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Old 24th April 2009, 09:57   #46
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Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
But what you don't understand is that 250bhp isn't that easy to handle. And with a price tag of under 7 lakhs, every tom, dick and harry will have one. And what will they do with it, race it on the streets, lose control and kill themselves.

Watch any off the police videos that come on television and you'll see how dangerous these cars can be (in the wrong hands). I'm more than happy with my 106bhp car. I'll think of 250+ bhp car only when i see a grand racing circuit in town.

Shan2nu
In the US even 250hp is passe. People complain that the Mazda RX-8 sports car, with 232, is "slow," and that even cars with 300 are "just okay." (Not my opinion, but what I read.)

Hard to handle? Not lately, thanks to traction control and stability control. Any idiot can do it...as long as they're not such an idiot that they turn the stability control off.
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Old 24th April 2009, 11:41   #47
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Hard to handle? Not lately, thanks to traction control and stability control. Any idiot can do it...as long as they're not such an idiot that they turn the stability control off.
Thats exactly what a TCS does, it reduces the power at the wheels such that the tyres dont loose traction. So a 250bhp car with TCS is using a lot less power when you slam the accelerator.

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In the US even 250hp is passe. People complain that the Mazda RX-8 sports car, with 232, is "slow," and that even cars with 300 are "just okay." (Not my opinion, but what I read.)
Thats mainly due to the "power to weight ratio" and not just the power. Sit in an Arial Atom and try saying 300bhp is "okay" power. You'l prob go from 0-100mph and back to 0 before you can complete your sentence.



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Old 24th April 2009, 12:13   #48
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Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
Thats mainly due to the "power to weight ratio" and not just the power. Sit in an Arial Atom and try saying 300bhp is "okay" power. You'l prob go from 0-100mph and back to 0 before you can complete your sentence.

Shan2nu

Bloody hell!! I feel like moving to UK after seeing that

Back to topic - very right about the power to weight ratio thing. Top Gear had a show in which Shelby Ford Mustang 500 (which had 447bhp) did their lap in 1:30 which is considered slowww. Ariel Atom did the same lap in about 1:20. That's 10 secs faster in 1 lap of 2.7miles!!
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Old 24th April 2009, 12:44   #49
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Deserted stretches, just a small burst to 100 or even 120 yes, possible, I have done it several times myself.

But doing it on a regular basis, doing 85 where the limit is 70 and not getting caught is sheer luck. I clearly remember my friend and I were going from NY to OH and a guy in a pimped Honda overtook us and remained in the outermost lane, a few miles down he was pulled over for doing just +5mph over the speed limit.

Maybe in the west coast, the rules might be relaxed, but the places where I've stayed on the east coast, I guess the situations always been tight. But I agree with you, the places which are deserted one can easily overspeed, not a big deal.

Shrey

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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
^^Some places in Texas and Utah do have 80mph speed limits outside the city. Inside the city it'll be 60-65. Everyone will do 90mph if the speedlimit is 80mph.

Infact I've seen quite a few cars do 85+ in Washington state where the speed limit is 70. Once in a while on deserted stretches of I-5, I've even gone past 100. You just need to know where the cops are and where they aren't. As simple as that .
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Old 24th April 2009, 13:14   #50
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Man, I feel like laughing!!! Shan! let it go!! someone here seems to have just been visiting the US on a TOURIST visa and maybe the TOUR GUIDE mentioned the stuff to him... Freak!!

LOL!!! I can't stop laughing man!! Dunno which Highway is "the man" talking bout!! Michigan has a limit of 70mph and the the highest is I think in a very few places like Arizona and some others is 75!! Florida cannot be more than 75 and inside the city limits, forget it!!

Everyone hitting 90mph!! lol!! I can't take it anymore man, my stomach's aching!

Shrey
I don't get what's so funny about that statement. The speed limit here in Arizona is 75 mph on the highway. The limit on the 101 within Phoenix is 65 mph and tons of people go at 80. On the interstate most people drive around 80-90 mph. You don't have to be condescending to someone to make a point.
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Old 24th April 2009, 13:29   #51
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there is another thread with a nano getting a 300bhp engine cost being 4 lakhs
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Old 24th April 2009, 13:41   #52
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Heres what 300bhp can do to American Muscle.



