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Old 15th March 2008, 17:08   #16
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I guess the govt is trying to bring in an EPA like thing, where the average fuel efficiency of the fleet by a manufacturer has to exceed, a certain amount. This exempts SUVs and trucks

This leads to a big problem for niche companies, who introduce only performance models
, eg BMW. If the average fuel efficiency across the range for a sedan is set to 14kmpl(example), this will cause headaches to such companies.
i think under those norms, the number cars sold is also part of the equation...which is why niche car makers do not have such a big problem since, all though their cars on a per car basis might fall below the stipulated level, in cummulation ( due to low sales) they do not pollute as much ..
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Old 15th March 2008, 17:10   #17
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as such introducing such norms has to be done very carefully and scientifically so that it does not result in any PARTISAN moves favouring any specific car makers...

at the end of the day, the Indian market being largely cost conscious by itself would dictate these specifications and govt intervention may not be required at this stage for cars...

these efforts would be better spent in
1) improving public transport and educating ppl about its benefits
2) improving road and infrastructure - which by itself will reduce fuel costs
3) improving quality of fuel
4) enforcing pollution checking norms more strictly that just being a case of getting a PUC certificate from a roadside MARTUTI OMNI operated unit !!!
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Old 15th March 2008, 22:29   #18
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If this is the case then i think Government will be the most under LOSS as all the cars in the full country will be needed to be changed which are being used by the Government

What do you say TBHPians???????? n't that True
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Old 15th March 2008, 23:49   #19
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If this is the case then i think Government will be the most under LOSS as all the cars in the full country will be needed to be changed which are being used by the Government

What do you say TBHPians???????? n't that True
It is impossible to change the cars. Now they can't control the chain. But they can do a strictness on the norms for the upcoming cars. That's also they can't do it. This topic that had been raised will be buried in the grave for sure soon. They will surely mess up with the fuels. Decreasing the Quality once again. For Sure.
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Old 16th March 2008, 02:13   #20
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Default Fuel Quality?

I really appreciate the effort of our great government, but what about the quailty of fuel?
If the fuel quality was really good then I think many of our problems would be solved. Bad quality of fuel can, as we all know, lead to lower fuel effeciency.

Why dont they check out the quality and quantity of fuel supplied?
Good quality and honest quantity would help us a lot.

Government cannot talk about interior designing without even constructing a building.
I hope that every one gets what my real point is.
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Old 16th March 2008, 07:58   #21
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Guys,

These are norms for the manufacturers and not for independent users. So why are we talking about:

1. Pollution - This is about FE and not pollution.
2. Good Quality fuel - The manufacturer sure has access to this. And this is about meeting FE norms in test conditions.

Talking about pollution, all cars have to meet the Bharat Standards when leaving the plant. After that it is the owners' responsibility to maintain pollution levels below the acceptable range. How many of us actually do it? How many of us brag about bribing people and getting a PUC?

The same will be the case with these norms too. While the vehicle will meet the norms when leaving the manufacturer, we the owners will go for performance mods and compromise on the FE. So, who is to blame?

While we make claims of doing 160 or 200 or even 200+ on our modded cars, what kind of FE do we expect?

I guess the only way to cure this is to have a yearly registration renewal with a road worthiness test conducted by the RTO, of course staffed by uncorruptible people.

I cannot understand where the Government is to blame here.

Lets face it - we are lethargic, hypocritic people with no proactive involvement with the government. While we expect better living standards, we haveno respect for rules. We want butter smooth roads, so we can break the speed limits and risk our own and fellow road users' lives.

Grow up.

Cheers,

Rajan
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Old 16th March 2008, 11:48   #22
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Lets face it - we are lethargic, hypocritic people with no proactive involvement with the government. While we expect better living standards, we haveno respect for rules. We want butter smooth roads, so we can break the speed limits and risk our own and fellow road users' lives.
We don't want bad roads either, so that our car gets a good bashing. Suspensions, most of the time they are killed in the areas where we have bad roads full of pits and holes, our fuel efficiency gets messed up.
now talking of the good roads, we have expressway in noida too, now people from U.P side gets all messed up, delhi side too but mostly U.P side. It is a no limit expressway. Many people don't know how to drive at high speeds, or they don't know the limit of their car's (handling issues) and ends up in an accident. Why? because we have really bad roads where one can't judge these things easily. I had seen a thread in the forum regarding noida expressway. It is all fact about that highway. It is Janta's fault too but govt. have a major role in it.

and also we don't want conjested roads too, where it kills our time and kill our fuel efficiency. Why know many people drive fast? Forget enthusiasts, they are just a bunch of them, what about rest of the people? They are getting late for their offices, getting late for their work, so they have to drive fast. So govt. is responsible for it, for what we are giving tax to the govt when we have such messed up roads,

What about DND Toll bridge connecting delhi and noida? They had recovered all the money, now for what they are asking for the tolls? At 9-10 AM daily morning i can see traffic jams till half of the bridge i.e 2 km jamms daily on the DND flyover. If we have such good roads and management then 2 km jamms shouldnt be there. Such a waste of time and fuel just because of bad road management by the govt.
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Old 17th March 2008, 02:14   #23
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Well some called us bad.
Yes I know very well that at the time of testing the car for fuel effeciency, the cars are tested with proper quantity and quality of fuel.

