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Old 11th February 2009, 16:32   #61
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Originally Posted by asr245 View Post
That is almost laughable. I am an enthusiast and I do think the the torqy diesel must be really exciting to drive but I for one can't think of doing without the free revv'ing petrol engine or the sound it makes; even in my wagonR!!
ASR - I would just say Drive it to believe it. Diesel rules.
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Old 11th February 2009, 17:35   #62
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financial -diesel rules.atleast indica rules(yeah ,it got its own set of problems though).
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Old 11th February 2009, 18:27   #63
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Originally Posted by abhijit 2284 View Post
most petrol car's have one major advantage -they are far quieter at high speeds as compared to their diesel counterparts.

try doing 110 -130 in a swift diesel for 3 hours at a stretch ,far more tiring than in a petrol.

in a indica cant even manage for more than a hour -it just tires you down.

i still prefer petrol to diesel atleast till i get something like a 3series or a4 diesel
Beg to differ. Drove cousins Indica from Chd to Delhi - 5 hours continous. No tiring effects.
As mentioned Swift D is more silent.

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Originally Posted by goandude View Post
Another aspect in this petrol vs diesel debate... The financial pain of buying a diesel car is only on one day. the day you buy it. while at every pump filling it brings smiles, smiles and smiles.
This is the psychological advantage of diesel. (that is, besides the torque)
Right. Somehow it does pinch if you shell 45 for petrol and brings smile when you give 30 for a litre of diesel. Pure psychological advantage as u said.
Also it makes sense to buy diesel hatchback in the range of 3-5 lacs as most petrol hatchbacks are in same range too. Also the turbo gives you a kick(Speciallt Swift Vdi) and is so much fun to drive than say a Santro or a i10.
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Old 11th February 2009, 19:35   #64
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Originally Posted by goandude View Post
Another aspect in this petrol vs diesel debate... The financial pain of buying a diesel car is only on one day. the day you buy it. while at every pump filling it brings smiles, smiles and smiles.
This is the psychological advantage of diesel. (that is, besides the torque)
Adding to that : I used to fill up Rs 1000 worth petrol in my M800 every week, and it would go about 300km, now I fill 1400 worth of diesel in my Fabia every fortnight and it goes 600-700 km (City), thats a saving right there of 300 rupees per week, and here we're talking of the M800 which would give the same kind of mileage in petrol, If I compare with my Wagon R, I am saving a whole lot of money.
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Old 11th February 2009, 22:38   #65
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Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
Cost of diesel(regular, Bangalore price) - 32
Average mileage of swift-D (highway+city) - 18
Cost per km - 1.77

Cost per 15K km per year - 26666.67

Petrol - 45
Mileage - 12 (The published FE for petrol is 11-13 kmpl)
Cost per km - 3.75

Cost per 15K km per year - 56250

Saving per year with Diesel - 30,000 Rs. (Approx)

In addition one would get a resale value of Swift D higher than Swift P by at least 70000 in 2 years.
Feb07 Swift VDI which has run 30K kms costs - 4.6 L
Feb 07 Swift VXI which has run 30K kms costs - 3.9 L
Individual value excellent condition - from Carwale.com

Initial additional cost of diesel vis-a-vis petrol swift - 4.36L for petrol and 4.96L for Diesel ex showroom. 60 K difference on ex showroom price and on the road max. of 80K difference.

Extra cost with diesel - 80,000 + 5000 + 22000 - 70000 (extra servicing cost for 2 years is about 5000, extra interest on 80 k for 2 years is 22K)
You are presuming three things -
A) FE of 12 km/l in a Swift P. I am constantly getting a 15+km/l FE on the Swift ZXi that I drive.
B) That Carwale price estimations are perfect. My Dec.'04 Accent Viva CRDi (88K+ km) is being quoted at 3.5L in Delhi, but there's no way I can get more than 3.0L - any takers at 3.5L? I'll sell it tomorrow...
C) That service cost difference is 5k for 2 years. The difference is more like 1.5k - 2.5k per service at 10k km intervals, so if you are doing 20k km/annum, the difference in 2 years should work out to 8-10k INR for 2 yrs. This just routine service; add higher costs for miscellaneous additional parts (suspension and tyres), and we are looking at a 15-20k INR difference in 2 years. Higher torque = higher tyre wear for example.
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Old 11th February 2009, 23:45   #66
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Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
ASR - I would just say Drive it to believe it. Diesel rules.
They day they make a diesel Ferrari I'll believe this nonsense about diesel cars being more fun to drive.

Or else, convince Jeremy Clarkson.
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Old 12th February 2009, 10:01   #67
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
You are presuming three things -
A) FE of 12 km/l in a Swift P. I am constantly getting a 15+km/l FE on the Swift ZXi that I drive.
B) That Carwale price estimations are perfect. My Dec.'04 Accent Viva CRDi (88K+ km) is being quoted at 3.5L in Delhi, but there's no way I can get more than 3.0L - any takers at 3.5L? I'll sell it tomorrow...
C) That service cost difference is 5k for 2 years. The difference is more like 1.5k - 2.5k per service at 10k km intervals, so if you are doing 20k km/annum, the difference in 2 years should work out to 8-10k INR for 2 yrs. This just routine service; add higher costs for miscellaneous additional parts (suspension and tyres), and we are looking at a 15-20k INR difference in 2 years. Higher torque = higher tyre wear for example.
A) Yes few people have got 15 kmpl and few <10 kmpl. For example my swift D is constantly giving me over 20 kmpl now also in this forum there have been claims of Swift D giving 22 kmpl. I have gone by average kmpl rather than individual highs or lows.

B) Again here I have gone by a reputed site which publishes data from all over india. Irrespective of what the price may be the Diesel Swift WILL command a premium of 60-70,000 rs over Swift P.

C) Service costs is taken on actuals spent by me and some of the Swift D BHPians in this forum. I do not think there is any additional charges for Tyres or Suspension components of Swift D and you don't change your suspension in 2 years.

I have done a thorough exercise with actual data while your post is not backed up by any data. NO WAY YOU NEED TO DRIVE OVER 1 L KM TO BREAKEVEN ON A DIESEL VIS-A-VIS PETROL.
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Old 12th February 2009, 10:04   #68
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Originally Posted by theEnd View Post
They day they make a diesel Ferrari I'll believe this nonsense about diesel cars being more fun to drive.

Or else, convince Jeremy Clarkson.
Here we are discussing normal cars driven by normal people. Comparing Swift P with Swift D, Indica P with Indica Multijet etc. We are not discussing Ferrari which forms a miniscule percentage of cars owned in this forum (I would say 0%).
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Old 12th February 2009, 10:07   #69
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@DieselFan: there is no additional cost on the suspension due to the diesel. Only with the heavier weight (the Aluminium Alloy Multijet with Turbo should be heavier) leads to a higher wear and tear on the suspension.
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Old 12th February 2009, 10:27   #70
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Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
I have done a thorough exercise with actual data while your post is not backed up by any data.
Dear DieselFan: Such personal insinuations are neither necessary nor desirable on this forum. I am sure you have done your homework thoroughly, but that does not allow you to imply that other members haven't done theirs. My data includes my own records of personal usage and comparison between 3 vehicles in P and D form: the Ambassador, the Indica and now the Accent. Please read sgiitk's post regarding higher suspension and tyre costs because of the inherently higher weight of diesels.
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Old 12th February 2009, 10:30   #71
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Ever replaced a Common Rail injection component on a modern diesel? That will blow your cost/ benefit arguement to bits.

Ever driven a diesel to 100000+ kms? I have. It's not as reliable as your recycled statements make it seem - Compenents like Turbochargers, high pressure injectors etc. weren't designed for our conditions and fail along the way. Replacing them is not cheap.

I've driven cars fueled by both fuels. Petrol is, by its nature, a far more fun fuel. However, I believe it's days are numbered. You can't have so much fun without a cost and sadly the cost is being paid for by our environment.

Diesels are more fuel efficient, yes. But they are simply an extension of the problem.

The real solution, the real fun to drive vehicle of tomorrow will be electric. Instant Maximum torque, no noise, no pollution, minimum maintenance.

I've owned several high end and low end cars so far and NOTHING comes close to the thrill of a well designed electric car.

Till then, if you really want a fuel to save you money, try the newest factory CNG cars from Renault, Hyundai and GM. Not bad performers compared to earlier CNG technology and HUGE savings. Less harmful for the environment and the economy, two crucial e's!

Last edited by Screwdriva : 12th February 2009 at 10:39.
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Old 12th February 2009, 10:36   #72
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I am sure the new CRDe and TDCi technology have made the diesel engines better than the ones in the Simple Diesel Cars of 2000-02.

But I feel a Petrol car is much smoother to drive and sit in, you don't get that much noise and vibration and more over even people i know who have nothing to do with the details of a car, can feel the difference.

My friend's uncle feels nauseous in a Diesel car, Even Innova or Qualis.. But in petrol one he is just fine and he doesnt even know which car runs on what fuel..
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Old 12th February 2009, 10:39   #73
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take my case. The indica DLG is about 75K more expensive than the Indica GLG. similarly equipped, but the DLG has a 14" wheels (GLG has 13" ers). The DLG has a 14" turbodiesel with an intercooler, the GLG has a 1.2 engine. The diesel is actually faster and more fun to drive
and I get an FE of 13~14 ( worst case , most get >15) , while the GLG will return <13 ( have a friend whose GLS returns 10~12)
at the time of resale, the differences will be much higher ~1 lakh or so.

there is no common rail in my motor, and being a tata , the parts are cheap ( the turbo indica was just 15k more expensive than the NA ). the indica block is derived from the tata 407/207 engine blocks and are very much designed for our conditions, and i give all the lorries as proof!

Last edited by greenhorn : 12th February 2009 at 10:43.
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Old 12th February 2009, 10:56   #74
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Default No point of finding a break even point as non-exists

Well every car has various variants in the market and difference between the variants is nothing but addition of different kinds of features.

I bought a diesel car thinking of it as an additonal feature, in the same way one of my friend bought a Civic Hybrid over normal Civic Petrol as hybrid was an extra feature of the car.

A normal study would say a particular Diesel variant of the car is a lakh costlier. That would mean an extra 1.8k in an EMI ( rate as per Govt. banks )

Cost of running 1000km per month

In my petrol car ::: For a 1000km at an avg. of 14kms = 74.4 l of Petrol = Rs 3571

In my diesel car ::: For a 1000km at an avg. of 21kms = 47.6 l of Diesel = Rs 1666 + Rs 1800 ( EMI ) = Rs 3466

So to conclude even if you are just travelling 1000kms a month there is no point of finding a break even point as non-exists

For anything less then a 1000kms a month, a person should go for a Petrol or else he or she will struggle ( as the formula is still not out ) to find the breakeven point if they buy a Diesel car
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Old 12th February 2009, 11:11   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
@DieselFan: there is no additional cost on the suspension due to the diesel. Only with the heavier weight (the Aluminium Alloy Multijet with Turbo should be heavier) leads to a higher wear and tear on the suspension.
Sir,

Palio 1.6 Petrol weighs 1060 kgs
Palio 1.3 Diesel weighs 1065 kgs

I dont think that difference of 5kgs would lead to more wear and tear of the Diesel variants suspension
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