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Old 1st March 2008, 22:05   #91
rkg
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the question or point of debate is not over IT guys and what benefits they are getting

it is over farm loan waiver.

what i mean to say is other well of sections also getting subsidies. sometimes even more than farmers.

the present situation in india is "the bigger you are in terms of money /politicalpower the more benefits one gets"

As far as i know and seen almost any one working in Wipro/ infy etc have got home loans at 7.25- 7.5% fixed for 15- 20 years during 2004-05 from ICICI and SBI ( two specific cases i know personally.both are not IIT grads, average IT guys only not top level.)
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Old 1st March 2008, 22:57   #92
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ICICI and SBI are not doing public service by giving 7.5% loans. Rates are low because default rates are negligible in case of MNC employees. And even if someone defaults banks can get there money back easily PLUS can grab PF account of employee if sale of home does not recover loan principal + recovery cost.

And non-IT guys in my company got even better deal.


Another point is, farmers get electricity + water free of cost. At lest in my native village, State electricity board officials can't enter village to recover bills. They are lynched publicly if they dare.
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Old 2nd March 2008, 00:44   #93
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As far as i know and seen almost any one working in Wipro/ infy etc have got home loans at 7.25- 7.5% fixed for 15- 20 years during 2004-05 from ICICI and SBI ( two specific cases i know personally.both are not IIT grads, average IT guys only not top level.)
OT, but wasn't 7 - 8% the prevalent rate in 2004-05. I have IT seniors who had interest rates in the range of 6%.
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Old 2nd March 2008, 06:56   #94
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Tata has slashed prices of indica from Rs.8500 to Rs.14600 and Indigo CS by Rs.12700 to Rs.15300.
Diesel Fabia's price cut around 18000 .

Source : The Hindu News Update Service
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Old 2nd March 2008, 10:53   #95
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Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
ICICI and SBI are not doing public service by giving 7.5% loans. Rates are low because default rates are negligible in case of MNC employees. And even if someone defaults banks can get there money back easily PLUS can grab PF account
Housing loans are "Secured" Loans .

That means the Bank goes through the documentation of the house, values it and then offers a loan which is usually 80 - 90% of its current market value . That too AFTER you sign away the ownership of your new house to the banks name !!

They recover their money by attaching and selling the house , if there is a default. It does not matter whether you make your money in IT , non IT or by selling bhelpuri on the streets. The risk profile is same for all housing loans ( very minimal ) and banks cover it before disbursing the money.

And No bank can grab your PF or personal savings account.

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Old 2nd March 2008, 11:20   #96
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Banks usually can not recover 100% remaining premium in case of default. Reason is homes sold in auction usually get lower prices then market value. And recovery process generates bad press.

Another risk is fall in property price itself. Example is US Subprime mess.

So, banks prefer customers with lower risks of default. And they are offered better rates and terms (cause other banks want them as well). And even if they default, they can be given options to balloon their payments with LIC policies or surrender PF in place of home.

I have car loan from the bank where I have salary account so I got some advantages Got 100 % on-road loan for Alto with 9.75 interest rate.
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Old 2nd March 2008, 11:48   #97
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Originally Posted by prkumar27 View Post
OT, but wasn't 7 - 8% the prevalent rate in 2004-05. I have IT seniors who had interest rates in the range of 6%.
Correct. smart folks took fixed interest loans while others took floating rates.

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Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
ICICI and SBI are not doing public service by giving 7.5% loans. Rates are low because default rates are negligible in case of MNC employees.
Spot on again. In addition, most of IT guys prepay their loans. That way, HFC's get their funds back quicker and can lend again to make more profits.

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Originally Posted by rkg View Post
the question or point of debate is not over IT guys and what benefits they are getting

it is over farm loan waiver.

what i mean to say is other well of sections also getting subsidies. sometimes even more than farmers.

the present situation in india is "the bigger you are in terms of money /politicalpower the more benefits one gets"

As far as i know and seen almost any one working in Wipro/ infy etc have got home loans at 7.25- 7.5% fixed for 15- 20 years during 2004-05 from ICICI and SBI ( two specific cases i know personally.both are not IIT grads, average IT guys only not top level.)
rkg - 1 thing..most of IT companies have tie-ups with PRIVATE banks. These banks do not give any subsidy. They are in the business of making profits and find it easier to deal with IT guys due to least rick profile. So all your arguments about banks providing subsidies is wrong.

Regarding farm waiver:

The growth story is intact: Chidambaram- Interviews-Opinion-The Economic Times

Quote:
How does the relief to the farmer work out? How will the Rs 60,000 crore be provided for? What do you mean by providing liquidity to the banks?

