Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 18th March 2008, 11:03   #16
Senior - BHPian
 
finneyp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,618
Thanked: 160 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
How does a company say its serious about a market?
I can say for Fiat India:
1. Alliance with Tata Motors for Sales and Service.
2. Investing crores at the new plant at Rajnandgaon (Pune).
3. Manufacture of MJD engines at Rajnandgaon.
4. Slew of launches in the next two years - G Punto, Linea, Bravo & 500 (the last two will be CBU.)
finneyp is offline  
Old 18th March 2008, 11:04   #17
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,175
Thanked: 128 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
How does a company say its serious about a market?
It does so by introducing new models.
How many new FIATs have come?
1, the MJD.
1.1 and 1.6 are extentions of a five year old powerplant, and that too a step in the wrong direction for the former
Its hard to praise a manufacturer, when this is the level of commitment towards the fastest growing
market in the world(one of the fastest anyways).
Commitment to market is not shown by selling decade old products (of course Maruti also does it), not investing at all, and trying to extract rent out of new products (expected pricing of Bravo, 500, etc). Fiat must invest huge, take risks, be aggressive; and of course top line, sell great and latest products that can beat the existing offerings. Gone are the days when you could hawk old discarded products all the time.

Have you seen Palio sales in Europe. 2664 in Jan-Nov 2007 or 240 per month, about the same as in India. But here it is touted as the flagship. Guess both Indians and Europeans have the same opinion of Fiat and Palio.

As of now, their only fans and customers seem to be on this website. Fiat is doing well in 2007 in terms of sales, but there is no way that the existing outdated Palio (even the diesel one) is going to bring in the volumes.
vasudeva is offline  
Old 18th March 2008, 11:07   #18
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 1,477
Thanked: 158 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
I think FIAT is being bashed unnecessarily due to their initial failures, although they need to improve their servicability and training the TATA technicians to instill more confidence.
i am a great fan of Fiat and i love both Palio & Petra

Would buy the above said cars given the Sales & Service is given in a proper way.

Fiat is not being bashed unnecessarily due to their initial failures but they are not correcting the failures which was committed earlier and again doing the same thing again & again.

Fiat is the best company and i do not understand why the company is not giving enough Focus to the Indian market.... which is a big question mark ????????

Last edited by gowda79 : 18th March 2008 at 11:11.
gowda79 is offline  
Old 18th March 2008, 11:45   #19
Senior - BHPian
 
NetfreakBombay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,385
Thanked: 336 Times
Default

This is how I see FIAT:

First car in out family was a Premier Padmini that came in 1986. This is an amazing car and is used till today by my parents. And that is after buying another car.

For second car, we chose Maruti instead of FIAT in 95.

Main reason for that choice was service offered by Premier Automobiles. Most of the employees at dealers behaved as though they are doing you a favor by servicing the car. And that made us decide to not buy another car from them.

We were amazed by politeness and customer service by Daewoo/Maruti which was in stark contrast to FIAT.


Now in 2008, things might have changed drastically. FIAT might be providing better service, might have better service network.

BUT it will take them quite some time to wash off its image of pathetic service.

And that image will continue to haunt them till that happens.

Last edited by NetfreakBombay : 18th March 2008 at 11:49.
NetfreakBombay is offline  
Old 18th March 2008, 11:48   #20
BHPian
 
kvish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 596
Thanked: 129 Times
Default

Changing public perceptions is quite a tough task, till date no one ever feels let down by the cars (although current palio is now like a fully stretched rubber band) but somehow there is a consensus amongst most people that the KEY area where FIAT is having issues is in A.S.S.

They are spending crores of rupees in building factories etc, I feel FIAT can do good with a 'concorde' model that TATA adopted. Having 10 company operated service centers around major cities at cost of around 10-15cr each should really help the cause. A 100cr service infrastructure investment can pay more dividends than other avenues that FIAT is trying to use.
kvish is online now  
Old 18th March 2008, 11:50   #21
tez
BHPian
 
tez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: pune
Posts: 381
Thanked: 16 Times
Default

well, I have driven FIAT a lot but never owned one. The main hinderance to that was the after sales and the comments FIAT owners give about waiting for a particular part for weeks and months. FIAT knows how to make a good car but their responsibility starts from there and not ends there. They cant have the same callous attitude towards owners of GP and Linea. Wish FIAT takes India more seriously.
tez is offline  
Old 18th March 2008, 11:51   #22
BHPian
 
sanjaymugur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 262
Thanked: 53 Times
Default

it is called sinister pleasure... most of the negative comments have been from fanboys of other brands who have never owned a FIAT & all of them secretly wished they owned a 1.6 ... ROTFLAMO

that said, brazil being a developing country like us ( one of BRICKS) has a far better FIAT loyalty than in INDIA...

look at the sales figure for month of jan/feb 2008 ( source:::ITALIASPEED::)

Fiat sales in 2008 (Jan/Feb)

Palio: 32,964
Mille: 20,510
Siena: 14,329

Punto: 6,680
Idea: 4,686
Palio Weekend: 2,855
Stilo: 1,629
Doblò: 901
Marea: 3
Light commercial vehicles
Strada: 10,430
Fiorino: 2,843
Ducato: 1,035
Doblò Cargo: 248
Uno Van: 81
Total: 99,194

Brazil still has UNO in MILLE avatar & they get best of palio upgrades...

something to do with the crowd here...
atleast, expect 10% of people to show class..

same story with YAMAHA if i may say so..

FIAT, always....
sanjaymugur is offline  
Old 18th March 2008, 11:56   #23
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,175
Thanked: 128 Times
Default

Perhaps the moderators and people who know about the auto business would be aware of this industry truth: winning a lost customer (ie who bought your product but is now buying a competitor) is the hardest thing in the business.
vasudeva is offline  
Old 18th March 2008, 12:02   #24
Ram
Senior - BHPian
 
Ram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Singapore, Mumbai, Nagpur
Posts: 2,165
Thanked: 144 Times
Default

I say this with the following disclaimer:

As a automotive aficionado, I love Fiat cars for their fun character and temperamental personality. My personal experience has convinced me that, under careful tender loving care and attention, they live reasonably long lives. They are great for a Sunday hobby.

That said, here is my perspective.

FIAT in India has been associated with Premier Automobiles Limited (PAL) for donkeys years. PAL has consistently been notorious for:
  • continuously deteriorating quality of construction,
  • delayed and poor quality new car deliveries and
  • extremely shoddy after-sales-service.
Some of that bad reputation rubs off on their principals,
Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino, Società per Azioni (FIAT SpA)

In the USA, I have heard multiple people say that, FIAT aptly stands for "Fix It Again, Tony". Naturally FIATs stopped selling in the North American market since 1982.

Rust and Paint finish
FIAT's lack of rust proofing was legendary! The cars had a cute charisma and handled extremely well, but would rapidly rust under all but the driest of conditions.

Due to the poor quality of the original FIAT paint, it was prone to fade after barely three years in the sun.

In Europe, FIATs were known to start rusting while brand new in the showroom, before delivery.

FIAT purchased steel from Russia in the early 1970s, which was supposedly cheap substandard mixed grade. That steel almost brought the Italian giant to its knees.

The wings(fenders), wheel-wells and trunk hinges would rust through.

Although FIATs were constructed in hordes and hordes, the original quality of construction of FIAT cars, has seen
surviving specimens of most other European brands from the 1950s through the 1980s, far outnumbering FIATs of the same age. Old FIATs are extremely rare. You no longer see any on the road outside Italy, where the lovely Mediterranean weather protects against rust and rot.

So, all in all, FIAT is just a cheap European brand, which never strove to overcome the bad reputation, that consistently dogged it for so many decades.

In Bombay, we had to get our PAL-manufactured Fiats repainted and rubbersealed every two years.

One of the reasons, my 1995 red-white and blue has lasted so long in Mumbai is because, I got Wasan Motors to coat the trunk, bonnet, flooring and underside with fibreglass in epoxy before taking delivery of it new from the showroom.

Mechanical issues
The car would never fail to overheat, going up the Khandala Ghat. A trip to Pune in the Fiat 1100D was always an enjoyable project. There were oodles of overheated Fiats and we made friends with many owners.

My Padmini S1 always carries its own stock of fuses, bulbs, fanbelt, accelerator cable and full complement of spanners.

The whole point of owning a Fiat is to learn to maintain it all on your own.
Ram is offline  
Old 18th March 2008, 12:02   #25
Senior - BHPian
 
srishiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 3,572
Thanked: 814 Times
Default

@sanjaymugur - Why are you judging others ? Why don't you buy 30000 palios if you like them so much ?
Most people who have concerns about Fiat (not haters) have driven Palios. The reverse is something thats not true. We are discussing here and not trying to fix class of a person on whether he likes the Palio or not.
srishiva is offline  
Old 18th March 2008, 12:03   #26
Senior - BHPian
 
narayan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 2,768
Thanked: 1,162 Times
Default

u have thrown up quite a few questions..
starting with the thread title..
1) why would u not buy a FIAT ? - relatively speaking there are fewer reasons now - but nevertheless plenty - problem is average car buyer looks at certain requirements like mileage, hassle free ownership experience, good dealer service ( bcos he is the one who takes the car to the dealer and not some driver ), good resale value..
as of now FIAT might be addressing dealership issue with TATA tie up, mileage issues with smaller engine, but still they are not CLASS LEADERS..
hence with SO FEW cars on road , this doesnt add much to the confidence levels of a TYPICAL CAR BUYER..
but then they will be actually better off marketing , say the 1.6 more aggresively than the 1.1 - hence as many mentioned - FIAT needs to do some selective MARKETING...

