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Old 5th July 2012, 22:03   #136
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Default Re: Korean v/s Japanese

Well the discussion is btwn Japs and Koreans, so lets not bring the Italians and Germans in..

And lets not forget the XUV500 is actually a korean design

Last edited by adityasiera : 5th July 2012 at 22:04.
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Old 6th July 2012, 00:14   #137
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Default Re: Korean v/s Japanese

A few years back one would've been apprehensive about Hyundai(only manufacturer relevant to indian scenario) catching up with the Japs, let alone beat them.

But one has to give due credit where it deserves and how. IIRC, i20 was the car which started the 'premium hatch' concept in India. I know technically Jazz or Fabia was the first launch but at that price it didn't have many takers to make a significant impact. Thanks to the Jazz and Fabia's pricing, the i20 appeared VFM and sold in large numbers which gave the other manf's courage to bring in hatches at say 7-8 lakh OTR.

Hyundai not only changed the dynamics of that segment, it showed why its a worthy competitor to the Japs, something which happened with the Fluidic Verna's launch too.
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Old 6th July 2012, 00:45   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004
Japs are good when it comes to space management in the cabin, especially Micra and Jazz. But they feel too flimsy and I am not particulary comfortable in any Jap car.
Please dont compare the humble Hyundais to the Accord and Teana please!
We just bought i20 AT and we did test drive Jazz. Jazz is much better built and put together than i20. Interior quality and fitness are much better as well over i20. And yes, I am not comparing i20 to Accord or Teana but to Jazz. Only reason we went for i20 is AT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004
On the other hand, Japs dont have a good diesel engine. Maruti sources its engines from FIAT and Honda till now does not have a diesel engine.

Whereas, Hyundais make amazing diesel engines. I feel Hyundais are much more stylish too. Compare SX4 to Verna, Brio to i10 and Liva to i20.
Yes, Hyundai makes amazing diesel engines, but so does Toyota. As far as Petrol engines are concerned, our 1.8 L Toyota Corolla gives better milage than Santro. Hyundai's petrol engines are no where closer to Japs.
And please, i20's international competitor would be Yaris and not Liva. Liva is one segment down than i20.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004
I have heard many complain that Hyundais give more features but they are built to a price. I really dont agree to that. The i20 and i10 offers much better quality than the Brio, Liva and even Swift to some extent. Jazz is an exception, but we all know how it was initially priced.
It is proven fact that Hyundai has to give better features and warranty than Toyota and Honda to gain market share. Here in USA, Hyundai gives 100k miles warranty and many more features compared to 60k miles warranty of Toyota and Honda, that too with more features as lower price point. Even though, Toyota Corolla sells more than New Elantra with age old (but supremely reliable) 4 speed AT box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004
Overall I feel Hyundai cars are good on power, comfort, styling, features and price. They are just targeted since they are "korean". I find it amusing when some friends buy a compromised car (for the price) and then show their superiority since they bought a "JAP" car. Cmon, the tag on the grille is not everything, look beyond that...
Agreed. All said and done, Hyundai cars are much better compared to few years ago but still there are some areas left for them to catch up with Japs. The biggest mistake from Hyundai in recent years is that, they launched their luxury cars like Genesis and Equus under same brand rather than coming up with different brand like Lexus. Creating separate brand would have helped Hyundai big time.

Last edited by Nitrous Power : 6th July 2012 at 00:46.
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Old 6th July 2012, 03:08   #139
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Default Re: Korean v/s Japanese

Hi Guys,

Here is my opinion on Hyundai cars after having driven my Dad's Santro Xing extensively in India and a rented Santafe over a 1000 mile road trip here in the US. I think Hyundai as a company has done exceptionally well in the last decade. But, most of the success is mainly due to the features provided at a reasonable price, be it quality of materials, styling, gadgets, engine options etc. I think these were enough to lure the average car buyer. However, I still feel they lack the engineering finesse that the Japanese cars have and can only be achieved with experience.

We exchanged our first gen Wagon R with Santro Xing and although the engine felt lot smoother in the Santro and it had better features, the car lacked the feel. It was like driving a toy car - the Wagon R felt more connected to the road. This was in 2008.

Cutting forward to 2012, my uncle and me were planning on a road trip and were thinking of taking my 99 Toyota solara, but at the last moment decided against it, as we thought the car might have some minor issues in the radiator. We rented a Santafe, (was actually an upgrade from a sonata) and it turned out to be the worst decision ever. The gear box was horrible and steering feel was worse than the Santro. It was a real pain, as the car would keep jumping gears for even the minutest gradient in the road or input to the A pedal. Although I ve read of the boat like feel of the Hyundais in Tbhp, I got to experience it first hand and I realized why people complain so much about it. My 99 Toyota has a better gear box and steering feedback than the 11' Hyundais. I highly doubt if it would have been any different, if we had went with the 11' sonata.
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Old 6th July 2012, 10:22   #140
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Default Re: Korean v/s Japanese

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourav21 View Post
I would any day put my money eyes closed in a Toyota diesel mill than a Hyundai one as far as reliability and long life is concerned.
Compare the Liva's diesel engine to the Mutijet or the CRDi from the i20.

The D-4D is unrefined, not the best in fuel efficiency and not great in performance too. When we talk about long life, have we heard about multijets or CRDis breaking down after 1.5 Lac kms? No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adityasiera View Post
And lets not forget the XUV500 is actually a korean design
WHAT ???
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Old 6th July 2012, 10:40   #141
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Default Re: Korean v/s Japanese

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
Compare the Liva's diesel engine to the Mutijet or the CRDi from the i20.

The D-4D is unrefined, not the best in fuel efficiency and not great in performance too. When we talk about long life, have we heard about multijets or CRDis breaking down after 1.5 Lac kms? No.



WHAT ???
If my research is correct, then the XUV 500 is based on the Ssangyong C200 Crossover.
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Old 6th July 2012, 11:08   #142
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Default Re: Korean v/s Japanese

^^^True. Features don't make a car. What good is all the cool features in the i20 that you paid through your nose for, if at high speeds, the steering becomes unmanouverable, like some people have reported with the i20 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrous Power
As far as Petrol engines are concerned, our 1.8 L Toyota Corolla gives better milage than Santro. Hyundai's petrol engines are no where closer to Japs.
Yes, for starters let them focus on making efficient petrol engines. A 1.2 litre i10-AT delivers single-digit FE, which can be shamed by bigger AT engines from Honda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrous Power
We just bought i20 AT. Yes, Hyundai makes amazing diesel engines, but so does Toyota.
Do update on the i20-AT - maybe a separate ownership thread, since i20-AT is rare on the forum and roads. Regarding the Hyundai diesel engines, the earlier versions on Accent had issues around the 70K mark which is like basic usage in an engine's life. Not sure how the new Verna engines fare on this count.
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Old 6th July 2012, 11:54   #143
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Default Re: Korean v/s Japanese

A few years ago we never took the name of Japaneses car makers and Korean car makers in the same sentence. But now due to poor decisions by Japaneses car makers (honda, toyota) and there holier than thou attitude, Korean car makers have started to challenge the Japaneses. Koreans went with a much more parasitical and VFM approach which was what suited the India psyche as a result people decide after considering the pro's and con's of different car in the price range as well as overall VFM factor.
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Old 6th July 2012, 12:11   #144
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Default Re: Korean v/s Japanese

Well in Europe the Koreans have raced past the Japs. Especially when it comes to small cars the Koreans are far more dominant than their asian seniors.

The suprising fact is that Hyundai and Kia are comparably priced with the Japs, especially taking into consideration the chunky discounts and deals the likes of Honda are dolling out lately.

The Japanese have really lost touch with the mainstream market. Neither do their cars really have an engineering advantage over rivals nor do they price them competitively.
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Old 6th July 2012, 12:14   #145
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Default Re: Korean v/s Japanese

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
Compare the Liva's diesel engine to the Mutijet or the CRDi from the i20.

The D-4D is unrefined, not the best in fuel efficiency and not great in performance too. When we talk about long life, have we heard about multijets or CRDis breaking down after 1.5 Lac kms? No.
There are enough stories doing rounds where some earlier Hyundai CRDi's failed after 50K on the odo or with sub par fuel. I specifically mentioned about reliability, IMHO, this is a tougher nut to crack than performance, efficiency etc. Let's not bring in the Multijet. This European engine is tried and tested internationally and in the Indian context. I was merely comparing Korean and Japs.
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Old 7th July 2012, 10:47   #146
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Default Re: Korean v/s Japanese

Quote:
Originally Posted by adityasiera View Post
If my research is correct, then the XUV 500 is based on the Ssangyong C200 Crossover.
Are you sure? I feel the XUV was designed totally in house.

Some resemblance here and there may exist (happens with many models) but we cannot claim the XUV is a Korean design!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourav21 View Post
There are enough stories doing rounds where some earlier Hyundai CRDi's failed after 50K on the odo or with sub par fuel. I specifically mentioned about reliability, IMHO, this is a tougher nut to crack than performance, efficiency etc. Let's not bring in the Multijet. This European engine is tried and tested internationally and in the Indian context. I was merely comparing Korean and Japs.
If this is true, I take back my words. But this should not be a one off case. If it is, then it is not fair to stereotype CRDi engines based on that.
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Old 7th July 2012, 11:06   #147
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Xuv500 was finished in house. M&m decision of buying ssangyong had a lot to do with their almost production ready concepts.

There are a few threads talking about Hyundai crdi engines( esp in the old elantra) going up in smoke as early as 70k kms
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Old 7th July 2012, 12:19   #148
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Default Re: Korean v/s Japanese

My experience:

A. Build Quality

Koreans are very very good in A/B segments. The difference may not exist in C/D segments.

Hyundai Santro Taxis in Mumbai: far, far better than any of the Marutis. Fewer rattles/suspension thuds. The cab guys love it too.

My i10 (current) versus my old Swift (sold): The i10 is leagues ahead in build quality. Nothing rattles.

We had an Accent from 2001 to 2003. Again, can't remember a single rattle.

B. Engines

Petrols: Japs! To me, Hyundai petrols always feel a bit coarse on revving, and always feel less powerful than their advertised bhp. The low-end torque is nice though - not a deal breaker for non enthusiastic drivers

Diesels - the Koreans of course (excluding the national engine..) ! The new Verna's 1.6 just blew me away with it's punchiness and refinement - even the Vento's engine just sounds so CRUDE in comparison. While the Accent CRDi 3 pot had it's share of issues, I think the Verna 1.5 had no major reliability issues.

The Etios's diesel is loud and unrefined, an Innova doing 120 will drone out conversations. Of course they are reliable, but if i'm looking for a diesel sedan, I won't put my money here.

C. Features: The Korean USP of course. Personally speaking, I feel there is still no substitute for an i10 AT! Can seat 4 in relative comfort, superb interior packaging. A-Star - rear seat space? the rest - where's the AT?

D. Handling : Japs, any day. No contest.

Last edited by d_himan : 7th July 2012 at 12:20.
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Old 9th July 2012, 15:07   #149
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Here is one more perspective comparing Japs (Maruti Suzuki) and Koreans (Hyundai).

Comparo 1: My uncle purchased the just launched Santro in 1998 and at that time I was simply amazed at the build quality and the refinement in that car compared to our humble 1993 Maruti 800. In 2002, we bought the Alto and even though it was a comparitively newer car, it never had the refinement or the build quality of the Santro.

By 2004, our Alto was rattling at all places. Doors were creaking, gear stalk was shaking, gear shifts were pathetic and the dashboard felt like it would come off at any moment. Whereas the 6 year old Santro still drove like a charm. Zilch rattles, good ride quality, smooth shifts and amazing maneuverability within the city. It was finally sold off for a handsome price in 2005.

Comparo 2: We decided to part off with the Alto in 2006 and Dad decided to buy a swift inspite of me advising him not to go for a Maruti again. Apparently, he was advised that Maruti improved on the build quality. At the same time, my close pal bought a Hyundai Getz.

Within 6 months of buying our swift, it started rattling. The dashboard plastics were so hard to touch and the door panels feel so flimsy and would vibrate especially when someone shuts them with a little extra force and with windows rolled down. The front bumper simply came off when a moped guy brushed against it. Compared it with the Getz. Even now, there are hardly any rattles. The car accelerates like a rocket and the plastics are 3-4 notches above that of the swift. Ofcourse the swift has good high speed stability. But at that speeds, the rattles are quite annoying and more than the car, our senses gets destabilized.

I felt the above comparisons are apt because both the cars were driven in almost similar conditions and within the same city and in both the cases, the Hyundais clocked more mileage than the Suzukis.
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Old 9th July 2012, 18:45   #150
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Default Re: Korean v/s Japanese

Quote:
Originally Posted by racer_ash View Post
Here is one more perspective comparing Japs (Maruti Suzuki) and Koreans (Hyundai).

Comparo 1:In 2002, we bought the Alto and even though it was a comparitively newer car, it never had the refinement or the build quality of the Santro.
If it is the engine refinement you are talking about, then I have to politely disagree. The Alto's refinement is leagues ahead of the Santro. I have owned both cars (Santro Xing 2003 and Alto 800 2004).

Let me give you another perspective

Maintenance - Santro was a maintenance disaster - within 20K kms the front disk brake rotors were replaced once and the brake pads twice (for both front wheels). While I spent around Rs.50/- for the one and a half years I owned the Alto.

Fun To Drive - The Santro with its short gearing and grumbling engine was absolutely pathetic to drive. When I got the Alto, I realized what I had been missing. A delightful car to drive in the city. The only situation where the Santro scored was while climbing up inclines. Alto did not have enough power climb up inclines as easily.

Reliability - I had a chance to test this out with a Maruti 800 my uncle had. The odo was stuck at 90000. This was a third hand car. I drove it cross country over flood embankments without engine oil and brake fluid for namesake and also dragged the car with one rear flat till I got to a tyre repair workshop (where the tyre [chinese make] was promptly thrown off). Before that, in the same engine oil less and brake fluid less condition I made short inter town trips a number of times. Not that I was deliberately driving in that condition to prove a point, but when I was handed over the car I did not know it had not seen a servicing center for years. Only later when my brother in law in his wisdom thought it was better to take a look under the hood that we came to know what we were driving. The car is still running today.

As somebody earlier remarked in this thread and in my personal experience, Hyundai is all bling - high on flashy content, big marketing and the sort. (One can see with same with Samsung).
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