers
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Old 30th June 2010, 07:44   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tj123 View Post
As per PM Manmohan Singh ,Diesel prices to go the petrol way ,

"Manmohan Singh addresses the media on board his special flight to Frankfurt on Monday after attending the G-20 Summit in Toronto —PTIOn board PM's special aircraft: Prime minister (PM) Manmohan Singh said on Tuesday diesel prices too will be freed from government control as part of "much-needed reforms", but LPG and kerosene will continue to be subsidised.
"Petrol prices have been set free, the same is going to be done to diesel prices," he told journalists on his way back from Toronto where he attended the G-20 summit." DNA News

If this happens then certainly the craze for diesel will cool down. Definitely much greater emphasis need to be given to environmentally friendly fuels and strive for developing alternate fuels.
It took so long to get this done for Petrol. Now wait for this to happen for Diesel.
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Old 30th June 2010, 08:00   #228
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Diesel is what the country runs on, a Hike(losing subsidy) In Diesel can lead to increase in the prices of Many Commodities , it will trigger a chain reaction.
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Old 30th June 2010, 09:34   #229
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diesel-decontrol-certain-says-pm
Today's TOI says diesel prices will also be set free, subsequently. This might affect the sales of Diesel vehicles looking at the premium one has to pay for diesel vehicles, upfront.
check the link:
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/natio...in-says-pm-075

Last edited by 11mahesh11 : 30th June 2010 at 09:35.
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Old 30th June 2010, 12:12   #230
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Correct me if I am wrong, my info is mainly from news articles:

Petrol is already fully at market rates now.

Diesel is not de-regulated, but de-regulation (at current rates) will add only 1.50 Rs to the cost per liter.

So the difference in cost of diesel and petrol currently has less to do with subsidy and more to do with diesel having less taxes/duties?

Which means that de-regulation of diesel will still leave a hefty difference in price between diesel and petrol so long as duty structure remains same?

Could somebody in the know clarify?

I think this would help a lot of people with the petrol vs diesel car choices.
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Old 30th June 2010, 13:11   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chncar View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, my info is mainly from news articles:

Petrol is already fully at market rates now.
Petrol is not yet fully at market rates as far as I understood, I guess PSU petrol is still roughly Rs.3 behind market rate. An indicator to this is the still prevailing difference between Shell and PSU rates.
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Old 30th June 2010, 13:58   #232
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The day we see different PSU bunks charging different prices for petrol, we will know decontrol has finally arrived!
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Old 1st July 2010, 07:37   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11mahesh11 View Post
diesel-decontrol-certain-says-pm
Today's TOI says diesel prices will also be set free, subsequently. This might affect the sales of Diesel vehicles looking at the premium one has to pay for diesel vehicles, upfront.
check the link:
Diesel decontrol certain, says PM | Deccan Chronicle | 2010-06-30
Please read post #226 above

Quote:
Originally Posted by chncar View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, my info is mainly from news articles:

Petrol is already fully at market rates now. Not Fully as yet

Diesel is not de-regulated, but de-regulation (at current rates) will add only 1.50 Rs to the cost per liter. No-Diesel will roughly cost petrol price (-)Rs.5

So the difference in cost of diesel and petrol currently has less to do with subsidy and more to do with diesel having less taxes/duties?

Which means that de-regulation of diesel will still leave a hefty difference in price between diesel and petrol so long as duty structure remains same?

Could somebody in the know clarify?

I think this would help a lot of people with the petrol vs diesel car choices.
For this refer a very animated discussion at http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-petrol-4.html (Would you still buy a Diesel car if Diesel was priced closer to Petrol?)

cheers
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Old 1st July 2010, 11:25   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indivic View Post
Petrol is not yet fully at market rates as far as I understood, I guess PSU petrol is still roughly Rs.3 behind market rate. An indicator to this is the still prevailing difference between Shell and PSU rates.
My two bits on this. I may be wrong. The price that the PSUs pay for crude is known as the "Indian basket" and is different (lower) than tha international rates that you see in the papers. For Shell this is not the case. Also in the case of Shell, I believe they take the best of the lot and hence is more expensive. By "best of the lot" what I mean is that when an oil tanker comes in, the premium people (Shell) take the top portion while the bottom (where the residues have deposited) are taken by others and my guess is that there are two different rates for these. This is one of the explanations that I have heard on why different brands in the US price their gas differently. I guess having your own refinery to not having your own refinery also plays a part.

Note from Mod : Please continue the discussion on the new petrol vs diesel thread (Would you still buy a Diesel car if Diesel was priced closer to Petrol?).

Last edited by GTO : 2nd July 2010 at 11:21. Reason: Adding thread closure note
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Old 19th May 2011, 20:25   #235
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Default Fuel that Fire: Petrol or Diesel?

Request to mods with apologies: I haven't searched the forum extensively for similar work so if it exists, please merge threads.

Background:

The steep hike of petrol prices a few days back got me thinking about whether a petrol car is really worth it. Read in TOI yesterday that with the difference in prices of Petrol and Diesel, the initial cost vs operating benefits break-even period for a Diesel car has come down drastically right down to 18 months. Didn't sound convincing. Other people I asked gave varying figures. Finally, opened an Excel sheet and worked it out with some assumptions. The results, even though anticipated, amazed me to say the least.

The effort for me was considerable since I'm not used to work with Excel but the results were something I thought I must share with the team and get valuable inputs/suggestions/improvements for the work.General observations are welcome and inputs from auto experts are most welcome and comments from statistical gurus such as smartcat, DrAD especially solicited (my formulas are very basic arithmetic and may even appear crude but then like I said, am not used to working with Excel and statistics).

The running cost calculator
:

It's very simple to use. If you want to change the basic figures such as fuel prices, FE, mileage, just change the figures in red to anything you want and the resultant values are updated. I've built down to up from Petrol/Diesel prices and their increments spread over 15 years (or interval, to be more accurate), the mileage values as per personal requirement, the FE expected from the cars (two samples used for C+ and C Segments, it could be any two segments) and the result table is generated by the software.

The result table which I named Running Costs calculates:-

1. The running cost per km from the FE and fuel price that fed in.
2. The yearly cost for your mileage with the above values of running cost/km.
3. The yearly saving you get from running an oil burner for the above values.
4. The progressive saving you get as the years go by.

The weak areas in the assumptions I made:-

1. The trend of pertol/diesel prices is extrapolated over too many years and I don't have much knowledge of the expected trends. If anyone can shed light on these or update the sheets, it will be great.
2. The FE I've assumed will vary greatly from each specific car to another car (car condition, driving style etc) so you have to feed the exact FE you see on your vehicle or accurate figures reported by others. This is not a flaw as such since the figures are readily available/ can be safely amended as required.
3. I appear to have given more benefit of doubt to Petrol in terms of FE and done injustice to Diesel prices by having the same rate of inflation. This too can be corrected by some tweaking with the FE figures and a little more tweaking with the yearwise Diesel price growth coefficients.

As of now, I've put in five sheets in the Excel file and I'm attaching screenshots of these below too. These show:-

1. Calculations for a yearly running of 8,000 km/yr.
2. Calculations for a yearly running of 12,000 km/yr.
3. Calculations for a yearly running of 16,000 km/yr.
4. Calculations for a hypothetical scenario if Diesel subsidies are gradually reduced by overinflating Diesel prices and regulating Petrol prices over 8 to 9 years. Only for mileage of 8,000 km/yr.
5. Calculations for a hypothetical scenario if Diesel prices are gradually equalised with Petrol prices by deinflating Petrol prices over 8 to 9 years. Only for mileage of 8,000 km/yr.

Expect a lot of bashing for the last two. They are much the same really.

Finally, here's the stuff.

The Excel file:

Running Cost Calculator.xlsx

The screenshots (click images to see readable figures):

For 8 K km/yr:

The financial Truth: Petrol vs Diesel-running-cost-screenshot-8k-km-per-yr.jpg

For 12 K km/yr:

The financial Truth: Petrol vs Diesel-running-cost-screenshot-12k-km-per-yr.jpg

For 16 K km/yr:

The financial Truth: Petrol vs Diesel-running-cost-screenshot-16k-km-per-yr.jpg

For Diesel gradually bought at par with petrol:

The financial Truth: Petrol vs Diesel-running-cost-screenshot-diesel-unsubsidised.jpg

For petrol deinflated and equated till Diesel catches up:

The financial Truth: Petrol vs Diesel-running-cost-screenshot-diesel-price-equals-petrol.jpg

The results speak for themselves and how. The situation of prices just screams 'Diesel' for ANY medium-long term car ownerships, even if Diesel prices were to equal those of Petrol (see the figures after ten years in the last two sheets, sheer force of more FE gives oil burners an edge there too). Our redline loving friends on the forum are not going to be happy with these figures. But then they didn't care about economical ways in the first place, did they?

The Road Ahead:
The excel document need not necessarily mean a petrol vs diesel comparison. If you disregard the petrol/diesel words and put in the appropriate figures, any two sets of cars can be compared.

This tool could become a useful database for all members looking to find economy of operation of any model of any car. Any member generating a sheet with their own data for their own car could please upload it all to see.

Hope you guys find it useful. It sure changed me totally from wanting a petrol car to a diesel car. Cheers.

-Hrish

Last edited by Delta Wing : 19th May 2011 at 20:28. Reason: grammar check
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Old 14th July 2014, 10:49   #236
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Default Petrol or Diesel : Limbo continues

With the launch of the Zest, my Vista would start looking for a buyer. 30 months with 43k on the odo, the Vista has been my confident ride across states.

With diesel prices on the verge of being de-regulated (up by INR 20 in last 24 months), I am confused if I should go for a diesel or switch to petrol. The confusion is pronounced more so because of the Revotron engine being introduced.

Below is the fuel difference over a period of 48 months.

Name:  PD Diff.JPG
Views: 1814
Size:  47.1 KB

Per the above calculation, the diesel price variable only offsets in 4 years. Is it logical to buy a diesel with a running of max 1500 kms/month.
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