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Old 25th April 2009, 00:16   #61
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if you slam the accelerator down in most cars there is wheel spin,too much wheel spin in turn hinders traction and hence acceleration.the TCS basically distributes and limits the power to its optimum level so that the car has the best possible grip (which is why its called a driver aid),which is why you have launch control(which helps the cars in getting the best possible traction off the line) and TCS in lambos ,ferraris and the GTR now ,so youre saying all these cars cant handle the amount of power they have because they cant put all of it down from stand still and need TCS? you slam the accelerator in an atom for that matter if you think there will be no wheel spin youre dreaming,its a light car ,so its all the more likely to wheel spin without the aerodynamic grip off the line.
Well, if that is the case, then why do you think the R35 with 475bhp, launch control and
AWD takes 3.2 secs to 60 and 11 odd secs to the 1/4 mile when the Atom with no launch control, rwd and just 300bhp does 60 is 2.9 secs and the 1/4 mile in under 11 secs?

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BTW the new version the 500 Hp version of the atom comes with TCS and launch control as standard .
And why do you think Ariel felt it important to make TCS standard on a 500bhp Atom when they never bothered to have it on the 300bhp version?

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Old 25th April 2009, 01:26   #62
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Vulken does have a point. I studied in the states, drove a few cars, accompanied friends who bought a few cars and can connect to what he has to say about how we do get shortchanged on the pricing vis-a-vis value/positioning front (despite duties) rather than on the 200 horses.

Auto companies will continue to bring down older dies till the market matures or till a competitor decides, it's time to stir the hornet's nest and launch my latest version at an aggressive price, so as to set a benchmark for the others to follow. The Pulsar is a good example. This shift will be a slow incremental one and is also affected by factors that are beyond the control of the manufacturer (govt's duty and excise policy, import policies,infrastructure, resistance from domestic companies, etc)

In time it will have to change...we are just 60 years old as a 'developing' nation after we were plundered for our riches..so in time you will also see 200 horses for less than 7 lakhs(inflation not taken into account) !

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Old 25th April 2009, 01:41   #63
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In time it will have to change...we are just 60 years old as a 'developing' nation after we were plundered for our riches..so in time you will also see 200 horses for less than 7 lakhs(inflation not taken into account) !
It will definately happen but not anytime soon.

Off the cars sold here today (4 years after the thread was started), the cheapest 200+bhp cars you can buy i think are the Accord V6 and Superb V6 costing around 25lakhs.

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Old 25th April 2009, 06:22   #64
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Thats exactly what a TCS does, it reduces the power at the wheels such that the tyres dont loose traction. So a 250bhp car with TCS is using a lot less power when you slam the accelerator.

Thats mainly due to the "power to weight ratio" and not just the power. Sit in an Arial Atom and try saying 300bhp is "okay" power. You'l prob go from 0-100mph and back to 0 before you can complete your sentence.



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You're preaching to the choir on the benefits of light weight. I have three kids, so I need something with four doors. But my ideal car is a RWD five-door weighing about 2,800 pounds with, say, 225 horsepower. I currently drive a Mazda Protege5 (Familia is some parts of the world). And a 300hp Lexus GS 400. But prefer the more compact Mazda.

But back to the problem of control--traction control isn't such a big deal on dry roads. Anyone with sense can handle a powerful car in a straight line.

The trick is managing a powerful car in curves. That's where stability control kicks in. It doesn't limit engine power, but selectively applies to the brakes to keep the car steering in the desired direction. Without stability control, it's very easy to spin a powerful RWD car if you don't know what you're doing. Especially if the roads are wet.
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Old 25th April 2009, 07:00   #65
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Again, If you read the post that was made by the gentlemen, it mentions of driving regularly at 90MPH!!!! lets see you doing that in a place like FL with the help of radar jammers and never getting caught. I didnt know that people stay on the highway and the moment they step out they do 90+ for hours before they get to see habitation.

Please let me know of an Interstate where I can go and drive on whatever speed I want for hundred's of miles before I see cops. I really want to visit that place this time when I goto the states!

There is no mention of doing that speed at I-95's and I-85's

I have ALSO said very clearly that doing that kind of speed when the cops are not around ain't a big deal, I have done that myself. But those are just small and short bursts.

Incase, you missed that line, I have also mentioned about places where the speed limit is 80.
I guess you haven't seen the "real" North America then. I've been on vast stretches of highways in the mid-west and also Canada where you do not see a cop for hundreds of miles.

In fact I just reached home from Grande Prairie few hours back and during the whole to and fro journey (about 550 km) I did not see a single cop on the highway (Highway 2 Alberta). And everyone here easily does 15-25 kph over the limit, even the semis!

Once I was driving through Minnesota in the fall and the fastest vehicle on the road was a semi-trailer doing at least 85-90 mph on the left lane.

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Really do not understand what ticked you off!!
Your attitude towards a fellow poster on a public forum.


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Haven't you seen pimped honda civics doing really high speeds on the Interstates for long, I most definitely have and I am sure almost all of them weigh in below or around the 1 ton mark!!
I have both seen and driven them and keeping them steady at such speeds for extended periods of time is almost impossible.

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What would you have to say about the bikes in that case? Going by what you have to say they should not be allowed on the Interstates?
All bikes other than the highway cruisers should be banned on the highways in my opinion.


My whole point of my previous post was that powerful mid size sedans might not be as "agile" as your Ariel Atom or some tricked out rice tuner, but they serve a dual purpose, which is performing well on the racetrack as well as on the way back home from the racetrack.

If you look closely at the performance supercars and hypercars (Corvette, Koenigsegg, Porsche, Audi, Viper etc.), most of them have their curb weights in the range of 3200-3500 lbs, which I believe is the magic number for the aerodynamics to work properly at greater speeds without affecting performance.

Of course there are exceptions as always, and also don't compare them to Formula 1 and GT cars with lighter curb weights as they were not designed to haul you and your buddies with the air conditioning or heat on and in extreme weather conditions.

Last edited by sujaylahiri : 25th April 2009 at 07:05.
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Old 25th April 2009, 11:04   #66
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You're preaching to the choir on the benefits of light weight. I have three kids, so I need something with four doors. But my ideal car is a RWD five-door weighing about 2,800 pounds with, say, 225 horsepower. I currently drive a Mazda Protege5 (Familia is some parts of the world). And a 300hp Lexus GS 400. But prefer the more compact Mazda.

But back to the problem of control--traction control isn't such a big deal on dry roads. Anyone with sense can handle a powerful car in a straight line.

The trick is managing a powerful car in curves. That's where stability control kicks in. It doesn't limit engine power, but selectively applies to the brakes to keep the car steering in the desired direction. Without stability control, it's very easy to spin a powerful RWD car if you don't know what you're doing. Especially if the roads are wet.
The Atom was just an example.

You choose the 225bhp Mazda over the more powerful 300bhp Lexus, which is exactly my point. You dont always need more bhp to get performance out of a car. Sometimes lighter, less powerful cars can be much more fun to drive since they dont have to carry the extra dead weight when you need to accelerate, brake or go around corners.

Instead of 2800lbs and 225bhp, if you were to drive a car with 2200lbs and 180bhp, you'd still be quicker.

I can bet that if you were to test the 270bhp Accord V6 against the 180bhp Accord 2.4 around a track, there wouldn't be much difference at all.

A 110bhp/235nm Verna itself gets scary when you push it around corners. Now imagine a 200bhp/400nm car like that retailing at under 7 lakhs. What sort of suspension, brakes, aerodynamics, build quality, safety features etc would you expect at such a low price?

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If you look closely at the performance supercars and hypercars (Corvette, Koenigsegg, Porsche, Audi, Viper etc.), most of them have their curb weights in the range of 3200-3500 lbs, which I believe is the magic number for the aerodynamics to work properly at greater speeds without affecting performance.
And how many of those cars even come close to the 7 lakh price tag? The point of this thread is not to have 200+bhp cars, that we already do.

But to expect that at under 7 lakhs is just impossible at this point of time.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 25th April 2009 at 11:08.
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Old 25th April 2009, 20:31   #67
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In India, you can get a good meal at Rs25. ( unlimited meals at a decent hotel )

where in the US can you get this ? so no point in just comparing prices of cars here and in the US

please read the theory of relative purchasing power parity
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Old 25th April 2009, 22:45   #68
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Why Cant We Get 250 Horses Under 7 Lakh Inr?

if I remember my division correctly, that works out to 2800 INR per horse.
lemme check with my friendly neighbourhood stableboy. Im sure he would be happy to oblige.
heck, you could setup a fertilizer factory or even a biogas plant with so many horses!!
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Old 26th April 2009, 00:26   #69
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hahahahaha!!! oh !! boy!! have not laughed like this in a while now!!

good one Venkat!!



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Originally Posted by blacmagic View Post
Why Cant We Get 250 Horses Under 7 Lakh Inr?

if I remember my division correctly, that works out to 2800 INR per horse.
lemme check with my friendly neighbourhood stableboy. Im sure he would be happy to oblige.
heck, you could setup a fertilizer factory or even a biogas plant with so many horses!!
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Old 27th April 2009, 21:32   #70
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Originally Posted by blacmagic View Post
Why Cant We Get 250 Horses Under 7 Lakh Inr?

if I remember my division correctly, that works out to 2800 INR per horse.
lemme check with my friendly neighbourhood stableboy. Im sure he would be happy to oblige.
heck, you could setup a fertilizer factory or even a biogas plant with so many horses!!
Hey venkat, first stop your gobar gas plant and talk abt others!!Hows your honda??
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Old 28th April 2009, 00:12   #71
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presently, she is nursing an injury. too much gobar gas you see.
should be back to kill in about a week.
by the way, do I know you?

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Hey venkat, first stop your gobar gas plant and talk abt others!!Hows your honda??
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