BUT THEN THE CARS HERE ARE MANUFACTURED FOR WORST FUEL. So when the cars go for testing, they have to very detuned below their "Developed Specifications". You cant plonk a ferrari engine into F-150.

So what really happens is that the engines are designed for developed markets and then for India their tuning is disturbed leading to performance that is not optimum.


Yes we are bad. We dont care about the PUC, etc sort of stuff, but reality is that government is more to blame. If the fuel was proper then the fuel effeciency factor would be solved for many of the cars.

Yes and this will take care of pollution is another matter.
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Old 17th March 2008, 15:01   #24
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If the fuel was proper then the fuel effeciency factor would be solved for many of the cars.
I think the fuel efficiency factor has already been solved by.................the market! IMHO, the govt needn't bother at all. When was the last time you heard of a poorly efficient car (less than 9 kpl) enjoying sales success?

Most popular cars are fuel-efficient as well.
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Old 17th March 2008, 16:52   #25
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and also we don't want conjested roads too, where it kills our time and kill our fuel efficiency. Why know many people drive fast? Forget enthusiasts, they are just a bunch of them, what about rest of the people? They are getting late for their offices, getting late for their work, so they have to drive fast. So govt. is responsible for it, for what we are giving tax to the govt when we have such messed up roads,

What about DND Toll bridge connecting delhi and noida? They had recovered all the money, now for what they are asking for the tolls? At 9-10 AM daily morning i can see traffic jams till half of the bridge i.e 2 km jamms daily on the DND flyover. If we have such good roads and management then 2 km jamms shouldnt be there. Such a waste of time and fuel just because of bad road management by the govt.
1. Responsibilty doesn't stop at paying taxes. It's our job to follow up as to how our money is being used. Very few do that (me not included). What most do is crib and complain and try to get out of paying taxes.

2. According to an article in TOI a few weeks back, it will be another 25 yrs or so before the company that built it recovers all the money (which ofcourse includes profit - you dont expect them to work for no profit do you?). From that I conclude that they are nowhere close to recovering the costs yet.
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Old 17th March 2008, 17:08   #26
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Originally Posted by GOT View Post
I think the fuel efficiency factor has already been solved by.................the market! IMHO, the govt needn't bother at all. When was the last time you heard of a poorly efficient car (less than 9 KP) enjoying sales success?

Most popular cars are fuel-efficient as well.
There are so many to this list...almost all automatic transmission cars give below 9kmpl and have now started selling pretty good numbers too.
My NHC CVT gives 9kmpl which probably is one of the most fuel efficent automatics out there, so the likes of the Honda Accord M/T or any car in higher segments usually suffer from bad FE.
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Old 17th March 2008, 18:18   #27
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1. Responsibilty doesn't stop at paying taxes. It's our job to follow up as to how our money is being used. Very few do that (me not included). What most do is crib and complain and try to get out of paying taxes.

2. According to an article in TOI a few weeks back, it will be another 25 yrs or so before the company that built it recovers all the money (which ofcourse includes profit - you dont expect them to work for no profit do you?). From that I conclude that they are nowhere close to recovering the costs yet.
I think everybody pays road tax.

I never ever heard of this 25 years recovery thing. What do you think how many vehicals cross DND daily? and what would had been initial costing for it? and since how many years they are having toll from that.

Mate I visit DND 5-6 days a week. at 9-10 AM in the morning. You can see hell lot of jam. From Ashram flyover to half of the DND Bridge. 3-4 km of jam. Just imagine how many vehicals cross from there and you wont see much of jam after 11:30 AM. Jam just drains off. They are taking toll Rs 20 per car per side since more than 3-4 years i guess.

What would had been initial costing and maintainance charges for DND Flyover? 100000 Crores? I don't think so mate. They are unrealistic figures of recovering the money in 25 years.
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Old 17th March 2008, 20:45   #28
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IMHO, any govt needs to address what the ordinary citizens are not concerned / don't have enough knowledge about.

The US govt having regulations about fuel consumption makes sense, since the average chap can't care less about what his mpg is.

In India, where every other person is obsessed about the mileage, what is totally ignored is safety features (both car and Heavy vehicles), and implementation of rules regarding helmets & seatbelts etc.

If the govt wants to bring down the import of fuel, they just have to look at our roads, where the duration of most journeys is double what is acceptable.
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