So lets not go "gaga" over bhp figures alone....

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 24th April 2009 at 13:43.
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Old 24th April 2009, 13:44   #53
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Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
Which Camaro in the US comes for an equivalent of 7 lakh Indian rupees and what is the 1/4 mile time it manages.

Shan2nu
shan2nu my forgetful friend like some one already pointed out the thread is 4 years old,and very first post quotes vulcen saying his camaro did at that time,in $ to Rs conversion and that was the very reason you have suggested the idea of a zen worth 4lakh and puttin 3 lakh worth of mods onto it,now UNLESS you own such a masterpiece ,i am pretty sure whatever the heck this or anyother zen does a quarter mile in,camaro can beat the living daylights out of it,i have no idea how you picture a camaro -its a muscle car not a tractor and a zen is a zen which in my country is a small hatchback with a tiny engine with tiny wheels and big engine=loads of torque hence STRAIGHTS are a muscle cars strength so good luck with that.i think next time at the speed run you should tell the organisers this and ask them to let you participate against the camaros if any or other 250 something odd HP cars .
power to weight does matter so which is why all the hardcore version of supercars,like gallardo SL, F 430 Scud are made as light as possible ,but if you look closely an ariel atom has no roof,or a passenger seat or doors for that matter,practical car much?
its like a road legal track car.
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Originally Posted by mkaresh View Post
In the US even 250hp is passe. People complain that the Mazda RX-8 sports car, with 232, is "slow," and that even cars with 300 are "just okay." (Not my opinion, but what I read.)

Hard to handle? Not lately, thanks to traction control and stability control. Any idiot can do it...as long as they're not such an idiot that they turn the stability control off.
yeah the way a car puts down the power also makes a huge amount of difference ,so it depends,on top gear they compared the M6 and AM vantage against the carrera in the wet both cars had a drastic power advantage over the carrera but they were anhilated when they compared the times .so its down to the chassis balance and suspension set up etc.

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Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
Thats exactly what a TCS does, it reduces the power at the wheels such that the tyres dont loose traction. So a 250bhp car with TCS is using a lot less power when you slam the accelerator.



Thats mainly due to the "power to weight ratio" and not just the power. Sit in an Arial Atom and try saying 300bhp is "okay" power. You'l prob go from 0-100mph and back to 0 before you can complete your sentence.



Shan2nu
if you slam the accelerator down in most cars there is wheel spin,too much wheel spin in turn hinders traction and hence acceleration.the TCS basically distributes and limits the power to its optimum level so that the car has the best possible grip (which is why its called a driver aid),which is why you have launch control(which helps the cars in getting the best possible traction off the line) and TCS in lambos ,ferraris and the GTR now ,so youre saying all these cars cant handle the amount of power they have because they cant put all of it down from stand still and need TCS? you slam the accelerator in an atom for that matter if you think there will be no wheel spin youre dreaming,its a light car ,so its all the more likely to wheel spin without the aerodynamic grip off the line.
BTW the new version the 500 Hp version of the atom comes with TCS and launch control as standard .
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Old 24th April 2009, 18:10   #54
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I agree with deuce-deuce. 80 -90 is quite common on US interstates - even though the speed limit is 65-70. The trick is that you need to be slower than the car in front of you - that way its mostly the car in front which is accosted by cops.
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Old 24th April 2009, 19:36   #55
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Originally Posted by ssjr0498 View Post
Deserted stretches, just a small burst to 100 or even 120 yes, possible, I have done it several times myself.

But doing it on a regular basis, doing 85 where the limit is 70 and not getting caught is sheer luck. I clearly remember my friend and I were going from NY to OH and a guy in a pimped Honda overtook us and remained in the outermost lane, a few miles down he was pulled over for doing just +5mph over the speed limit.

Maybe in the west coast, the rules might be relaxed, but the places where I've stayed on the east coast, I guess the situations always been tight. But I agree with you, the places which are deserted one can easily overspeed, not a big deal.

Shrey
Well flashy cars are attention grabbers and the first ones to get caught. I remember me doing ~65'ish and a carrera GT passed me on the seattle 405 highway and all of us in the car were like wow. A couple of miles down the road, we found the car had been booked for speeding .
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Old 24th April 2009, 19:44   #56
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i feel we have good range of cars but price correction should happen.
India needs cars with VFM and more fuel efficient cars and not for big horses.

We already have good range of decent cars for Indian roads, even though we get 200 or 300 bhp there are no enough road conditions to drive those machines, though i agree the GQ roads have changed the way we drive but the confidence level is less while driving on these roads due to people crossing without any fear as well as animals crossing the roads giving nighmare for car drivers.

if GQ was built without passing through any towns then we would have got good driving pleasure even now govt may think of putting fencing across the GQ thus securing the highway against people and animals

-MUKE
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Old 24th April 2009, 20:02   #57
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Originally Posted by ssjr0498 View Post
Man, I feel like laughing!!! Shan! let it go!! someone here seems to have just been visiting the US on a TOURIST visa and maybe the TOUR GUIDE mentioned the stuff to him... Freak!!

LOL!!! I can't stop laughing man!! Dunno which Highway is "the man" talking bout!! Michigan has a limit of 70mph and the the highest is I think in a very few places like Arizona and some others is 75!! Florida cannot be more than 75 and inside the city limits, forget it!!

Everyone hitting 90mph!! lol!! I can't take it anymore man, my stomach's aching!

Shrey
Mr. NON-TOURIST VISA, looks like someone isn't getting their facts straight and is just being cocky.

I've seen quite a few places in the midwest (the Dakotas, Montana) where not only is the speed limit 80 mph, there is no traffic or cops on the Interstates for hundreds of miles and doing 90 mph is very "normal" if you're not driving a semi trailer. In fact on Ontario highways, even going 20 kph over the limit will not get you arrested if you're staying within the traffic flow.

Also as some other people in this thread have mentioned, tricked out Zens and Balenos and Ariel Atoms might be faster in theory on racetracks and dragstrips, but when it comes to doing high speeds consistently for extended periods of time in "real" conditions, things are a lot different.

Try touching 90 mph on I-94 in your 800 kg tricked out Zen or Ariel Atom and you'll be blown apart by the highway crosswinds. Cars like the Camaro, G8, CTS-V or even the M3, M5 etc. are designed to be faster while cruising and also on the racetrack. That's why they cost so much more and require a different level of engineering than your neighbourhood tuner down the road. And NOS isn't the answer to everything as some people here seem to think.

And I'm not even touching the subject of torque on those puny engines.

Last edited by sujaylahiri : 24th April 2009 at 20:07.
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Old 24th April 2009, 20:25   #58
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I think current Indian cars are good enough for the existing road conditions. Unless you are commuting on highways every day, there is really no need of all that power. And a Zen in India is quite a pleasure to drive. There is no point thinking how it would run on an Interstate in the US. There is a reason why the highway speed limit is 80kmph in India and not 80mph.
Also enjoying driving is not just about speed. Driving continuously at 90mph on a strainght road quickly gets boring. I have a 'fast' car and yet the most fun I have had with my car is on winding backroads where you really need to push yourself and the car to get the best out of it.
Just my two cents.
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Old 24th April 2009, 22:56   #59
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Hi,

please do not get mad at me! I am a hardcore "desh bhakt" and I really really got pissed off by the way the gentlemen spoke about India and Indians. Generally people who I have come across singing ga ga abt the US are more often than not just visitors who have just been to the states!

Again, If you read the post that was made by the gentlemen, it mentions of driving regularly at 90MPH!!!! lets see you doing that in a place like FL with the help of radar jammers and never getting caught. I didnt know that people stay on the highway and the moment they step out they do 90+ for hours before they get to see habitation.

Please let me know of an Interstate where I can go and drive on whatever speed I want for hundred's of miles before I see cops. I really want to visit that place this time when I goto the states!

There is no mention of doing that speed at I-95's and I-85's

I have ALSO said very clearly that doing that kind of speed when the cops are not around ain't a big deal, I have done that myself. But those are just small and short bursts.

Incase, you missed that line, I have also mentioned about places where the speed limit is 80.

Really do not understand what ticked you off!!

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Originally Posted by sujaylahiri View Post
I've seen quite a few places in the midwest (the Dakotas, Montana) where not only is the speed limit 80 mph, there is no traffic or cops on the Interstates for hundreds of miles and doing 90 mph is very "normal" if you're not driving a semi trailer. In fact on Ontario highways, even going 20 kph over the limit will not get you arrested if you're staying within the traffic flow.

Haven't you seen pimped honda civics doing really high speeds on the Interstates for long, I most definitely have and I am sure almost all of them weigh in below or around the 1 ton mark!!

I'm sure, you must have also seen it because as you say doing 90+mph is a cakewalk where you stay and I bet there aint a place in the US where you wont find a Honda!

As far as the Ariel Atom goes, that car is designed for a specific purpose and because of its very design, the crosswinds wont create a havoc like the way you have mentioned..

What would you have to say about the bikes in that case? Going by what you have to say they should not be allowed on the Interstates?


Quote:
Also as some other people in this thread have mentioned, tricked out Zens and Balenos and Ariel Atoms might be faster in theory on racetracks and dragstrips, but when it comes to doing high speeds consistently for extended periods of time in "real" conditions, things are a lot different.
Try touching 90 mph on I-94 in your 800 kg tricked out Zen or Ariel Atom and you'll be blown apart by the highway crosswinds. Cars like the Camaro, G8, CTS-V or even the M3, M5 etc. are designed to be faster while cruising and also on the racetrack. That's why they cost so much more and require a different level of engineering than your neighbourhood tuner down the road. And NOS isn't the answer to everything as some people here seem to think.


Oh btw! the 1st gen Ariel atom had 150lb-ft of torque, which is good enough for the car of that weight and also which is much more than some sedan's!!

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And I'm not even touching the subject of torque on those puny engines.

I understand very well that I should not have condescended the way I did in the other post, as this is a open forum and people have the right to say whatever they want, but!! I hate procarstinators!! Period!!

Shrey

Last edited by ssjr0498 : 24th April 2009 at 23:10.
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Old 24th April 2009, 23:15   #60
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shan2nu my forgetful friend like some one already pointed out the thread is 4 years old,and very first post quotes vulcen saying his camaro did at that time,in $ to Rs conversion and that was the very reason you have suggested the idea of a zen worth 4lakh and puttin 3 lakh worth of mods onto it,now UNLESS you own such a masterpiece ,i am pretty sure whatever the heck this or anyother zen does a quarter mile in,camaro can beat the living daylights out of it,i have no idea how you picture a camaro -its a muscle car not a tractor and a zen is a zen which in my country is a small hatchback with a tiny engine with tiny wheels and big engine=loads of torque hence STRAIGHTS are a muscle cars strength so good luck with that.i think next time at the speed run you should tell the organisers this and ask them to let you participate against the camaros if any or other 250 something odd HP cars .
power to weight does matter so which is why all the hardcore version of supercars,like gallardo SL, F 430 Scud are made as light as possible ,but if you look closely an ariel atom has no roof,or a passenger seat or doors for that matter,practical car much?
its like a road legal track car.
Dude, a Zen has already done a 13.13 sec 1/4 mile during torque night. This puny car was only beaten by 3 cars in the whole event, out of which the 2nd fastest time was achieved by another FWD OHC. The other 2 being the R35 and the Lancer Evo (both AWD).

Even the mighty SL 55 AMG driven by Mihir Dharkar managed a time of 13.15secs.

Its not just about Zen vs Camaro here, its about knowing what it takes to be quick. Performance of a car is not dependant on bhp figures alone, it takes lot more than that.

So blindly saying that "we need 250bhp for under 7 lakhs doesn't make sense at all".

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 24th April 2009 at 23:18.
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