2) FIAT cars getting bashed in the forum why ? - thats typical of any discussion, where there is a tendency to go overboard and make sweeping conclusions - to add to this, there are "passionate FIAT owners" who take things personally so that gives more fodder for the bashers - this is nothing to be taken too seriously...IF U LOVE UR CAR - doesnt matter what the world thinks of it..
but IMHO - i have seen more FIAT fans out here than FIAT bashers..

3) what can FIAT do given the present scenario ?

-do a market study and first indentify what is the perception about this company - good things and bad things

- work silently on improving bad things

- loudly market the good things and reinfornce those aspects to a wider audience

- project car models that capitalise on the "good things" the market already thinks of in terms of the brand and focus all resources on such models..

- once you get a critical mass of sales then it becomes easier to push other cars into the market...
narayan is offline  
Old 18th March 2008, 12:08   #27
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,175
Thanked: 128 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ram View Post
In the USA, I have heard multiple people say that, FIAT aptly stands for "Fix It Again, Tony". Naturally FIATs stopped selling in the North American market since 1982.
In US, Fiat did sell the notorious Yugo Tempo. Tales about the Yugo are many and legendary.
vasudeva is offline  
Old 18th March 2008, 12:10   #28
Senior - BHPian
 
amtak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mumbai - The city of Sea Link!!!
Posts: 2,782
Thanked: 342 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjaymugur View Post
same story with YAMAHA if i may say so..

FIAT, always....
Indeed ironical as Yamaha and Fiat have formed a team together!

Anyhow, I am looking forward to owing a fiat soon and i hope that it will serve me just like any other car company would. I have always wanted to buy a Fiat but the state of the company didn't allow me to buy one. Even now, I still aim to buy a second hand Fiat palio in not a new one. That's the confidence I have in the company. The product is reliable, sturdy and tried and tested.

People said it gives less mileage! Bhaiyya agar 100 BHP car loge toh 10 kms hi milega na? and its built like a tank (6 litres/km!)
amtak is offline  
Old 18th March 2008, 12:18   #29
Distinguished - BHPian
 
phamilyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 5,601
Thanked: 3,451 Times
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
How does a company say its serious about a market?
It does so by introducing new models.
How many new FIATs have come?
1, the MJD.
1.1 and 1.6 are extentions of a five year old powerplant, and that too a step in the wrong direction for the former
Its hard to praise a manufacturer, when this is the level of commitment towards the fastest growing
market in the world(one of the fastest anyways).
bhai saab,

toota pyaar judne mein arsa lagta hai, toh inni vaddi company launches bhi time se karegi ha - it takes time for elephants to learn to dance (again)

@rajan: chill man. Its apparent that its mostly unreasonable/historical issues with most people.
phamilyman is offline  
Old 18th March 2008, 12:19   #30
BHPian
 
WhiteKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 828
Thanked: 73 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjaymugur View Post
something to do with the crowd here...
FIAT, always....
Good to hear that you are happy with your car. But why blame the public?? If people who own FIAT are really happy, then such a thread would not have come up.

The question FIAT should ask themselves is "Why would someone ever buy a FIAT?" Once they figure out the answer (everyone else knows), play to their strength and they could survive in India.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyBoy View Post
After following this forum for the past 6 months, I cannot help but observe a demonstrated hatred for FIAT. While all FIAT users seem to be very happy with their cars.
I'm sorry, but you still have not figured why? For me it is simple. FIAT has a great tradition of over 100 yrs. I love their cars. Some of the most passionate car lovers I have seen (not only in India) are FIAT lovers. Still FIAT fails to deliver. Now what do we do
WhiteKnight is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why the Germans NEED NOT and WILL NOT give you Service VeyronSuperSprt The Indian Car Scene 96 20th November 2013 10:07
Why would somebody buy a Petrol Verna? abhipuru16 Sedans 33 13th June 2010 12:15
What would you do if a vehicle hits you/you hit a vehicle! rajinibm Street Experiences 30 3rd June 2010 12:53
if you were to buy, which one would you pick _Crazi4Speed_ The International Automotive Scene 4 3rd March 2004 06:41


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 17:31.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks