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Old 28th March 2008, 16:37   #76
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Originally Posted by Gangsta View Post
now Americans themself says Sonata is well ahead of Accord.

As far as customer satisfaction is concerned they are improving a lot and in another up coming year they will be in head to head with Japanese.
Prestigious US ?Consumer Reports? Names Hyundai Santa Fe and Elantra as Best in Category
Strange saying that Sonata is better than the Accord. Could be in the mind but not in the wallet. Accord is the 2nd best selling car in the US (2007 data) behind the Camry. I do not have full year figures for Sonata yet, but for 10 months of 2007 the gap between Sonata and Accord/Camry was as wide as this:

Camry: 398868
Accord: 332815
Sonata 108865

An additional point: Corolla was not recommended by CR this year not because it failed to make the grade (it has been recommended every year for so many years), but because CR had not tested it at the time of publication. Second: from this year, CR is only recommending models which have ESC.

Since people here have quoted CR, Elantra has a CR satisfaction rating of 69% (that many people would buy it again), compared with 77% for Civic and 75% for Corolla. For Sonata, the score is 66% for 4-cyl, and 71% for V6, compared with 92% for Prius, 79% for Accord, and 76% for non-hybrid Camry, and 87% for hybrid Camry.

CR also noted that `Toyota and Honda vehicles have significantly fewer problems than do cars from other manufacturers overall. Moreover, seven-year-old vehicles from Toyota and Honda have roughly the same number of problems as three-year-old vehicles from most other automakers. Toyota, despite a few recent reliability setbacks, has the fewest overall problems with its vehicles as they pass the five-year mark. Younger Hyundais are fairly reliable, but the average Hyundai of five years and older is among the least reliable. That doesn't mean that newer vehicles will suffer the same fate down the road. In the past few years, the Korean manufacturer has greatly improved the quality of its cars'.

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Old 28th March 2008, 16:38   #77
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Originally Posted by asr245 View Post
A stock verna cant even smoke the stock NHC VTEC (from reviews I have read). It's the higher torque of the diesel which gives the feeling that the car has a better pickup.
I really don't wanna comment on this.
NHC or Vtec knocking off Verna Diesel?

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Originally Posted by DocG View Post
Yes actually I have driven the Verna [my friend has one in the "sh*t" colour], well My corolla is an H4, cost me a lot more than a Verna or an Elantra [05 model before facelift and price cuts...if I waited 2 months I would have steering mounted audio controls ]

Anyway my point is, my corolla is stock, is an auto, gets me an FE of 7kmpl...
BUT...it's a great cruiser, I drive other cars on the weekend, but on weekdays when I have to drive through congested Mumbai roads, the added
stiff suspension - will suck over potholes
Petes - will be useless even on the highway! [I hate Eastern Express in rush hour]
CAI - Great for sound, maybe will improve FE...
And for service...well a guy from Lakozy Toyota comes to collect my car from my house when It's due for service, so no issues there...

As for Elantra or Verna beating the Corolla...dunno bout that, but it's 60K km on the odo now, and reliability is bulletproof. Only regular maintainence, dents & scratches [not anymore, only let the driver park the car], And all 4 brake disks and pads replaced [I insisted on it, didn't like the brake performance at the time, it's great now...]

And BTW if you went for a 10 lakh Verna you would save over 4.5 lakh over what I paid for my Corolla...HOWEVER note that I have no issues with the fact that I paid so much more for a car which as you put it doesn't stand up to the Verna...because for the reliability she's shown me as DD, shes' unmatched [I have had problems with my Hondas, but not my Toyota]
cheers:
That's good to hear mate, i know toyota = reliability.
my Elantra touched around 37k KM no problems just 4 PADs got changed, 4 Discs are still intact.
Pete's Useless for highways, Switch it off, still Verna a great cruiser after the suspension work. lol. it is for an enthusiast, and CAI wont improve FE but increase performance.

My point is you can afford a 14 lakh car with 7 kmpl mileage and can pay for costly services. Someone like me won't think of keeping corolla, because it can hit my pocket at times. My accent's service costs me around 2.5K and elantra's around 4k. Means its not hitting my pocket. Don't know about the service and spare parts cost for toyota, but that's for sure it is much more than 4k.

If i want a good car with good mileage and service cost and good power, I can go for Korean Car keeping all the factors in my mind.
Good Build up, Good A.S.S, Service Not too much costly, Fully loaded with ABS + TCS + EBD + BAS + Airbags + 4 discs etc. etc. and ofcourse reliability.
I will ofcourse go for a Korean Car, I want my car to be a killer one, No matter if it don't bring a status symbol which Korean Lacks.

Same with my Accent 1.6L, I had cloaked 78K, Brake Pads changed and just once Oxygen Sensor changed. rest really i havnt faced even a single problem.

Toyota is there for Refinement, But not everybody can Afford Toyota.
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Old 28th March 2008, 16:49   #78
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More data on Koreans vs Japs in the US. The US light vehicle market has declined in Jan-Feb 2008 by 5.6% to 2.21 million. Who have reported the largest declines:

Hyundai -15.6%
Chrysler -13.4%
Mitsubishi -14.5%

Also Porsche, Toyota, Ford, GM, VW.

Korean v/s Japanese-book1.jpg
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Old 28th March 2008, 16:54   #79
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quality wise.. i feel the cars which we get here and same models sold else where are better in quality .. i just saw a swift in dubai.. it had good wheels and all but the overall paint quality was also better.
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Old 28th March 2008, 17:07   #80
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Originally Posted by vasudeva View Post
Strange saying that Sonata is better than the Accord. Could be in the mind but not in the wallet. Accord is the 2nd best selling car in the US (2007 data) behind the Camry. I do not have full year figures for Sonata yet, but for 10 months of 2007 the gap between Sonata and Accord/Camry was as wide as this:
Mate, I was not talking about the Sales Figure bet. Accord and Sonata.
Sales fig is because they believe in Honda or Toyota than Sonata.

No Offense Guys:
In Performance which one is better 1.6L Ikon or 1.6L Palio? and which one janta will go for? Ans. is Ikon. Why? because Fiat don't have a good name in India.

Just like Koreans don't have a good name in U.S.
Even though they are getting same goodies and infact more at lesser price.
Koreans are slowly building up their image in U.S.

Ok i just googled Sonata vs Accord and last i found vs camry while searching for accord:
found few articles:
Comparison Test: Hyundai Sonata Takes on the Accord and Camry
Hyundai Sonata VS Honda Accord slalom test - AOL Video
<-- haha good one.

Money Matters Mate. cheers:
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Old 28th March 2008, 17:10   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasudeva View Post
More data on Koreans vs Japs in the US. The US light vehicle market has declined in Jan-Feb 2008 by 5.6% to 2.21 million. Who have reported the largest declines:

Hyundai -15.6%
Chrysler -13.4%
Mitsubishi -14.5%

Also Porsche, Toyota, Ford, GM, VW.

Attachment 4296
It is a Nice Search Mate.
That's what i'm saying, Koreans are making their impression, In the process of it. Japanese had been into U.S mkt before Koreans.
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Old 28th March 2008, 17:27   #82
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Originally Posted by Gangsta View Post
It is a Nice Search Mate.
That's what i'm saying, Koreans are making their impression, In the process of it. Japanese had been into U.S mkt before Koreans.
That's the decline chart. That's a depression, not an impression !
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Old 28th March 2008, 17:34   #83
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Originally Posted by scorp 1 View Post
That's the decline chart. That's a depression, not an impression !
I know that's a Depression not an impression. So? It takes time to make a name, Japanese tooks years and years. Koreans are new n need time and proving.

What if we take a chart of Japanese, when they were new vs American Brands? Were they terrific? They were pathetic too.

Like i said, one more example for you mate.
In india itself, which one janta will prefer?
Swift 1.3 MJD?
or
Palio 1.3 MJD?


Ans. Swift I guess, because Maruti Suzuki made their name in India, and fiat couldnt, even though swift is using the same technology with Palio 1.3 MJD will be using.
When Hyundai came to India, People's point of view, Santro was like Yuck, it will be the biggest failure. Mr. Khattar said what's the use of seat belts, MPFI, bla bla bla. Sales was not good. Then? it took time to build the image and now Santro is one of the hot selling car and same with Accent.

so, it takes time. It was not that the sales were costantly up, there can be a downfall too.

Last edited by Gangsta : 28th March 2008 at 17:43.
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Old 28th March 2008, 17:49   #84
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Originally Posted by Gangsta View Post
I know that's a Depression not an impression. So? It takes time to make a name, Japanese tooks years and years. Koreans are new n need time and proving.

What if we take a chart of Japanese, when they were new vs American Brands? Were they terrific? They were pathetic too.
In 1970, in the US car market (not light trucks/SUVs), US players had 86%, Japs 3%, Europe 8%.
1975: US 82%, Japs 9%, 7%
1980: 74%, 20%, 6%

The present picture is posted above.

There is a mag called `Business Strategy Review' published by London Business School. In a 2007 article, it said ` Some Asian manufacturers, such as Toyota, have been able to transcend Western cultural and institutional barriers and superimpose Asian models of supply chain management and cooperation elsewhere. They have realized real advantages in both production and customer satisfaction in the US. Conversely, Asian manufacturers who have been unable to transcend these cultural barriers and who have been forced to adopt essentially Western models, such as Hyundai, have performed poorly in the US market.

Inspite of Detroit's claims that their competitive position has been eroded by rising health care and pension costs and an undervalued yen, Japs have gained because of lower costs ($1200-1300 per car) in the 1970s, and inspite of lower incentives. The US industry’s market share was declining long before it began to incur the costs of pensions and an ageing workforce and has continued to decline during times when the dollar/yen exchange rate was quite favorable for US automakers. From a consumer’s perspective, Japanese automakers have developed a reputation for building high-quality products that suggests that their technology in cars represents better value than American technology in cars.

In 1991, a study by Mannering and Winston in the Brookings Papers on Economic Activity found that a significant fraction of Detroit's loss in market share could be explained by the stronger brand loyalty that American consumers developed toward Japanese producers’ vehicles compared with the loyalty that they had for American producers’ vehicles. Also, the intensity of consumer loyalty toward Japanese automakers. They said that Detroit missed major trends such as the growth in the small-car market in
the late 1970s and early 1980s, the interest in more aerodynamic midsize cars in the late 1980s, and the rise of sport utility vehicles based on pickup truck designs in the 1990s.
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Old 29th March 2008, 04:02   #85
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Originally Posted by Gangsta View Post
That's good to hear mate, i know toyota = reliability.
my Elantra touched around 37k KM no problems just 4 PADs got changed, 4 Discs are still intact.
Pete's Useless for highways, Switch it off, still Verna a great cruiser after the suspension work. lol. it is for an enthusiast, and CAI wont improve FE but increase performance.
Dude I drive an E30 on the weekends, and well E30s are known to be amongst the best handling cars, so yeah trust me I know what an enthusiast wants...but I'm also a realist, and hence was talking about an everyday setting, normal people, not the special ones like us

Quote:
My point is you can afford a 14 lakh car with 7 kmpl mileage and can pay for costly services. Someone like me won't think of keeping corolla, because it can hit my pocket at times. My accent's service costs me around 2.5K and elantra's around 4k. Means its not hitting my pocket. Don't know about the service and spare parts cost for toyota, but that's for sure it is much more than 4k.
I'm sorry I have no idea what the service costs, my dad pays for all that, I do however know how much I spend at the pump and yes I do agree it's not pretty, infact I'm quite unhappy about the low FE...But it's not bad enough to empty my wallet, manual Corolla would just save me about Rs.1000-1500 a month, and that's not enough to for me to sacrifice the ease of an auto in Mumbai traffic.

Quote:
If i want a good car with good mileage and service cost and good power, I can go for Korean Car keeping all the factors in my mind.
Good Build up, Good A.S.S, Service Not too much costly, Fully loaded with ABS + TCS + EBD + BAS + Airbags + 4 discs etc. etc. and ofcourse reliability.
I will ofcourse go for a Korean Car, I want my car to be a killer one, No matter if it don't bring a status symbol which Korean Lacks.
That's precisely the problem, Koreans are banking on the fact that their cars are cheap...that's the problem, cheap does not always mean good. The Japanese on the other hand are relatively cheap, the best quality products at the best price!

Quote:
Same with my Accent 1.6L, I had cloaked 78K, Brake Pads changed and just once Oxygen Sensor changed. rest really i havnt faced even a single problem.
I'm sorry, the thing about my brake pads and rotors, the Toyota guys said they were fine, I just wanted new ones, they weren't really expensive, so thought what the hell...there was nothing wrong with them...

Quote:
Toyota is there for Refinement, But not everybody can Afford Toyota
I'm sorry, I apologise if I may have offended you in any way. I think that all cars in India are overpriced, and can never justify buying a BMW or a Merc for USD 100Gs!!! I think it's the craziest thing ever...My Corolla cost me close to 40Gs US Why can't the government just for once stop reaching into our pockets!!!

O/T: I wanted a Safari, dad said no :(

Last edited by DocG : 29th March 2008 at 04:07.
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Old 29th March 2008, 07:04   #86
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Not that I'm a big fan of Hyundai, but I must say that they have done a pretty decent job with the new Sonata, at least in North America.

Now I know that the Accord has double wishbones all around, but the Sonata isn't too far behind with double wishbones in the front and a multi-link setup at the back. I found out that at highway speeds (60-120 mph), it was extremely stable. Even the four banger with Variable Valve Timing can easily do 140 mph. And the fuel economy is as good as the Accord and the Camry, if not a little better.

Their interiors might be a bit drab, but you get what you pay for. Keep in mind though that the Camry despite being the largest selling sedan in North America had a pretty high number of recalls for their 97-2002 model.

And the tailgate on a 2007 Toyota Tundra (North American truck of the year) cannot take more than 2.5 lbs. There are so many other things I can say about Japanese vehicles, but then no one is perfect in this world.

I still think that you can get a pretty good deal on some of the newer Korean and even American cars.
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Old 29th March 2008, 11:01   #87
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Originally Posted by DocG View Post
Dude I drive an E30 on the weekends, and well E30s are known to be amongst the best handling cars, so yeah trust me I know what an

enthusiast wants...but I'm also a realist, and hence was talking about an everyday setting, normal people, not the special ones like us
Yup, BMW is known for it's Dynamics. Here in india only a bunch of us have BMW. Because it is too costly to buy and especially to maintain. haha We have better

handlers than E30 mate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocG View Post
I'm sorry I have no idea what the service costs, my dad pays for all that, I do however know how much I spend at the pump and yes I do agree

it's not pretty, infact I'm quite unhappy about the low FE...But it's not bad enough to empty my wallet, manual Corolla would just save me about Rs.1000-1500 a month,

and that's not enough to for me to sacrifice the ease of an auto in Mumbai traffic.
Yo! i had been to mumbai, Damn small roads and hell lot of traffic jams, I can understand the mileage part and why u had opted for an Automatic transmission corolla.
I don't remember the place in mumbai, traffic was moving too slow. My friend asked me to drive his Zen. Haha he was shocked, the way I changed the lanes and tearing

up the slow traffic and milking my way out of it. He said You Delhites are really messing up with the traffic in Mumbai. lol
Delhites are good for making their way in the jams


Quote:
Originally Posted by DocG View Post
That's precisely the problem, Koreans are banking on the fact that their cars are cheap...that's the problem, cheap does not always mean

good. The Japanese on the other hand are relatively cheap, the best quality products at the best price!
I know Cheap does not mean its good, But Korean Cars are not bad either.

I don't know about corolla, but vasudeva bro. can confirm it as he has an auto corolla. My friend had met with an accident Elantra GLS headon with divider at 60 kmph. Only Bumper was damaged, and scratches on the left light, thanx to an idiot biker who came infront of us from nowhere. I was really surprised to see that but i was expecting a lot of damage from inside too. Now here comes the best part, When they removed the bumper, there was thick thermocol inside. I knew about this thermocol thing, but when they removed the thermocol, I was shocked to see a thick railing which i havnt seen in any suzuki car no offense guys. I had seen Swifts with teared up bumpers, i had seen SX4 with teared up bumpers but none had this type of torsion railing. This Railing really really saved a lot of parts in the hood. TCS Motor, which is a costly part in Elantra saved, radiator, etc, all because of this Thick Railing. This is one of the hidden fact which i never knew and many of us don't know. They confirmed that such torsion beam is there in my car too. Impressive. Such smart things do matters, even though they are cheap. There must be more hidden facts about Toyotas, Hyundais, Hondas which we don't know.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DocG View Post
I'm sorry, the thing about my brake pads and rotors, the Toyota guys said they were fine, I just wanted new ones, they weren't really expensive, so thought what the

hell...there was nothing wrong with them...
lol, my accent's pads never lasts for more than 17k-20k km, because of high speed brakes. High speed means 140+ kmph because of more highway driving than city driving.
they are cheap: Rs 1200 Pair


Quote:
Originally Posted by DocG View Post
I'm sorry, I apologise if I may have offended you in any way. I think that all cars in India are overpriced, and can never justify buying a BMW or a Merc for USD

100Gs!!! I think it's the craziest thing ever...My Corolla cost me close to 40Gs US Why can't the government just for once stop reaching into our pockets!!!

O/T: I wanted a Safari, dad said no :(
Hey!! come on man don't be sorry for such things and i never gets offended easily. Chillax mate. Cheers Bro. cheers:

Yup, you are very much right about the car being very much over priced.
A person who can afford NHC here in India, can buy Accord in U.S haha and Accord in India means BMW in U.S lol
This is because of the high taxes on the companies, thanx to our polititians.
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Old 29th March 2008, 11:29   #88
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Note from mod: Gangsta and DocG, you guys are starting to go wayy wayy offtopic, discussing your personal rides. For such purpose, please use PM
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Old 29th March 2008, 11:40   #89
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Note from mod: Gangsta and DocG, you guys are starting to go wayy wayy offtopic, discussing your personal rides. For such purpose, please use PM
Sorry for this mod. we will not go for
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Old 29th March 2008, 14:08   #90
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Note from mod: Gangsta and DocG, you guys are starting to go wayy wayy offtopic, discussing your personal rides. For such purpose, please use PM
??? Considering my ride is Japanese, and his Korean, isn't it bang on topic to be discussing them? It's sharing personal experiences about the engineering skills offered by the two afforementioned countries...

Just a thought, but considering I've already recieved 1 infarct, I'll steer clear of personal discussions on this thread...
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