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Old 1st March 2008, 09:14   #76
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As per CNBC TV 18 Swift Diesel price reduced by Rs 18k. GM planning to refund the excess amount charged to ppl who bought their small cars after Feb 11.
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Old 1st March 2008, 10:40   #77
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Originally Posted by MADMAX111 View Post
As per CNBC TV 18 Swift Diesel price reduced by Rs 18k. GM planning to refund the excess amount charged to ppl who bought their small cars after Feb 11.

Anyone got idea abt Swift Petrol reduction. Because i have booked it a month back
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Old 1st March 2008, 10:52   #78
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I dont think there is a reduction in swift petrol as it falls above the 1.2 ltr category.Wait and watch what MSIL has in store.You will know more in 2 days.
ram
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Old 1st March 2008, 11:03   #79
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With this reduction in diesel Swift prices, expect another 2 months to be added to the existing 6 months delivery time.
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Old 1st March 2008, 11:04   #80
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Default Budget 2008- Farm loan waiver- some thoughts

Subsidies to industries especially Software

1. No Corporate tax since last 10-15 years till 2009-10

did any one calculated how much tax revenue govt has foregone by doing this. If one takes into account the profits software firms earning- i think this will run into more than 60k farm waiver

2 subsidies in local taxes, tax holidays, power etc etc - cost of these aminities

3 loans at lower rates like 6-8% for industries from banks. compare this with average interest rate charged by banks on farm loans 12-16%

4 loan waiver of industries in the last 20 years by banks as bad loans. conservative estimate minimum 1.5 lakh crores

Now subsidies software or industry or some govt employees enjoy

1. subsidy in home loan interest rates

many of us were given home loans @ 7-7.5% fixed for 15-20 years.

this was at a time when general public was not given this benefit.

they were given at the most 8-8.25% fixed for three years only.

for every 1% reduction in the interest rates total savings will be around 1 lakh over 15 year period.

do you think banks took this loss in their books. they increased the floating loan rates to general public to 12-13% to compensate this loss.

then who is subsidizing whom?

when a farmer and general public finds it difficult to get credit at 12% , highly paid
guys get at 7.5%. is it justified?

Yes govt should improve the support systems for agriculture rather than such one time
waivers.

like efficient marketing mechanism for farmers where in they get more than 50% of consumer price instead of less than 25% they are getting now.
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Old 1st March 2008, 11:48   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkg View Post
Subsidies to industries especially Software

1. No Corporate tax since last 10-15 years till 2009-10

did any one calculated how much tax revenue govt has foregone by doing this. If one takes into account the profits software firms earning- i think this will run into more than 60k farm waiver

2 subsidies in local taxes, tax holidays, power etc etc - cost of these aminities
Govt would have received much more from IT then it paid in terms of subsidies.

Employee salaries are one of biggest expenses for IT, govt gets a 20 - 24 % tax out of that.

And each rupee that is spent by employee/employer govt gets loads of indirect taxes in form of service tax from that.
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Old 1st March 2008, 12:20   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkg View Post
Subsidies to industries especially Software

1. No Corporate tax since last 10-15 years till 2009-10

did any one calculated how much tax revenue govt has foregone by doing this. If one takes into account the profits software firms earning- i think this will run into more than 60k farm waiver
Govt has earned more DIRECTLY from s/w industry via direct personal taxes, forex inflows.
INDIRECTLY - IT folks are biggest consumers - buying houses, cars, electronics, mobiles, latest clothes & using services like airlines, couriers, health etc. Govt gets taxes on all these. in turn, this fuels industries like manufacturing, cement, construciton, automobiles, textiles, steel etc thereby helping these industries grow.

india has seen this high growth because of IT industry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkg View Post
2 subsidies in local taxes, tax holidays, power etc etc - cost of these aminities

3 loans at lower rates like 6-8% for industries from banks. compare this with average interest rate charged by banks on farm loans 12-16%

4 loan waiver of industries in the last 20 years by banks as bad loans. conservative estimate minimum 1.5 lakh crores
farmers get these subsidies as well - low cost of diesel , subsidy on farm equipment, subsidized seeds and fertilizers, lower interest rates on agriculture loans, free water and electricity. Above that they do not pay income tax on their profits.

Not a surprise that farmers in punjab, gujrat drive scorpios, safaris & skodas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkg View Post
1. subsidy in home loan interest rates

many of us were given home loans @ 7-7.5% fixed for 15-20 years.

this was at a time when general public was not given this benefit.

they were given at the most 8-8.25% fixed for three years only.

for every 1% reduction in the interest rates total savings will be around 1 lakh over 15 year period.

do you think banks took this loss in their books. they increased the floating loan rates to general public to 12-13% to compensate this loss.

then who is subsidizing whom?
your facts & logic are completey wrong. Banks have RPLR and they have to give loans based on that. RPLR is derived from their cost of funds and there is no subsidy built into that.

Banks cannot discriminate between 2 individuals. BUT, banks find it easier to give a loan to an employed individual as he has a steady income and less risk of non-payment. With farmers & businessman, they are affected by market conditions and hence more risk of lending.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkg View Post
Yes govt should improve the support systems for agriculture rather than such one time waivers.
like efficient marketing mechanism for farmers where in they get more than 50% of consumer price instead of less than 25% they are getting now.
You have finally hit the nail on the head. Its a very simple profit and loss situation for farmers. Their farm produce has to give them more returns than their cost, then only the condition of farmers will improve. A 1 time waiver will not increase their returns and you cannot reduce their cost beyond a certain point.

Instead the govt should have -

1. ensure water for irrigation is available
2. electricity is available
3. fertilizer and seeds are available easily &not siphoned off to create artificial scarcity
4. banks give loans to farmers and dont turn them away, thereby pushing them to moneylenders
5. advise farmers on what crops to grow and how..(govt has 100's of institues for agriculture but then why does farmers in vidarbha are unable to grow crops profitably, unlike lets say punjab and haryana?)
6. remove middlemen and agents who pocket most of the remuneration
7. encourage farmer co-op societies so farmers can form a bloc and directly sell their produce.

If you look at punjab, haryana, gujrat, rajasthan, southern states, maharashtra (sugarcane belt)...you will see lots of farmers success stories. Govt should try to replicate that in other areas (like vidarbha, bundelkhand) instead of coming up with such populist schemes which will not make a difference in the long run.

Last edited by LLL : 1st March 2008 at 12:22.
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Old 1st March 2008, 12:26   #83
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Originally Posted by ram_hyundai View Post
I dont think there is a reduction in swift petrol as it falls above the 1.2 ltr category.Wait and watch what MSIL has in store.You will know more in 2 days.
ram

Ram , Kindly ellaborate on that matter. Even Swift D is 1.3 l. Im sorry i did not
follow the budget closely yday thats y asking if there is some reduction
in Swift petrol
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Old 1st March 2008, 12:32   #84
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Sorry Ram , I just came across the info :-

price of Petrol Swift might not be slashed. Small car as per Budget readings is cars w/ Engine less than 1.2 ltrs for petrol and 1.5 ltrs for diesel. Swift P does not fall in this category.
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Old 1st March 2008, 13:07   #85
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Here you go..Budget highlights from Network 18
RapidShare: 1-Click Webhosting
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Old 1st March 2008, 13:09   #86
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[quote]Govt has earned more DIRECTLY from s/w industry via direct personal taxes, forex inflows.
INDIRECTLY - IT folks are biggest consumers - buying houses, cars, electronics, mobiles, latest clothes & using services like airlines, couriers, health etc. Govt gets taxes on all these. in turn, this fuels industries like manufacturing, cement, construciton, automobiles, textiles, steel etc thereby helping these industries grow.

india has seen this high growth because of IT industry[quote]

that does not mean IT companies need not pay Corporate tax. Reliance /bajaj/TATA motors do pay corporate tax and their employees pay Income tax too. it is not the only IT guy who I Tax in this country. every salaried guy has to pay. no escape route.
I Tax paid by individual is based on what he/she earns. the more one earns the more one has to pay. it is a percentage of the income. the rate is same every one in same salary bracket be it IT guy or other Guy
I do reiterate that the corporate tax dole out IT companies may be more than 60K if some one who has access can compile the data

Last edited by rkg : 1st March 2008 at 13:15. Reason: spell check
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Old 1st March 2008, 13:22   #87
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[quote=rkg;742138][quote]Govt has earned more DIRECTLY from s/w industry via direct


quote=LLL;742089]Govt has earned more DIRECTLY from s/w industry via direct personal taxes, forex inflows.
INDIRECTLY - IT folks are biggest consumers - buying houses, cars, electronics, mobiles, latest clothes & using services like airlines, couriers, health etc. Govt gets taxes on all these. in turn, this fuels industries like manufacturing, cement, construciton, automobiles, textiles, steel etc thereby helping these industries grow.

india has seen this high growth because of IT industry[quote=LLL;742089]

that does not mean IT companies need not pay Corporate tax. Reliance /bajaj/TATA motors do pay corporate tax and their employees pay Income tax too. it is not the only IT guy who I Tax in this country. every salaried guy has to pay. no escape route.
I Tax paid by individual is based on what he/she earns. the more one earns the more one has to pay. it is a percentage of the income. the rate is same every one in same salary bracket be it IT guy or other Guy
I do reiterate that the corporate tax dole out IT companies may be more than 60K if some one who has access can compile the data

[quote=LLL;742089]farmers get these subsidies as well - subsidy on farm equipment, subsidized fertilizers[quote=LLL;742089]
Goes to industry not to the farmer. allow free imports. farmer will benefit more. govt is subsidising the inefficient industires in India
[quote=LLL;742089] lower interest rates on agriculture loans[quote=LLL;742089]
DO you know what is the rate at whcih farmers get credit? it is around 12-16%. Is this is subsidized rate against 7.5% rate given to highly paid guys

[quote=LLL;742089] free water and electricity[quote=LLL;742089]

can you show where it is free. farmers are charged water usage rate now a days

[quote=LLL;742089]Above that they do not pay income tax on their profits[quote=LLL;742089]

when the income is less than a lakh per year where is the question of Income tax . or in your book they are not entitled to minimum tax free income like us. don't compare with corporate farmers who are taking advantage of the free agriculture income. average Indian farmer ( more than 65-70%) are small and marginal farmers with less than 2 Ha land which does not give you an income of one lakh per year if he is growing cereal like paddy.wheat. if he is growing cash crops may be he will get more than a lakh

[quote=LLL;742089]Not a surprise that farmers in punjab, gujrat drive scorpios, safaris & skodas[quote=LLL;742089]

Punjab got the benefit of irrigation projects of early independence

Gujarat is mostly cash crops + dairy income form Milk co-operatives ( steady source of income like salaried)



[quote=LLL;742089]your facts & logic are completey wrong. Banks have RPLR and they have to give loans based on that. RPLR is derived from their cost of funds and there is no subsidy built into that

Banks cannot discriminate between 2 individuals. BUT, banks find it easier to give a loan to an employed individual as he has a steady income and less risk of non-payment. With farmers & businessman, they are affected by market conditions and hence more risk of lending[quote=LLL;742089]

Kindly check the facts. bank RPLR is hogwash. i have seen loan sanction letters of Wipro and infy employees from SBI/ICICI and other banks stating rate of interest at 7.5% fixed for 15 years in 2004-2005. this is when govt employees and other small company guys were offered loans at Min 7.5% floating only. even today banks offer reduced rates to software guys when others are charged 12-13%



[quote=LLL;742089] ensure water for irrigation is available [quote=LLL;742089]
HOW!!!!!!
what is investment in irrigation by govt in the last twenty years. compare this with tax holidays give to industires
[quote=LLL;742089]electricity is available [quote=LLL;742089]

Kindly visit or stay in some village and see how much electricity farmer gets per day.
to meet the uninterrupted power needs of industry power supply was highly regulated to rural areas. they do not get three phase supply for 2-3 hours continuously. how do they run water pumps to irrigate fields.

