Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 25th March 2008, 13:16   #31
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: indore
Posts: 22
Thanked: 0 Times
Default article on rediff

4 lessons to learn from Tata's Nano

there is a good article on nano today
anurag11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2008, 14:53   #32
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NA
Posts: 1,219
Thanked: 21 Times
Default

Quote:
When i said Bosch is doing the smallest CRDI for NANO, it does not mean bosch designed it completely. Bosch MD said in a interview after NANO launch that TATA's have demonstrated to them that it can be done and they jumped as they do not want to leave it competitors.
Once again its a Bosch designed unit.

Quote:
Can Maruti/Hyundai/GM/ others say publicly that their small cars have passed frontal and side impact crash tests?
I am sure they can as to sell cars in Europe as Hyundai and GM do they have to pass the Euro NCAP test. Thats why the poor Chinese had to sell their vehicles as agriculture vehicles (avoid the need for NCAP).

Quote:
says it is indeed innovation and why it is so-- i hope this clears the air and shows who is jingoistic
Have you read the article ? Rattan talks about : "A bunch of entrepreneurs could establish an assembly operation ". What a farcical approach to production and potential recipe for disaster. Can you imagine the variation in output quality ? I can see it now, a customer walks into a dealer in Goa and wants a NANO from Indore as they have a better quality finish than the ones made in Pune. TATA cannot get the quality right in their own plants let alone overseeeing many outsourced assembly plants.

You still have not convinced me on any inovation.

Last edited by bigman : 25th March 2008 at 14:55.
bigman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2008, 14:57   #33
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NA
Posts: 1,219
Thanked: 21 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
I hope they dont decide to power the Nano Flintstones style!

AFAIK, TATA is one of the main players in the steel industry. Then why do they have to worry too much about contracts on steel?
So why use the rise of steel prices as an excuse for not having a 1 lakh OTR NANO ?

Also they are far behind Mittal, Nippon, and POSCO when it comes to steel production.
bigman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2008, 18:15   #34
srh
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 339
Thanked: 139 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigman View Post
You still have not convinced me on any inovation.
Don't need to do that. The market will tell you which way this goes.

Anyways, all the great global manufacturers have shown great innovation in their 80-100 years of existence. That too after selling 3-10 million cars a year. They could not even change the basic structure of the automobile. It still predominantly continues to be an IC engine, conventional gear trains and mostly metal bodies. Neither is the performance exponentially better than previous models. Compare this with the semiconductor industry and you can make out how the industry has failed as a whole.
srh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2008, 21:00   #35
rkg
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: bangalore
Posts: 1,041
Thanked: 543 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigman View Post
Once again its a Bosch designed unit.

I am sure they can as to sell cars in Europe as Hyundai and GM do they have to pass the Euro NCAP test. Thats why the poor Chinese had to sell their vehicles as agriculture vehicles (avoid the need for NCAP).

Have you read the article ?

You still have not convinced me on any inovation.
Then why not GM/Hyundai say that the cars soldby them in India have passed the frontal crash test? these manufacturers have different standards for india and europe. what is sold in India has not been crash tested ( this is what i think, correct me if wrong with facts not blanket statements)

Read the interview of Bosch MD. he said we have seen it and hence joined in. so you think bosch have seen a mirage and designed with out any inputs from TATA?

have you seen NANO from being not allowed for sale in Europe? on what basis you are stating that it will not be allowed to be sold in Europe? any proof?

How do you know that cars assembled at different dealers will be of different qualities even before it has come in to market?

read the article by Deloitte & Touche USA LLP carefully. If your think that assembling locally will lead to poor quality, tell that to Cummins which is following same model now in several countries for Gen sets. their gen set quality has not gone down, on the contrary their sales increased.

Facts are Facts whether some one is convinced or not
bye
rkg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2008, 21:12   #36
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NA
Posts: 1,219
Thanked: 21 Times
Default

Quote:
Then why not GM/Hyundai say that the cars soldby them in India have passed the frontal crash test? these manufacturers have different standards for india and europe. what is sold in India has not been crash tested ( this is what i think, correct me if wrong with facts not blanket statements)
Take that up with Hyundai and GM. They are crash tested in Europe and that is a fact.

Quote:
Read the interview of Bosch MD. he said we have seen it and hence joined in. so you think bosch have seen a mirage and designed with out any inputs from TATA?
Please stop bleating the same thing again and again. TATA game them a brief and BOSCH come up with the system.

Quote:
have you seen NANO from being not allowed for sale in Europe? on what basis you are stating that it will not be allowed to be sold in Europe? any proof?
What are you on about ? With all the truculent posts are you getting a bit confused ?

Quote:
How do you know that cars assembled at different dealers will be of different qualities even before it has come in to market?
You can bet your last rupee that there will be differences. TATA cannot get panel fit etc right in their own factories. You think these local 3rd party assembly lines will be concerned about getting panel fit etc 100% right ? Outsourcing is not always for the best, look at UK banks, Amazon, Dell etc who are all running away from the Indian call centres.

Quote:
read the article by Deloitte & Touche USA LLP carefully. If your think that assembling locally will lead to poor quality, tell that to Cummins which is following same model now in several countries for Gen sets. their gen set quality has not gone down, on the contrary their sales increased.
I know plenty of people who work for Deloitte & Touche, PWC etc and take everything they write with a pinch of salt. Most these consultants talk out their behind and are out of touch with the real world.

Quote:
Facts are Facts whether some one is convinced or not
bye
So when you going to post the facts ? Still waiting for you to supply facts. Nothing you have written so far amounts to proof of innovation. More the usual jingo type attitude to defend a home company and pretending they are bigger and better than what they really are.
bigman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2008, 22:16   #37
rkg
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: bangalore
Posts: 1,041
Thanked: 543 Times
Default

I have asked one question

Whether santro/zen/spark etc sold in India are crash tested?

your answer is they are crash tested in Europe( does that mean those sold in India crash tested? if so why not publicly say that?)

Now judge for yourself what is fact.
rkg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2008, 22:19   #38
BHPian
 
agbenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: TN38
Posts: 956
Thanked: 95 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkg View Post
I have asked one question

Whether santro/zen/spark etc sold in India are crash tested?

your answer is they are crash tested in Europe( does that mean those sold in India crash tested? if so why not publicly say that?)

Now judge for yourself what is fact.
In India, I hope still Crash tests are not enforced, Am I right? - why? People never crash? :-) Or greatest drivers?
agbenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2008, 22:42   #39
Team-BHP Support
 
theMAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 7,033
Thanked: 1,470 Times
Default

All this goes to show the difference just a single thought leader can effect, on the lives of his countrymen. I'm now a big fan of Ratan Tata.
theMAG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2008, 23:15   #40
Senior - BHPian
 
esteem_lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Madras/Py
Posts: 7,554
Thanked: 445 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by agbenny View Post
In India, I hope still Crash tests are not enforced, Am I right? - why? People never crash? :-) Or greatest drivers?

yeah, we are great drivers, so no need for crash tests here. We head straight for each other on the highways & still manage to veer away at the last moment. we hardly crash & even if we do, we can afford the loss.
esteem_lover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2008, 23:53   #41
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NA
Posts: 1,219
Thanked: 21 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkg View Post
I have asked one question

Whether santro/zen/spark etc sold in India are crash tested?

your answer is they are crash tested in Europe( does that mean those sold in India crash tested? if so why not publicly say that?)

Now judge for yourself what is fact.
If there is no national requirement to crash test in India then why would anyone bother ?

Mr Tata had to crash test the NANO as people would have said a 1.50 lakh car is unsafe. Its all a marketing gimmick. If Mr Tata was so concerned about safety he would be fitting airbags left right and centre, intelligeng speed adaptation, dynamic steering, pre crash gizmos and pedestrian friendly features.

Now for the umpteenth time please point me to the innovation you keep going on about instead of side tracking everything. A crash test is hardly innovative or a pioneering move.

Last edited by bigman : 25th March 2008 at 23:59.
bigman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2008, 07:09   #42
BHPian
 
DocG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Mumbai - Singapore - Cali - Sydney - S.Korea
Posts: 870
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigman View Post
If there is no national requirement to crash test in India then why would anyone bother ? Mr Tata had to crash test the NANO as people would have said a 1.50 lakh car is unsafe.
Because it's a responsible thing to do...TATAs did it, much, much before any plans for selling this car abroad popped up. Yeah without crash tests they would've said it's unsafe! but hey guess what...it is SAFE!!!

Quote:
Its all a marketing gimmick. If Mr Tata was so concerned about safety he would be fitting airbags left right and centre, intelligeng speed adaptation, dynamic steering, pre crash gizmos and pedestrian friendly features.
Dude if you want 8 airbags, intelligent cruise control, crash anticipation systems, please go out and get yourself a S500, 760, A8, or well a Volvo!!! but bear in mind that we're talking about a Rs 1.5 lakh car as you put it...that is the cost of a simple front driver and passenger airbag system, leave alone curtains, rear seat, centre airbags...the electronics, they aren't even there on cars in the 40-60 lakh range why are you trying to bring up such stupid arguments?!?

Quote:
Now for the umpteenth time please point me to the innovation you keep going on about instead of side tracking everything. A crash test is hardly innovative or a pioneering move.
No a crash test is not a pioneering move, but to transport the general indian public in relative safety and comfort IS!
DocG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2008, 11:18   #43
rkg
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: bangalore
Posts: 1,041
Thanked: 543 Times
Default

Note: here iam referring to ex show room prices only

When a 3.5 lakh car can not afford to provide crash test passed vehicle for that price, ability to provide one lakh car, crash tested requires lots of thought and innovation or whatever you say.

if it is not an innovation or if it is as simple and easy as you say

" why not maruti/hyundai not providing such a simple thing and taking cover under rules that it is not mandatory in India?"

the arguments put forward by some people here shows inability to come to terms that their exclusive ride on national resources ( enjoying the roads with out much competition ) is coming to an end

here i would like to mention what Suzuki chairman said just before NANO launch
" did it have air bags, traction control, will it meet euro norms etc etc.

Did the cars he is selling in india meet these standards mentioned by him?

When he as a chairman of Car company with more than 25 years experience in the filed can not and could not provide these features in his cars priced 4 times the NANO, how is he expecting them in NANO.

iam seeing similar arguments are where people say NANO should be One lakh on road where other cars can be compared on ex show room price
rkg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2008, 18:43   #44
srh
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 339
Thanked: 139 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigman View Post
Now for the umpteenth time please point me to the innovation you keep going on about instead of side tracking everything. A crash test is hardly innovative or a pioneering move.
A crash test for the car of its price is indeed a pioneering move.

And innovation is not only about patents and technology incorporated into a product. Innovation is also about business models, R&D processes, manufacturing processes etc. How much of these are incorporated into the designing and productionizing the Nano will be known only to an insider. But from the outside, it does seem that it has been a momentous effort. They are the thought leaders at this point in time. And this isn't really a small achievement.
srh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2008, 23:29   #45
naj
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Mt Zion IL
Posts: 132
Thanked: 23 Times
Default

Good Day to all T-BHPians.

I would like to stress something which I think everybody knows on this forum-The idea behind this one lakh car.
The story goes like this- Hon Mr Ratan Tata saw a family from his car on a two wheeler.Father, 2 children ,mother and some bags too.He felt sorry for them and wondered how safe it is for a family to travel like this.He thought if he could help his fellow country men in any way.And the idea of one lakh car was born.
Most industry stalwarts said it was impossible but Mr Tata has proved them wrong and delivered .The car is not for auto crazy ,cash rich Indians ,not for those who spend a couple of lakhs for icing their cars etc ,but for aam-admi ,middle class and offcourse many THB members too will not mind buying this car as a city run about.
Let us give credit to Mr Tata and may god bless him.
Please try to understand- He owns premium jag/Land Rover now ,still what interest can he have for the one lakh car?.In which he is not going to earn substantial.
When he initially spoke of the one lakh car concept ,he said that he wants to give back some thing to his country and this is just one of them.
naj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Nano trip on a Nano budget...in a Tata Nano novice_alto Travelogues 11 28th September 2014 15:19
The Tata Nano Gamble - how many Nano Tatas will have to sell agentsmith2 The Indian Car Scene 41 28th October 2009 13:40
Skoda plans cheaper 1.4L Octavia and High FE version of Fabia mshooli The Indian Car Scene 36 29th August 2008 16:55
Cheaper Scorpio variant launched EDIT: More variants with Cheaper 2.2 .anshuman The Indian Car Scene 42 10th May 2008 21:54
Tara Tiny.. cheaper than even Nano!! rajshenoy The Indian Car Scene 1 22nd February 2008 10:28


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 04:24.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks