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Old 12th February 2008, 01:03   #16
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The UK starting price for a Jazz 1.4L is about GBP 9k and usually when such cars are built in India, it usually should lands @ 60% of the currency converted rate (example, Skoda Octy, Laura) and roughly @100% (or a little higher) converted currency rate when CBUs (e.g. Mondeo, Superb) are imported. So Honda is clearly over pricing this offering esp with a 1.2 L offering, which is quite a shame.

Now for the car itself, I had to drive a Jazz a few weekends back to Scotland when something bad happened to a friend. The car is such a shame on the motorway despite having a 1.4 L under the hood. The pick up is miserable, the fuel eff was such a low figure of 11.76 kmpl for a 1300 km drive (mixed mountains and motorways), (all) the seats lacked support (no lumbar, no thigh support for the drive) and steep backrests for the backseats, vague steering and you need to plan your overtaking adventures well in advance to prevent your name coming up on the wrong column on the company newsletter. Most superior example of all-show-no-go. And remember, this car had only 200 miles on the odo when I drove. The rental car company later told me, this car is not a favorite (I was better off with my Vectra had it not gone for the service). My colleague's Ford Ka was definitely more fun that this Silver anorexic piece of machine.

The sad part is there will be people in India lining up to buy this, just because it is a Honda.

BH.


P.S.: Is there someone there who thinks that if NHC was the first nail Honda hit, Fit/Jazz is the second (but a bigger) one? Or is it just me?
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Old 12th February 2008, 10:44   #17
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If Honda brings the Jazz with the 1.2 L engine then wouldn't they get the excise benefit? BUT, will they pass on that benefit to us? We all know the answer to this question, don't we?
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Old 12th February 2008, 23:41   #18
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Originally Posted by BurningHeart View Post
The UK starting price for a Jazz 1.4L is about GBP 9k and usually when such cars are built in India, it usually should lands @ 60% of the currency converted rate (example, Skoda Octy, Laura) and roughly @100% (or a little higher) converted currency rate when CBUs (e.g. Mondeo, Superb) are imported. So Honda is clearly over pricing this offering esp with a 1.2 L offering, which is quite a shame.

Now for the car itself, I had to drive a Jazz a few weekends back to Scotland when something bad happened to a friend. The car is such a shame on the motorway despite having a 1.4 L under the hood. The pick up is miserable, the fuel eff was such a low figure of 11.76 kmpl for a 1300 km drive (mixed mountains and motorways), (all) the seats lacked support (no lumbar, no thigh support for the drive) and steep backrests for the backseats, vague steering and you need to plan your overtaking adventures well in advance to prevent your name coming up on the wrong column on the company newsletter. Most superior example of all-show-no-go. And remember, this car had only 200 miles on the odo when I drove. The rental car company later told me, this car is not a favorite (I was better off with my Vectra had it not gone for the service). My colleague's Ford Ka was definitely more fun that this Silver anorexic piece of machine.

The sad part is there will be people in India lining up to buy this, just because it is a Honda.

BH.


P.S.: Is there someone there who thinks that if NHC was the first nail Honda hit, Fit/Jazz is the second (but a bigger) one? Or is it just me?

Well said bro! Consider me your new friend. Just two words----City sucks. It's a pathetic excuse for a sedan coming from the renowned house of Honda who are known for excellent cars like Accord, Prelude, Civic, NSX. It's a damp firecracker. On highway, City gets beaten by Swift, Palio Indica and even Santro. You say City is all show no go. I say no show , no go , all badge. Take out that revered "H" badge and this car has nothing. Show? You call a hatch with a boot stuck beauty? Naaa! Honda probably designed it for those who desperately want a booted car but can't afford real thing like Civic / Accord. It's poor performance is keeping younger generation away from this car. I mostly see pot-bellied middle aged executives driving this car who can't afford Civic or Accord. While youngsters seem to be preferring Swift, Fiesta, Civic, Laura, depending on their budget.
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Old 13th February 2008, 11:27   #19
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High price, but high overall customer satisfaction and decent cost of ownership=value for money
High price, post sales robbery=rip off.


I think like the BCG matrix, there is a price value matrix that I studied long time back. Just have to locate it on the web
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Old 13th February 2008, 17:22   #20
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Well said bro! Consider me your new friend. Just two words----City sucks. It's a pathetic excuse for a sedan coming from the renowned house of Honda who are known for excellent cars like Accord, Prelude, Civic, NSX. It's a damp firecracker. On highway, City gets beaten by Swift, Palio Indica and even Santro. You say City is all show no go. I say no show , no go , all badge. Take out that revered "H" badge and this car has nothing. Show? You call a hatch with a boot stuck beauty? Naaa! Honda probably designed it for those who desperately want a booted car but can't afford real thing like Civic / Accord. It's poor performance is keeping younger generation away from this car. I mostly see pot-bellied middle aged executives driving this car who can't afford Civic or Accord. While youngsters seem to be preferring Swift, Fiesta, Civic, Laura, depending on their budget.
Whoa! here we go again, bashing the NHC. Doesn't the perception of a car depend on how it's used? If you want a fast, sporty car that burns rubber - Yes, the City sucks at that. If you want a well built, trouble-free city sedan that is extremely fuel efficient, with excellent quality interiors and loads of space inside and in the boot - then the City is king. Not to mention the anemic engine, as you put it, has amongst the lowest CO2 emissions in the world
Yes it could be more powerful and they should have thrown in airbags and ABS. But the sad truth is, most of us wouldn't pay more for those options and wouldn't want power at the cost of fuel efficiency. Honda knows where the sweet spot is.
And what's all this about a hatch with a boot stuck on? Isn't that true for the Ikon, Esteem, Aveo, the new Swift Dezire and the old Cielo?
I'm not that old and I love the City. Maruti products may be value for money but they cut corners with the interiors and overall quality. I've owned a lot of Maruti products and they all started to rattle within two years of ownership. I can safely attest the City is the first "good" car I've owned. I don't know much about Ford but I wouldn't buy a product from that company, considering the financial shape they are in. Skoda - nice cars but pricey to buy, own and maintain. The Civic? I like it and, granted, it is more powerful and safer than the NHC. But for that money I don't get a significantly bigger car/interior space than the NHC. The Civic is not as fuel efficient (sorry, got used to the champion) and has smaller boot (bad for airport runs). The way my car is used - those issues are important. I'm willing to compromise on boot space but not on fuel efficiency. Hence Im waiting for the Civic hybrid.
Coming back to what the previous poster said about the Jazz on motorways. Im surprised it felt underpowered because if that were the case, the car would have bombed in the US, but it's selling well there. Heck, an Accord feels anemic on Canadian highways. Either way motorway performance won't be an issue in India simply because we don't have roads where you can maintain a constant speed and need extra power to overtake fast moving vehicles. In India, the City does OK on a highway - not the best but OK. And remember till a few years ago we were tackling highways in M800s. If the Indian Jazz gives high FE, good quality and space - it will sell. And no, I dont think it will be just because of the H badge. There are many more attributes that go with the Honda name.
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Old 13th February 2008, 17:50   #21
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Not true. People have choices. Maruti and Tata price their cars very well and people buy tons of these cars. Just look at the sales numbers for these.

Take for example Swift DDis & SX4. It is certainly overpriced.

Not sure why you included Hyundai in the list. Which Hyundai car do you think is priced too high ? Hyundai sells shiploads of Santro and i10.

Think of Getz CRDi and Verna CRDi. (8.76 base model in Bangalore)

Secondly, price is not about the worth of an object but a function of how much people are willing to pay for a particular good.

If Honda was overpriced, people wouldn't buy so many Hondas. NHC/Civic/Accord/CRV are all leaders in their segment.

We need to think what are all the other choices we have in this segment and then decide. Pls explain with data.
My comments in bold.
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Old 13th February 2008, 18:34   #22
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IMO I expect the prices to be like this:

Jazz Exi 1.2L Petrol - 6.8L
Jazz GXi 1.2L Petrol - 7.2L
Jazz GXI + Airbags + ABS 1.2L Petrol - 7.7L
Jazz GXI Automatic + Airbags + ABS 1.2L Petrol - 8L


New New Honday City 1.5L DSI EXI - 8.5L
New New Honday City 1.5L DSI GXI - 9L
New New Honday City 1.5L DSI GXI + Airbags + ABS + Parking Sensors - 9.6L
New New Honday City 1.5L VTEC GXI + Airbags + ABS + Parking Sensors - 10.4L
New New Honday City 1.5L DSI GXI Automatic + Airbags + ABS + Parking Sensors - 10L

Last edited by LandCruiser : 13th February 2008 at 18:37.
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Old 13th February 2008, 18:47   #23
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Are you guessing on OTR prices? If yes they do look good. But I think the Jazz will be even more costlier here.
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Old 13th February 2008, 19:07   #24
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As has been Honda's wont, I think they'll price Jazz too at a premium. Guess for most Indians reputable names mean much more than actual value and I have a feeling that Jazz would sell sizeable numbers. We'll have to wait and see if Honda releases this here or not.
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Old 13th February 2008, 20:03   #25
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Hey man pgsagar, I know you were trying to tell this for a long time. Now that you have spit it out, hope you feel better.
Needless to say you don't own NHC and have no idea what you are telling.
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Well said bro! Consider me your new friend. Just two words----City sucks. It's a pathetic excuse for a sedan coming from the renowned house of Honda who are known for excellent cars like Accord, Prelude, Civic, NSX. It's a damp firecracker. On highway, City gets beaten by Swift, Palio Indica and even Santro. You say City is all show no go. I say no show , no go , all badge. Take out that revered "H" badge and this car has nothing. Show? You call a hatch with a boot stuck beauty? Naaa! Honda probably designed it for those who desperately want a booted car but can't afford real thing like Civic / Accord. It's poor performance is keeping younger generation away from this car. I mostly see pot-bellied middle aged executives driving this car who can't afford Civic or Accord. While youngsters seem to be preferring Swift, Fiesta, Civic, Laura, depending on their budget.
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Old 14th February 2008, 09:45   #26
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Are you guessing on OTR prices? If yes they do look good. But I think the Jazz will be even more costlier here.
Yes. While guessing my assumptions were:

1.Jazz will be prized at premium levels, possibly closer to the Fabia 1.2L
2. But the cost of the top model of Jazz might not be more than the base model of the New new Honda City. They need to position the City Sedan between 8.5 and 10.5L.
3. New Honda City will have at least one top variant that will be priced above 10L

Last edited by LandCruiser : 14th February 2008 at 09:46.
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Old 23rd February 2008, 11:43   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandCruiser View Post
IMO I expect the prices to be like this:

Jazz Exi 1.2L Petrol - 6.8L
Jazz GXi 1.2L Petrol - 7.2L
Jazz GXI + Airbags + ABS 1.2L Petrol - 7.7L
Jazz GXI Automatic + Airbags + ABS 1.2L Petrol - 8L


New New Honday City 1.5L DSI EXI - 8.5L
New New Honday City 1.5L DSI GXI - 9L
New New Honday City 1.5L DSI GXI + Airbags + ABS + Parking Sensors - 9.6L
New New Honday City 1.5L VTEC GXI + Airbags + ABS + Parking Sensors - 10.4L
New New Honday City 1.5L DSI GXI Automatic + Airbags + ABS + Parking Sensors - 10L



I guess your right . But hope all your prices are on -road.
Honda will surely increase prices of Next Gen City.
But then there are hardly any good cars at 6.5-7.5 lacs ,
after phasing out this model consumers will have less options
if the Next Gen City is priced above 8 L for base version.
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Old 23rd February 2008, 14:11   #28
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For sure they will be priced high.If i am not wrong it is more spacious than Fabia.Skoda Fabia fixed premium hatch as a new seagment for others to enter into same.So dont expect Hond jazz and Fiat Punto pricing will be same as swift or near to that.

Last edited by jerish666 : 23rd February 2008 at 14:15.
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Old 23rd February 2008, 16:47   #29
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Personally I don’t feel the Honda Jazz falls into the premium Hatchback category, but definitely its going to be overpriced if launched in India.

Jazz is the basic starting product for the Honda product line in Europe, which is aprox priced at Euro:12000 (INR: 710,877) wouldn’t be surprised if they are going to cling on the same price tag in India. To sell this baby successfully in India Honda has to price it below the City ( again, my personal view).
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Old 23rd February 2008, 19:24   #30
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Not to mention the anemic engine, as you put it, has amongst the lowest CO2 emissions in the world
Thats funny you have taken Al Gore's side on this. I shall go with on this one. I think Cows are responsible for the sinking of a few Caribbean islands. But are you sure about the 'lowest in the world' part? Run a few googles around.

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Yes it could be more powerful and they should have thrown in airbags and ABS.
You are a nice man.
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Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
But the sad truth is, most of us wouldn't pay more for those options and wouldn't want power at the cost of fuel efficiency. Honda knows where the sweet spot is.
Ignore what I just said. I don't want to die because Honda knows where the Sweet Spot is and I don't.

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And what's all this about a hatch with a boot stuck on?
Nothing. Who said it was, if it was done properly with a plan. I drove an Ikon 1.6 SXi for 3 years. And that was a brilliant car with bucket load of attitude

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I can safely attest the City is the first "good" car I've owned. I don't know much about Ford but I wouldn't buy a product from that company, considering the financial shape they are in. Skoda - nice cars but pricey to buy, own and maintain. The Civic? I like it and, granted, it is more powerful and safer than the NHC. But for that money I don't get a significantly bigger car/interior space than the NHC. The Civic is not as fuel efficient (sorry, got used to the champion) and has smaller boot (bad for airport runs). The way my car is used - those issues are important. I'm willing to compromise on boot space but not on fuel efficiency. Hence Im waiting for the Civic hybrid.
Ummm. That's some hardcore worship mate. And yes, John Travolta uses a Hybrid to potter around (when he is not in the cockpit of his 747). Big league stuff.

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Im surprised it felt underpowered because if that were the case, the car would have bombed in the US, but it's selling well there.
Aint it the same country of intellectually superior modern day humanoids who elected George W Bush Jr. to steer their country for the second term?

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Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
If the Indian Jazz gives high FE, good quality and space - it will sell.
11.75 kmpl should be classified as good, is that?
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Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
There are many more attributes that go with the Honda name.
I seem to get the idea that there may be books around this topic and I'm no book worm, so no clue. .
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