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Old 20th March 2008, 15:08   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post

Nothing to do with engineering here, these are marketing decisions.

That does make some sense, but if cost is a factor, why not fit a smaller engine in the first place?
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Old 20th March 2008, 15:10   #17
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Let us do a comparison on the same make with the same engine size here

Take Evo-X
2 L, 4 Cyl, 290 bhp at 6500 rpm, FE = 19.9 lt=iter/100 km which is around 5 kmpl. (urban mode) This engine is turbo charged with intercooler.
source; Mitsubishi-Motors/Evolution X - Specifications

Now, take our Cedia
2 L, 4 cyl, 115 bhp at 5250 rpm, but FE is around 10 kmpl, (City mode)
source (except FE):Mitsubishi Motors India

For the same engine size, same number of cylinders and same displacement there is a differfence of a whopping 175 bhp difference between Evo X and Cedia.

It takes more fuel/stroke to get that extra power, at the cost of Fuel efficiency.

All those German cars with HIGH bhps will give around 6 kmpl while, Indian counter parts give almost double that figures...
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Old 20th March 2008, 15:43   #18
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Its also about the brand. German brands can put powerful engines with less FE in good cars. People buy these since they want to own the brand even if they are costly.
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Old 20th March 2008, 15:53   #19
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Originally Posted by khanak View Post
You dont buy a Audi Q7, BMW X5/525d, merc E280cdi/S320cdi, VW Touareg 3.0 just for the engine.
That is correct. Engine is just one (but huge) part of more than 20000 parts that make up a car. Put a stool on a German engine and if it moves, it may be the best means of locomotion. But a German engine in a German car=?
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Old 20th March 2008, 15:56   #20
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Its not just BHP ,a lot of other factors account for the success of a model.I dont think its just because of bhp that the German marques have succeeded.They are good examples of quality and refinement.So they might not be that cost conscious as their interests are different.
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Old 20th March 2008, 16:15   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram_hyundai View Post
Its not just BHP ,a lot of other factors account for the success of a model.I dont think its just because of bhp that the German marques have succeeded.They are good examples of quality and refinement.So they might not be that cost conscious as their interests are different.
...and the image factor.
BMW will never make a 1-lakh car even if they can. Porsche will never put an engine that is south side of 100 bhp.

Essentially it is diktat of the marketing guys, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread.
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Old 20th March 2008, 16:46   #22
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Unhappy Units of comparison not correct

its really sad, bad and crude way of comparing ...

thinking of it ..this forum being so old and so many experienced people discussing ..this must not be the way to talk ...

my point : When ever there is a comparison of two engines of same type (diesel or petrol not Diesel & petrol) one must NOT compare BHP of each engines ... doesnt make sense ... you must always compare "Specific Power Output" of the engine ... compare power per cylinder per cc of the engine... and immaterial of the size of the engine you can ALL compare them on one COMMON scale ....

and while comparing two vehicles.. using Power to Weight ratio will give a common scale for comparison ...

the differences in the Specific Output can easily be attributed to several reasons - intake difference, EGR difference, turbo difference, cooler difference, blah blah ... but can not be atributed to the size of the engine ...!!!
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Old 20th March 2008, 17:55   #23
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In my mind, its really about the metallurgy and the tolerance. Big engines don't mean big outputs/refinements.

The best example to my mind is a P220 versus the fairly old ZMA enzin.
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Old 20th March 2008, 20:03   #24
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We wouldn't have had this thread if we had Lexus and Infinity selling their wares in India.
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Old 20th March 2008, 20:39   #25
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here is an old joke:
lexus motto is "the passionate pursuit of perfection"
and mercedes makes perfection.

of course, things are changing.
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Old 20th March 2008, 21:00   #26
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if torque / displacement is what we're talking about

List of automotive superlatives - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
seems to be enlightening.

there is only one BMW in that list :P
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Old 20th March 2008, 21:06   #27
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We are deviating from the original context.

We are talking about German engineering.

It does not as per me mean increase in BHP.

Germans know how to Balance the complete configuration of an engine they are producing and its performance over a period of time.

German Technology=Configuration of Engine / Performance over a period of Time


What we are achieving is
Technology=Different engine configuration/ limited to each models of car produced
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Old 20th March 2008, 21:10   #28
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Quote:
It would be wrong to say Mitsubishi does not have the technology to make an engine with 200+ bhp with 3L.
The Evo FQ 400 had 400bhp from 2ltrs (200bhp/ltr). Moreover, the old S2000 had one of the highest bhp/ltr figs (120bhp/ltr) for a production NA engine.

So technology isn't an issue.

Shan2nu
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Old 20th March 2008, 21:24   #29
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OT: Its not only in automobile field. Most of the mechanical machineries available in the current market, Germans have a superior technology than their counterparts.
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Old 20th March 2008, 23:22   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khanak View Post
You dont buy a Audi Q7, BMW X5/525d, merc E280cdi/S320cdi, VW Touareg 3.0 just for the engine.
I agree, there many more things involved while picking a German automobile over others.

1) They have a history of better quality automobiles
2) The name, the same situation when brand name drugs are more expensive than generic drugs.
3) The level of craftmanship/comfort is unmatched by most other manufacturers.
4) Its not only about the engine, several factors like handling, safety, performance and such must also be accounted for.

All in all, if price was not an issue I would pick a german automobile over American/Japanese anyday, except when it comes to the new GTR Vs The new M3.
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