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Old 26th February 2008, 11:30   #16
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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
OFFTOPIC: The protruding waistlines of the Swift are the worst blind spots (IMO).
Agreed. Even in the 'What Car' section, newbies are advised against the Swift owing to this.
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Old 26th February 2008, 11:50   #17
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Originally Posted by ram_hyundai View Post
Hey we have had cars designed in peculiar ways before too.And in most casses it was safety which caused the design.Example would be matiz,were you wee not able to roll down the rear window fully.Reason was a cross member in the door.
Cross member or not, Matiz rear door does not have space to hold the window fully

We have discussed this time and again in TBHP. How I hate when I have to do the work that someone else should have done

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I feel there are people who doesnt matter some luxury for some safety.ram
What I fail to understand is the relation between small rear window and safety. If they are indeed inversely related, then why is Swift front windows bigger? Lack of safety?

Please enlighten us!!!
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Old 26th February 2008, 12:07   #18
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What I fail to understand is the relation between small rear window and safety.
I think that the rising waistline design may have something to do with aerodynamics.
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Old 26th February 2008, 12:58   #19
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Default rising waistline!

Doesn't skoda fabia have the same rising waist line? Personally, to me it looks very similar except for the front!
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Old 26th February 2008, 14:51   #20
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We can call it as the evolution. The new models are designed keeping the aerodynamics in mind and the trendy looks. Take any car, probable 6-7 years back all the cars had the round or square head light with blur head lights, later every model comes up with clear lens head lights in various shapes. Similarly body shape and the window shape. The windscreen becoming more and more wide and slant, lower roof towards the back, Rising waist line, soft edges.. etc.
Evolution of Honda City is the best example.

Honda CITY Pictures from Car Picture Gallery

Just look at any super cars like bugatti, ferrari .. etc we can see a tiny windows. It adds more to the aerodynamic shape of the overall body.

I guess the front window of Swift is also relatively small.
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Old 26th February 2008, 15:44   #21
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Safety or not,why did the manufacturers make a high waistline design.It can be one or more of the reasons quoted here.
Looks good,aerodynamics,safety,glass is costlier than metal,sun light inside is not preffered-havent you seen people running for shade in the afternoons.
Which ever reason it might be they have done it with a lot of reserch and investment.If anybody feels that it was a bad job done please justify yourself.
ram
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Old 26th February 2008, 16:15   #22
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Originally Posted by ram_hyundai View Post
Which ever reason it might be they have done it with a lot of reserch and investment.If anybody feels that it was a bad job done please justify yourself.
It doenst always mean that if a company spends lot of efforts in R&D they come out with the best product. And the problem multiply when a originally designed 2door hatchback is redesigned to a 4 door hatch or a stationwagon.

For example: The Ford Ikon is a sedan version of the Ford Fiesta MK5 in UK/Europe which is a hatchback. And when the Ford engineers converted this into a Sedan they screwed the rear door design and you always need to close it with some force. This is common among all Ford Ikons!

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Originally Posted by ram_hyundai View Post
Safety or not,why did the manufacturers make a high waistline design.It can be one or more of the reasons quoted here.
Looks good,aerodynamics,safety,glass is costlier than metal,sun light inside is not preffered-havent you seen people running for shade in the afternoons.
Doesnt sound too convincing. Your logic is like people running for shade in the afternoon, but they get into shades where they dont get enough ventilation and feel claustrophobic.
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Old 26th February 2008, 16:31   #23
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Originally Posted by ram_hyundai View Post
Safety or not,why did the manufacturers make a high waistline design.
All I asked is to justify the stand you had taken. It was you who introduced "smaller window for safety" concept. Now are you saying it has got nothing to do with safety? That is precisely what we are saying too.

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Originally Posted by ram_hyundai View Post
sun light inside is not preffered-havent you seen people running for shade in the afternoons.
Sunlight not prefered?? We prefer more light in the cabin. It is the heat that is not prefered. That is why modern cars have tinted glass with heat resistent capability. It would also be good to know steel absorbs heat faster than glass.

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Originally Posted by ram_hyundai View Post
Which ever reason it might be they have done it with a lot of reserch and investment
Indeed

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If anybody feels that it was a bad job done please justify yourself.ram
Please read through the thread, you shall find the justification.
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Old 26th February 2008, 20:09   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post

OFFTOPIC: The protruding waistlines of the Swift are the worst blind spots (IMO).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ram View Post
So, they chose to retrofit their two-door kei hatch designs.

Naturally, to the discerning taste, tuned in the developed world, these mutations feel like weirdos.

But so what, there is still money to be made from a huge, gullible, yet-to-growup market.

Ram

i completely agree with these two points and this is the end result.
though the maruti has given out these cars under cost cutting they have actually taken away alot more!, these common dash board designs the same instrument panel clusters, the same designs of ORVM on swift and sx4 and what not!

OT:
just make me wonder where did they manage to get the brakes from i mean which car's surplus, because they are really bad big time!, with the stock tyres they sure brake after hitting the object they are suppose to!

if you guys will just check out the width at rear for a swift its more at rear than the front, unlike my accent and the chevy uva its lesser at the rear and more at front! i seriously doubt if they have designed it this way for stability, but it being the other way around is a big newsense in the city the car's nose fits in but the rear gets hit!

this makes parking and driving in the stop gap traffic difficult and with out the ORVMs in swift its kind of impossible for me to drive the swift!


well even with all these negatives what made me buy the swift diesel you ask?

here is the answer, the excellent engine, and the car being one of the best handlers! and most of all its a maruti!(A.S.S. part!).


the claustrophobic part takes a lot of time to get use to and you never know, i mean you really cant see how far is the person traveling beside you from the tip of the eye you will have to turn the head to see how much distance is actually there! while in the other cars its the absence of the same makes me so comfortable in the viva!

Last edited by rider60 : 26th February 2008 at 20:17.
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Old 26th February 2008, 22:54   #25
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Originally Posted by ram View Post
@CrAzY dRiVeR, when world war two ended, most Japanese could not afford a full-sized car -- only a motorbike.
A young couple starting their life, could not afford any more than, a small frugal two-door hatch to commute within the inner-city. It suited their needs.
Japan relaxed the taxation and insurance, if the cars were dimunitive and had tiny engines (their Nanos, if you will).
That was the small Kei-car (keijidosha) market that Suzuki (Daihatsu, etc.) foresaw and targeted.
To try and squeeze a little more sales, especially in 'emerging' markets like India, they followed through with a four-door saloon variant -- an afterthought.
But India grew in importance as a target market.
Eventually, it dawned on them that, India wanted a four-door sedan with trunk, more than any other oddball.
They could have invested in designing a whole different four-door sedan (from scratch).
One with the sturdiness, passenger-room, luggage-capacity, power, longevity -- and most important -- affordability of the Ambassadors and Fiats.
But with their expensive design processes and manufacturing costs, not to mention Indian taxation, they wouldn't be able to match the pricing (VFM) of the Padminis and Ambassadors.
So, they chose to retrofit their two-door kei hatch designs.
Naturally, to the discerning taste, tuned in the developed world, these mutations feel like weirdos.
But so what, there is still money to be made from a huge, gullible, yet-to-growup market.
Ram
Ram, very nicely written- but i dont get the point of it all!

1. First of all- I agree about these companies adopting their small cars into sedans. We have had numerous examples in the past, present and even future. But we are talking about the swift hatch here, and not 'to-be-launched' swift sedan. Swift hatch was designed as a small car, and hence it a design flaw and not improper 'morphing' of rear door.

2. Nice info on kei-cars. But is the Swift a kei-car?
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Originally Posted by WhiteKnight View Post
@ CrAzY, you got it slightly wrong. The norms doesn't say "High". You got to have space between engine and bonnet to absorb the impact. XK8 and Civic are cases to point.
Remember reading it somewhere. I think i read it in connection with the S-class design. But you do have a point about these cars.
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Old 27th February 2008, 00:04   #26
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But, I like the way the 4-door car looks over the 2-door version !
Exactly! Even me!
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Originally Posted by ram View Post
But as customers, we in India are different.
Ram, its not only Indians buddy, this is sold in Europe as well.
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Originally Posted by rider60 View Post
OT:
just make me wonder where did they manage to get the brakes from i mean which car's surplus, because they are really bad big time!, with the stock tyres they sure brake after hitting the object they are suppose to!
I feel the brakes are adequate enough with good bite. I haven't driven the ABS version of the Swift, but once I was doing a 'top speed test'. I hit 165 and braked from that speed. The car sure felt like a skateboard(I have stock tires). But brakes are pretty much reassuring at about 130-140kmph on stock tires. Or am I missing something here?

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Originally Posted by rider60 View Post
if you guys will just check out the width at rear for a swift its more at rear than the front, unlike my accent and the chevy uva its lesser at the rear and more at front! i seriously doubt if they have designed it this way for stability, but it being the other way around is a big newsense in the city the car's nose fits in but the rear gets hit!
this makes parking and driving in the stop gap traffic difficult and with out the ORVMs in swift its kind of impossible for me to drive the swift!

the claustrophobic part takes a lot of time to get use to and you never know, i mean you really cant see how far is the person traveling beside you from the tip of the eye you will have to turn the head to see how much distance is actually there! while in the other cars its the absence of the same makes me so comfortable in the viva!
Yes! Swift is one of those cars where shape is driving factor and functionality takes a back seat. That is, if you like the looks of the Swift combined with its strengths, you will buy it with your eyes closed.

But its not only the Suzukis. Many newer cars have this design. Probably some automobile engineer here can explain the functional aspect of this kind of design
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Old 27th February 2008, 00:59   #27
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Wow! a passionate lot we have here at T-BHP!

Anyway, the safety angle I just dont get, unless its because there is less glass to break n injure passenger in case of accidents. If that is so, just do away with all windows and drive using viewing cameras mounted outside

Also from safety angle, in the SX4, the front windows hit below the waist, literally!

I dont buy "sun light inside is not preffered" argument either. I mean this is India, heat is a part of our life. Yes we like things cool, thats why all the sun film chappies do brisk business.

I'm not asking for a glass house on wheels like the Wagon R (which i'm driving down from Bangalore back home to Mumbai this weekend - which means I miss the Speed Run ), but something better than the dingy insides of the swift. Whats worse, the new Splash promises more of the same - swift style.
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Old 27th February 2008, 01:02   #28
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Originally Posted by ram_hyundai View Post
this is not a theme with MSIL alone.all the cars on the fray are using it,seems like you dint see the new i10.its also in the same line of design.maybe it has some safety aspect also.
ram
Seriously, Ram, and no offence to the designers, but I took a look at the front of the i10 and didn't even want to look at the rest of it.

So no, I haven't looked very closely at the i10's sides yet.
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Old 27th February 2008, 01:33   #29
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The New Mini which was an inpiration for the swift doesn't have such a slanting waistline.Althought the space in the rear seat isn't upto the mark (its a 2 dor after all) its not claustrophobic.

In contrast if you check a Civic hatch sold in UK, you will know that the swift offers more view from the rear seat. That car is widely complimented for its looks. Given that their lifestyle does not make use of the rear seat as much as we do.

Given the above information I see no problem with the swift selling in Europe. But then, would they redesign a bodyshell just for one Indian market where the rear seat is so worshipped, is a matter of debate. I can see some people telling me that the European Civic was not launched in India. To which my answer would be that they did not design the bodyshell of the Indian Civic for India only.

Last edited by 1100D : 27th February 2008 at 01:35.
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Old 27th February 2008, 10:02   #30
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Yes! Swift is one of those cars where shape is driving factor and functionality takes a back seat. That is, if you like the looks of the Swift combined with its strengths, you will buy it with your eyes closed.
What are the strengths? I see a lot of threads which discuss about the safety concerns, build quality issues and now the rear passenger feeling claustrophobic thread. I feel the DDiS engine to be the only strength as of now in my opinion.

If you could enlighten me with the strength of the Swift it would be great!

OFFTOPIC:
IMO i hate the looks of the Swift and the design which carries a lot of blind spots with it. These blind spots in the Swift are considerably fine if you are driving abroad where other drivers and people are more disciplined. Not good for our Indian conditions!
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