Please remember this is money out of the banking system. Some of it is already overdue, already non-performing assets. So banks are al-ready unsure as to how much of this Rs 60,000 crore would come back to them. So, let me write off the loans and we agree to provide liquidity of the equivalent amount to the banks.

The banks are welcoming this arrangement, because they will have fresh liquidity to lend. So we will only have to work out the systems and we will do so to pro-vide equivalent amount of liquidity over a period of three years
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Old 2nd March 2008, 12:13   #98
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And No bank can grab your PF or personal savings account.
spot on. PF are gaurenteed by law. nobody even govt can not attach the PF a/c even if one defaluts the loans.those in doubt check the PF rules and regulations
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Old 2nd March 2008, 12:25   #99
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Originally Posted by LLL View Post
Correct. smart folks took fixed interest loans while others took floating rates.


Spot on again. In addition, most of IT guys prepay their loans. That way, HFC's get their funds back quicker and can lend again to make more profits.



rkg - 1 thing..most of IT companies have tie-ups with PRIVATE banks. These banks do not give any subsidy. They are in the business of making profits and find it easier to deal with IT guys due to least rick profile. So all your arguments about banks providing subsidies is wrong.

Regarding farm waiver:

The growth story is intact: Chidambaram- Interviews-Opinion-The Economic Times
Mr LLL
if you happen to be in bangalore any time kindly send me a PM. i will show the sanction orders of SBI and ICICI of same period with different rates to IT and not IT guys

Regarding risk, check with any bank official how they evaluate the risk. or go through the forum where in one IT guy is facing problem to get car loan because he is not married.

for banks a guy with greater mobility is greater risk( Most It guys fall in this category as they have more opportunities and they do change jobs frequently)

prepaying is most dependent on individual's risk appatite. defaulters are there in all sections of population.

AS W12 pointed out home loans are the least risk category loans.

My intention is to show all sections do get subsidies from govt. then why crib about farmers only?

if one takes average IT rebate in 2008 budget as Rs 10000/ per individual( range is 4120- 49852) total one crore taxpayers - it works out to 10000 crores rebate/subsidy whatever you call it.it is for every year from now. this is a rough estimate

The Hindu Business Line : Relief for all taxpayers

Last edited by rkg : 2nd March 2008 at 12:28.
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Old 2nd March 2008, 12:34   #100
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Originally Posted by rkg View Post
spot on. PF are gaurenteed by law. nobody even govt can not attach the PF a/c even if one defaluts the loans.those in doubt check the PF rules and regulations
Law says banks can't "forcefully" attach PF or farm land.

But if someone is facing prospect of loosing hie/her home, that person would be more then willing to balloon the mortgage that person will usually agree to surrender PF or investment oriented LIC policies.
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Old 2nd March 2008, 12:38   #101
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Regarding risk, check with any bank official how they evaluate the risk. or go through the forum where in one IT guy is facing problem to get car loan because he is not married.
Thats spot on. For banks, IT or Non-IT does not matter.

As I mentioned, I don't work for IT company but employees from this company get preferential rates since they have good credit profile.

And Non-IT departments get better rates (cause of Ivy league MBAs/Fat paycheques etc etc).
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Old 2nd March 2008, 14:08   #102
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Mr LLL
if you happen to be in bangalore any time kindly send me a PM. i will show the sanction orders of SBI and ICICI of same period with different rates to IT and not IT guys
At one side you say that IT guys get preferential treatment. And then you give an example of an IT guy who is struggling to get a car loan. Pls make up your mind first.

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Originally Posted by rkg View Post
Regarding risk, check with any bank official how they evaluate the risk. or go through the forum where in one IT guy is facing problem to get car loan because he is not married.
Bull****. Can you show that letter from bank which says they are not giving a loan because he is married?

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for banks a guy with greater mobility is greater risk( Most It guys fall in this category as they have more opportunities and they do change jobs frequently)
yes, thats correct but only 1 side of the picture. Banks wont give a loan if you are new to a job, but they will give you a loan if they have your salary account or corporate relationship with your company Or you have a long-standing account with this bank or your credit history is good.

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Originally Posted by rkg View Post
prepaying is most dependent on individual's risk appatite. defaulters are there in all sections of population.
Prepaying & Risk? I thought prepaying was cutting down your risk, reducing your interest payout. Defaulters are there in every section, but %ages are different.

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Originally Posted by rkg View Post
My intention is to show all sections do get subsidies from govt. then why crib about farmers only?
No one is cribbing about farmers. No one is complaining about subsidies which help the farmers.

What we are cribbing about is these 1 time doles which do not do any good to anyone.

By end of next year, farmers will again be debt-ridden with no means of repaying the new loans back.
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Old 2nd March 2008, 15:41   #103
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Originally Posted by ram_hyundai View Post
I dont think there is a reduction in swift petrol as it falls above the 1.2 ltr category.Wait and watch what MSIL has in store.You will know more in 2 days.
ram
emm, the Dezire is gonna be launched eh?

Quote:
Tata has slashed price
s of indica from Rs.8500 to Rs.14600 and Indigo CS by Rs.12700 to Rs.15300.
This is good.
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Old 3rd March 2008, 00:36   #104
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What about Cost reduction for Fiat Palio stile 1.1 and upcoming 1.3 multijet. What can we expect from Fiat? Every car manufacturer announce price cut post budget but did not come to hear any news from FIAT. Or may be I skipped.
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Old 3rd March 2008, 10:53   #105
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Default IT companies Pay 6.38 to 7.36% effective tax as aganist 20-33% tax of other companies

here are some of the facts from budget 2008 for all those who say that IT has grown on its own with out any subsidy from government. these are extracts from budget 2008.

How much has the public exchequer “lost” because of incentives to corporate taxpayers?

In all, the aggregate revenues forgone because of corporate incentives in 2007-08 are expected to reach a staggering Rs.2.79 lakh crore. Put simply, this waiver amounts to one half of all taxes collected by the government in 2007-08.

In 2007-08, the “losses” are expected to be Rs.58,655 crore in case of corporate tax payes, increasing by 30 per cent over the previous year.

The revenue forgone in the case of non-corporate taxpayers — mainly partnership firms, Association of Persons and Body of Individuals — is expected to be a little over Rs.4,000 crore in 2007-08.

The “losses” due to concessions extended to individual taxpayers in last year’s budget amounted to about Rs.38,000 crore, an increase of 30 per cent over 2006-07.

The “losses” due to excise duty concessions amounted to about Rs. 88,000 crore in 2007-08

Revenues forgone due to changes in customs duties amounted to Rs.1.48 lakh crore.

IT-enabled Services (ITeS) and BPO segments, and the software industry. In particular, they have demanded the extension of incentives that are to end in financial year 2008-09

The ITeS and BPO industries together suffered an effective tax rate of 7.36 per cent, while companies in the business of software development suffered an effective tax rate of 6.38 per cent.

Together, these two segments of industry paid only 2.08 per cent of all taxes paid, but their profits amounted to 6.18 per cent of all profits by companies

An analysis of tax filings by 3.28 lakh corporate entities up to December 31, 2008, constituting about 90 per cent of the expected filings in 2007-08, throws up some interesting results.

The aggregate profit before tax (PBT) of the “sample” companies amounted to Rs.5.56 lakh crore, but their taxable income was Rs.3.42 lakh crore. These companies paid Rs.1.14 lakh crore as corporate tax, implying an effective tax rate of 20.6 per cent, which is significantly lower than the statutory tax rate of 33.66 per cent.

More than half the reporting companies, with profits up to Rs. 1 crore each in 2006-07, suffered an effective tax rate of 25.40 per cent.

Larger companies, with profits of between Rs.50 crore and Rs.500 crore, suffered an effective rate of only a little over 19 per cent.

It turns out that the companies with the lowest profit levels suffered the highest tax rates.

Public sector companies are more diligent taxpayers. The effective tax rate of these companies was 23.35, almost four percentage points above those of private companies.

i hope this clears the air regarding the farm subsidies.
and also the false notions/illusions some guys had that they have grown (IT companies )on their own and also they are the highest tax payers etc etc. small companies earning less than 1 crore pay more tax than infy/wipro in percentage terms.

Sucess of IT in this country is due to three main reasons

1 Nehru - his empahsis on higher education based on english medium and the capital invested by successive govt's at state and cetral level resulted in availability huge manpower or human resource ( compare with China has huge human capital but unable exploit IT services sector because education was in chinese. Now chinese govt investing a lot in english education to compete with India)

2. PV Narasimha rao and Manmohan Singh govt of 1990's- for devaluing the rupee and making indian services esp IT sector cheaper compared to peer countries.

3. Tax holidays extended by various states and central govt in the last 20 years resulting in huge profits for these companies and hence enahancing their ability to offer better compensation of persons working in these sectors

the link
The Hindu : National : Corporate India has no reason to sulk

Last edited by rkg : 3rd March 2008 at 11:02.
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