what is the investment in newer power generation by govt in the last 20 years

In AP between 1994-1997 power supply to villages was 2-3 hours day throughout the year. residential areas in cities 6-7 hours cut. but industrial areas no cut at all throughout the year. i personally experienced it in HYD

[quote=LLL;742089] fertilizer and seeds are available easily &not siphoned off to create artificial scarcity[quote=LLL;742089]

Both these are under private sector only. role of govt is only as regulator. support to govt research organisation was curtailed since 1990's. they were told to do research no need to produce seeds. private companies will do seed production. so the private companies produced spurious seeds for greater profits
[quote=LLL;742089]banks give loans to farmers and don't turn them away[quote=LLL;742089]

this is correct.now also major beneficiaries of budget are rich farmers who has access to banks. may be less than 30% Small and marginal farmer may get benefit
[quote=LLL;742089] advise farmers on what crops to grow and how..(govt has 100's of institues for agriculture but then why does farmers in vidarbha are unable to grow crops profitably, unlike lets say punjab and haryana?[quote=LLL;742089]

govt organization do advise farmers. but who listens to them when the private companies place huge ads and advertise huge profits only to lure more into a particular crop - this leads to bumper supply and less price to farmer. more profit to middle man and companies.
what is the budget of extension wings of agriculture dept against this onslaught by private sector
[quote=LLL;742089] remove middlemen and agents who pocket most of the
remuneration[quote=LLL;742089]

can you give some ideas about how to do it

Moderators iam unable to multi quote it. can you please do it. or else delete the post

Last edited by rkg : 1st March 2008 at 13:24.
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Old 1st March 2008, 18:57   #88
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Quote:
DO you know what is the rate at whcih farmers get credit? it is around 12-16%. Is this is subsidized rate against 7.5% rate given to highly paid guys
I challenge you to get me a loan @ 7.5%

You are writing for sake of writing. Just FYI...these are the interest rates for agriculture:

STATE BANK OF INDIA :: INDIA's LARGEST BANK

Last edited by LLL : 1st March 2008 at 18:58.
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Old 1st March 2008, 19:19   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LLL View Post
I challenge you to get me a loan @ 7.5%

You are writing for sake of writing. Just FYI...these are the interest rates for agriculture:

STATE BANK OF INDIA :: INDIA's LARGEST BANK
kindly go through my post.i have specifically mentioned that in 2004-05 when general public were not offered 15/20 year fixed loans, they were offered to IT guys at 7.25%

the problem with most IT guys is they are not aware of outside realities. they think it same for every one. otherwise you would not have posted that IT guys pay more Income tax.
all the companies pay corporate tax and their employees pay IT.

can you deny that there are corporate discounts for IT and other company ,PSU employees in car prices? Do you think it is offered to general public and also to many govt employees? Isn't that subsidy financed by general public . because the companies are not reimbursing the corp. discount to Auto companies. if it is for all the profit margins of Auto companies will come down correspondinly

Similarly when one applies for Home loan or any loan there is discount in processing fee for IT and other Guys and not for general public? are you aware of it?

Kindly go to any bank ( PSU or private ) and ask for loan stating your are govt employee or a general public. get the rates and processing fee and then ask them for the rates for preferred IT companies like Infy or Wipro.

what is mentioned in web sites is only for reference. actual rates are different

Kindly check through the SBI link given by you and see for yourself what is rate for agri loans 5 lakhs and above it is 11.25% for three years and 11.75% for above three years.

now from the same site Home loan rates

upto 20 lakhs and 15 years 10.25 % ( there discounts availble and some are mentioned in the website itself)
no where in india rural housing costs are higher than urban rates. so a urban customer gets loan for longer tenure for a lesser rate than a farmer for shorter duration

Last edited by rkg : 1st March 2008 at 19:31. Reason: spell check
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Old 1st March 2008, 21:45   #90
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Well, I am in IT but do not work in an IT company. Best interest rates are not reserved for poor IT guys. Even with 5 years workex,average IT developer would be making less then 15 L per year.

Its IIT BTech + Stanford/Cornell/Howard MBAs that get 110% funding + attractive rates for home loans.
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