Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 29th March 2008, 14:19   #91
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,644 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocG View Post
??? Considering my ride is Japanese, and his Korean, isn't it bang on topic to be discussing them? It's sharing personal experiences about the engineering skills offered by the two afforementioned countries...

Just a thought, but considering I've already recieved 1 infarct, I'll steer clear of personal discussions on this thread...
Till you were discussing engineering of your cars it was okay, but from recent few posts you guys are going into nitty gritties of your rides, and its turning into a personal battle, best sorted out through PM.
And don't worry you wont get an infraction for going mildly offtiouccheers:
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2008, 17:05   #92
BHPian
 
Gangsta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 622
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocG View Post
??? Considering my ride is Japanese, and his Korean, isn't it bang on topic to be discussing them? It's sharing personal experiences about the engineering skills offered by the two afforementioned countries...

Just a thought, but considering I've already recieved 1 infarct, I'll steer clear of personal discussions on this thread...
So can we cont.? haha bro.

Come on mod its not a personal battle. it is just a general one and i think we are doing respectfully.
Gangsta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2008, 17:40   #93
BHPian
 
katalysm76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bombay
Posts: 120
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Japan is always on the top when it comes to technology. And the Korean brands have alot to learn.
katalysm76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2008, 17:52   #94
BHPian
 
RPMPKDMFF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sharjah
Posts: 169
Thanked: 27 Times
Default

Korean's give really great VFM, but the Japs are still a long way ahead in technology
RPMPKDMFF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2008, 10:17   #95
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,589
Thanked: 454 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by katalysm76 View Post
Japan is always on the top when it comes to technology. And the Korean brands have alot to learn.
I doubt that, Germans are the best when it comes to Engineering!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPMPKDMFF View Post
Korean's give really great VFM, but the Japs are still a long way ahead in technology
Today, technology wise, most cars use similar principles, but call by a different name. Japs are definitely NOT A LONG WAY AHEAD.. They are just cheap builders apeing German / French / Italian designs without much noise.
headers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2008, 12:35   #96
BHPian
 
RPMPKDMFF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sharjah
Posts: 169
Thanked: 27 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
I doubt that, Germans are the best when it comes to Engineering!



Today, technology wise, most cars use similar principles, but call by a different name. Japs are definitely NOT A LONG WAY AHEAD.. They are just cheap builders apeing German / French / Italian designs without much noise.
I personally prefer American, I love the sound, feel and raw power of American Muscle any day, ofcourse with the position of the world today they aren't the wisest choice. But the thing is this was a comparison between Japs and Koreans, and between the two, the people from the rising sun are definitely out in front. The tech part is true though, all manufacturers basically have the same stuff, just under different names.

As for cheaply apeing the Gerries, French and Italians, they seem to be doing a damn good job of it as the sales figures show. And while on the topic of creative imitation, what is your stand on the Chinese manufacturers, the vehicles out from there are almost identical to the Japs, ofcourse for cheaper. One of the Chinese firm even have a concept targeted at the Rolls Royce (but it might not reach production)
RPMPKDMFF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2008, 14:39   #97
Senior - BHPian
 
ram_hyundai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Calicut ,trisur
Posts: 2,019
Thanked: 48 Times
Default

As far as India is considered japs rule the roost and Koreans are close behind.I remember a display by daewoo in Bangalore.They had an SUV on display which was brilliant.The front left side seats could be turned back and the back row middle seat could be folded down so that it became a teapoe.Enough space and build quality was also good.They had a nubira,magnum alongside this SUV.
ram
ram_hyundai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2008, 18:32   #98
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,589
Thanked: 454 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPMPKDMFF View Post
And while on the topic of creative imitation, what is your stand on the Chinese manufacturers, the vehicles out from there are almost identical to the Japs, ofcourse for cheaper. One of the Chinese firm even have a concept targeted at the Rolls Royce (but it might not reach production)
The chinese are good when it comes to small labor intensive work. I doubt they could do precision. I'm told that "the understanding" is the most difficult part for the chinese. Once understood, they seem to ape well too.

Infact, I believe, japanese designs have a lot of hidden aspects, and even their service manuals do NOT reveal why, a particular part is fixed that way! They ALWAYS expect, the ROW [Rest of the World] to come to them in case of a problem and also, always claim having problem understanding our POV.

The Americans and Europeans are more magnanimous and are not as selfish as the Japanese.

Thats my opinion!
headers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2008, 18:38   #99
BHPian
 
RPMPKDMFF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sharjah
Posts: 169
Thanked: 27 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
Infact, I believe, japanese designs have a lot of hidden aspects, and even their service manuals do NOT reveal why, a particular part is fixed that way! They ALWAYS expect, the ROW [Rest of the World] to come to them in case of a problem and also, always claim having problem understanding our POV.

I pretty much agree with you on this point, most often the owner is left wondering about some of the parts and the use of it. That is a valid point.
RPMPKDMFF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2008, 15:21   #100
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,175
Thanked: 128 Times
Default

We all know that Korean car industry is now relatively successful, especially Hyundai. However, some early history makes for some funny and some interesting reading:

Till the late-1960s, the Korean government, out of concern for the quality of Korean-made parts, restricted local auto parts manufacturers to the production of `non-lethal' components, that is, parts that are not related to vehicle safety.

In the 1970s, the production of cars automobiles in the Third World was dominated by three Latin American countries (Brazil, Mexico, and Argentina), which accounted for 85% of production. During the 1980s, however, Korea's production increased from 50,000 to nearly 1 million, and Korea became the Third World's leading auto exporter.

Hyundai, in the words of one of its executives, `aims to be one of the world's leading auto manufacturers." Such ambitions proved to be beyond it, as soon as it was said as after the export restraints on Japanese cars in the US ended in the early-1990s, Korean presence also dwindled. Quality also mattered with Hyundai's Excel being at the bottom in reliability. The problem acknowledged by Hyundai is that individual parts of Hyundai vehicle are excellent when they are evaluated separately, but there is a problem with `disharmony' when they are put together. This disharmony has done critical damage to the image of Hyundai.

Korea exported its first automobiles in 1976, sending six cars to Ecuador in a barter-exchange arrangement for... bananas!

There is a huge difference between why Hyundai is still around, relatively successfully; and why Daewoo and Kia are either dead or acquired. The problem was with ownership: Daewoo (GM and Isuzu) and Kia (which sold outdated Mazda models). All went through the screwdriver stage, but Hyundai was not owned or in alliance, and so eventually went to develop its own models and investing greater amounts in R&D.

Hyundai entered the US market at the right time. The voluntary auto restraints (VAR) since the early 1980s limited the export of Japanese cars to the US. Because of the VAR, just prior to the introduction of the Excel, there was such a scarcity of product at the low end of the market that Hyundai received over two thousand applications for one hundred and fifty dealerships to sell a car as yet unseen, built by a company which had neither sold a single car in the US nor ever produced one which could meet American emissions and safety standards. When Hyundai first introduced the Excel in 1986, the VAR on Japanese exports had been on 4 years. Since they could not increase revenues by increasing the number of cars sold (limited to 1.3 million per annum), Japanese chose to increase revenues by shifting production to larger, more expensive cars which yielded a higher profit per unit. This shift away from the lower end of the market created a tremendous pent-up demand for inexpensive, new cars just as the Korean vehicles were coming on line.

However, the Japanese were not sitting idle. They opened plants in the US, which did not count against the VAR quotas. This allowed Japanese firms to reenter the low end of the market and take the Korean upstarts to the cleaners. With extremely poor quality, the Excel now competed against `used cars' and the Yugo.
vasudeva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2008, 15:38   #101
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,175
Thanked: 128 Times
Default

I have an article on the first century of `A Century of Automobility' by Rudy Volti in Technology and Change (1996).

It says that a June 1907 article in an American journal `Motor Age' proved uncannily prescient. At that time, there were no Japanese in auto making. Yet, the author stated `Americans and Englishmen and Frenchmen will have some day found in Japan a competitor in the manufacture of motor cars. There is nothing that escapes a Japanese, he is out to learn and to improve after he has learned. He is the one to watch'.
vasudeva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2008, 20:56   #102
BHPian
 
Gangsta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 622
Thanked: Once
Default

Good History Searching Work Vasudeva bro. What about the present and future? Will koreans can come upto japanese quality in another 4-5 years will less price?
Gangsta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2008, 22:04   #103
rks
BANNED
 
rks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ??
Posts: 1,237
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigman View Post
Own a Korean car for a few years and you will get your answer. It will take another 10 years for Korean companies to get quality to the level the Japanese are at now but by then the Japanese car majors would have further improved their quality so the lag will remain.
I have owned my old Santro (1 lit) for almost 8 years now. Prior to that I have owned a M800 (95 model) for about 5 years. My opinion is that Hyundai already makes cars of oustanding quality, at least for the Indian market. My Santro has done 70000 kms and is still as reliable as ever. I have been floggging my Santro at full speed every week on the Pune-Mumbai-Pune route for almost 3 years now, often late at night, on good/bad roads and in heavy rain and the car has never let me down. The outstanding handling of this car in pressure situations has saved my neck innumerable number of times. I wouldn't exchange it at this point for any Japanese car. When I buy my next car (maybe 2-3 years from now) it will be Hyundai for sure.
rks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2008, 12:36   #104
Senior - BHPian
 
ram_hyundai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Calicut ,trisur
Posts: 2,019
Thanked: 48 Times
Default

Hyundai had been VFM as far as India is concerned but they have to come ahead of the japs here in terms of quality.
ram
ram_hyundai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th April 2008, 06:42   #105
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North America
Posts: 960
Thanked: 3 Times
Thumbs down

As far as countries like India, Brazil, Russia etc. are concerned, the quality level expected by the average car buyer makes the Koreans and the Japanese pretty much similar. I mean look at the build quality of "domestic" cars about 10 years back (Maruti 800, Indica, Ambassador, Omni, Esteem), wasn't quite world class either.
Then came the Koreans and Japanese with their economy cars (Santro, Swift, Getz etc) and there was some competition in the market.

I think even in 2008, most of the budget car buyers in India don't care much about interior quality, aesthetics, safety in a car as long as it gives good fuel economy and lasts at least 15 years and is cheaper to maintain.

It's still not like European and North American countries where even the cheapest cars achieve 5 star crash ratings and come equipped with airbags, fancy seat belts and have to pass strict bumper regulations for both passenger and pedestrian safety.

As long as it stays like this, both Koreans and Japanese and even the "domestics" have nothing to worry about.
sujaylahiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Foreign Language thread: French, German, Japanese, Korean girishglg Shifting gears 53 6th November 2017 20:55
Five years of living with a Korean product - Chevrolet Optra Rudra Sen Long-Term Ownership Reviews 112 6th January 2016 16:46
From a Korean H to Japanese H - Pre worshipped Honda Civic autofreak Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 32 2nd February 2012 12:29
Korean Supercar. v12 The International Automotive Scene 24 30th May 2010 16:07
A Korean car is American car of the year. drpullockaran The International Automotive Scene 34 19th January 2009 16:55


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 13:30.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks