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Old 24th February 2008, 13:34   #1
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Default Common theme to new Suzuki small car designs

Looking at the new small cars from MUL & Suzuki starting from the Swift to Splash to the Cervo, a common design theme is to have the side window sills increasing in height going from front doors to the rear.

The net effect that I have felt from this -sitting in the Swift - is that the driver and front passenger feel like they are in a roomy cabin. However, this design leaves very little window space for passengers in the rear seat.

Add to that the really, really small rear window (with rear headrests up) and passengers at the rear feel quite claustrophobic. To me the interior feel of the swift was a huge turn off when compared to the fantastic view ALL passengers get when sitting in a Wagon R.

So my question is, it may look nice from the outside but is this design style really worth carrying across the whole range of new small cars from MUL & Suzuki?

Mods: Please move this to an appropriate forum or merge with a similar existing thread if one exists.
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Old 25th February 2008, 10:44   #2
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this is not a theme with MSIL alone.all the cars on the fray are using it,seems like you dint see the new i10.its also in the same line of design.maybe it has some safety aspect also.
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Old 25th February 2008, 14:08   #3
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maybe it has some safety aspect also.
ram
@Ram: Dont get me wrong, i dont understand the safety aspect of making the rear passenger feel claustrophobic!

May be if you could explain this unique safety feature i wud be delighted!
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Old 25th February 2008, 14:23   #4
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Hey bro,its a maybe -Since the new cars are following that trend it might have something in it.Or else we should believe all manufacturers have decided to put the rear passengers in a claustrophobic environment.
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Old 25th February 2008, 14:40   #5
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@Ram: Dont get me wrong, i dont understand the safety aspect of making the rear passenger feel claustrophobic!

May be if you could explain this unique safety feature i wud be delighted!
I dont think making the rear passengers feel claustrophobic is the idea here. The rising waistlines are more towards increasing safety by providing more metal area on the doors.
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Old 25th February 2008, 15:01   #6
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The net effect that I have felt from this -sitting in the Swift - is that the driver and front passenger feel like they are in a roomy cabin. However, this design leaves very little window space for passengers in the rear seat.
In the age of Cab forward designs and interior space maximization practiced by most car makers, Suzuki was able to make a car that is much wider than Esteem (good 115mm), but doesn't have space inside. The beauty is that they were able to sell it.

Now what do you expect them to do next

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The rising waistlines are more towards increasing safety by providing more metal area on the doors.
Isn't it a bit too much to believe that for more than a century no car maker thought about raising waistline for increased safety, till Suzuki had a brainwave?
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Old 25th February 2008, 15:03   #7
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Isn't it a bit too much to believe that for more than a century no car maker thought about raising waistline for increased safety, till Suzuki had a brainwave?
Brainwave or not, i dont know. But i was just giving an answer to the question posed earlier. I believe its not just Suzuki who are going that way, though.
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Old 25th February 2008, 17:00   #8
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Default When you force a 4-door config. on a 2-door design...

Friends, I have the following to offer, by way of explanation.

The illustrious designer, intended cars this tiny, to be cute two door coupes.






But as customers, we in India are different.

From big four door Chrysler products (Dodge Kingsways and Plymouth Savoys and Belvederes), we've spiralled down to four door HM products (Landmasters and Ambassadors) and further down to four door Fiat/Premier (1100/Padmini) products. In the deep recesses of our mindsets, good cars are still, four-door family cars.

So the developed world designers, were forced to morph the rear quarter panel of their two-door cuties to somehow accommodate rear doors, for us and people like us.

Naturally, the result of avoiding a complete redesign, is a four-door car which looks like a compromised two-door car.

A cramped rear, an unsafe, tiny rear window, too small to crawl out of in an accident and chunky ugliness.



I rest my case.

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Old 25th February 2008, 17:25   #9
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Naturally, the result of avoiding a complete redesign, is a four-door car which looks like a compromised two-door car.

But, I like the way the 4-door car looks over the 2-door version !
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Old 25th February 2008, 21:53   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfhelm View Post
Looking at the new small cars from MUL & Suzuki starting from the Swift to Splash to the Cervo, a common design theme is to have the side window sills increasing in height going from front doors to the rear.

The net effect that I have felt from this -sitting in the Swift - is that the driver and front passenger feel like they are in a roomy cabin. However, this design leaves very little window space for passengers in the rear seat.

Add to that the really, really small rear window (with rear headrests up) and passengers at the rear feel quite claustrophobic. To me the interior feel of the swift was a huge turn off when compared to the fantastic view ALL passengers get when sitting in a Wagon R.


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@Ram: Dont get me wrong, i dont understand the safety aspect of making the rear passenger feel claustrophobic!

May be if you could explain this unique safety feature i wud be delighted!

completely agree to both your points. talk about claustrophobia. man i feel terrible sitting in the front itself. roominess is only without air. for air, you have to lower the windows. and still its claustrophobic. sometimes i get a feeling i m sitting in a well and driving around

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I dont think making the rear passengers feel claustrophobic is the idea here. The rising waistlines are more towards increasing safety by providing more metal area on the doors.
it very much is. i drive 1200kms per month and i really can feel it day in and out. the palio is a much better car in terms of outside visibility and air movement within. so also is perhaps the getz and such hatch backs.
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Old 25th February 2008, 22:25   #11
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Nowadays, high and steep rising bonnets are becoming common to meet European pedestrian impact norms. A high bonnet would also mean a high waistline. To make a car handle as well as the swift does, the overall height of the car also has to be kept in check. Where does this leave room for large rear windows?

As someone has mentioned WagonR, it has large glass areas and good airy feeling. But this is not much due to the length of windows, but the height of the windows which also make the WagonR looks very much boxy/squarish.
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Friends, I have the following to offer, by way of explanation.The illustrious designer, intended cars this tiny, to be cute two door coupes. the developed world designers, were forced to morph the rear quarter panel of their two-door cuties to somehow accommodate rear doors, for us and people like us.

Doesn't it sound funny that a company like Suzuki, which survives on the small car market, asked a designer to design a two door coupe instead of the larger selling four dour version. Only later on, to realise they need to 'morph' another two doors at the rear!

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 25th February 2008 at 22:28.
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Old 26th February 2008, 09:20   #12
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Doesn't it sound funny that a company like Suzuki, which survives on the small car market, asked a designer to design a two door coupe instead of the larger selling four dour version. Only later on, to realise they need to 'morph' another two doors at the rear!
@CrAzY dRiVeR, when world war two ended, most Japanese could not afford a full-sized car -- only a motorbike.

A young couple starting their life, could not afford any more than, a small frugal two-door hatch to commute within the inner-city. It suited their needs.

Japan relaxed the taxation and insurance, if the cars were dimunitive and had tiny engines (their Nanos, if you will).

That was the small Kei-car (keijidosha) market that Suzuki (Daihatsu, etc.) foresaw and targeted.

To try and squeeze a little more sales, especially in 'emerging' markets like India, they followed through with a four-door saloon variant -- an afterthought.

But India grew in importance as a target market.
Eventually, it dawned on them that, India wanted a four-door sedan with trunk, more than any other oddball.

They could have invested in designing a whole different four-door sedan (from scratch).
One with the sturdiness, passenger-room, luggage-capacity, power, longevity -- and most important -- affordability of the Ambassadors and Fiats.

But with their expensive design processes and manufacturing costs, not to mention Indian taxation, they wouldn't be able to match the pricing (VFM) of the Padminis and Ambassadors.

So, they chose to retrofit their two-door kei hatch designs.

Naturally, to the discerning taste, tuned in the developed world, these mutations feel like weirdos.

But so what, there is still money to be made from a huge, gullible, yet-to-growup market.

Ram
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Old 26th February 2008, 10:12   #13
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Nowadays, high and steep rising bonnets are becoming common to meet European pedestrian impact norms. A high bonnet would also mean a high waistline.
@ CrAzY, you got it slightly wrong. The norms doesn't say "High". You got to have space between engine and bonnet to absorb the impact. XK8 and Civic are cases to point.
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Old 26th February 2008, 10:39   #14
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Hey we have had cars designed in peculiar ways before too.And in most casses it was safety which caused the design.Example would be matiz,were you wee not able to roll down the rear window fully.Reason was a cross member in the door.
If people feel its too cramped at the rear due to the 4-door design or a higher door at the rear they have other designs or cars to choose from.
I feel there are people who doesnt matter some luxury for some safety.
ram
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Old 26th February 2008, 11:25   #15
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Hey we have had cars designed in peculiar ways before too.And in most casses it was safety which caused the design.Example would be matiz,were you wee not able to roll down the rear window fully.Reason was a cross member in the door.
If people feel its too cramped at the rear due to the 4-door design or a higher door at the rear they have other designs or cars to choose from.
I feel there are people who doesnt matter some luxury for some safety.
ram
I think we are discussing about cars which are big enough and have the provision to completely pull down the rear windows and still making the rear passenger feel claustrophobic. I feel comparing a Matiz is not fair.

IMO its a major safety constraint when there is a get away situation with your door jammed in case of any emergencies. Correct me if i am wrong!

And i have struggled a lot in reversing a Swift. I normally open the door while i reverse.

OFFTOPIC: The protruding waistlines of the Swift are the worst blind spots (IMO).
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