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Old 9th April 2008, 12:17   #121
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Perhaps one thing that can be observed in the automotive industry is that an export oriented strategy (like the Japanese post WWII and Korea/Hyundai) from the 1970s onwards could explain their success in both sales and quality improvements. About Suzuki, I do not want to say much, except that they have had not much success beyond India and Japan.


Japanese manufacturing quality also began to improve only after WWII because of an export led strategy. Prior to end of WWII, the limited spread of mass production technology, and the prevalence of highly unscientific, unsystematic, rule of thumb techniques translated into a poor product precision, unreliability, and lack of uniformity. The `cheap and shoddy’ character of Japanese manufactures reached its low during the War, when quantity led to the virtually complete sacrifice of quality. Because of dictats from the Military to keep production, Toyota even manufactured trucks with one headlight. During the war, the Japanese industry produced innumerable planes which `could not keep in the sky long enough to meet any enemy plane to fight with’. Post War, the biggest hurdle for the Japanese Govt. Which adopted the export-led growth strategy was the extremely abysmal international reputation of Japanese goods.

As a result, the Union of Japanese Scientists and Engineers (Nihon Kagaku Gijutsu Renmei, usually abbreviated JUSE) was formed.If you research JUSE, you may find that the history of JUSE and the evolution of the Japanese quality movement are intertwined and inseparable: JUSE pioneered the study and adoption of Quality Control (QC) in Japan immediately after the war and, even today, continues to be the driving force in quality research, training, and publicity.

There is so much data and research that I can share with interested members, including research papers. You may PM me.

Last edited by vasudeva : 9th April 2008 at 12:18.
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Old 9th April 2008, 12:35   #122
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I am actually not biased from what happens in the US, but I still have a bias against Korean cars. The two Korean cars which I found good are the Matiz and the Optra. The rest I have a bias against.

This does not start or end with cars, it even goes to appliances like refrigerators and TVs. There's something in the national brand that still needs development in my mind. In LCDs, Samsung produces most of Sony's LCD TVs, but I still have a bias that Sony is better. I might be one of the laggards here to catch up on the Korean quality, as many were when Japanese did their resurgence in the 60s and 70s. So I am not in a position to say my bias is justified, but I can only say it exists.
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Old 9th April 2008, 19:44   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VBV View Post
I am actually not biased from what happens in the US, but I still have a bias against Korean cars. The two Korean cars which I found good are the Matiz and the Optra. The rest I have a bias against.

This does not start or end with cars, it even goes to appliances like refrigerators and TVs. There's something in the national brand that still needs development in my mind. In LCDs, Samsung produces most of Sony's LCD TVs, but I still have a bias that Sony is better. I might be one of the laggards here to catch up on the Korean quality, as many were when Japanese did their resurgence in the 60s and 70s. So I am not in a position to say my bias is justified, but I can only say it exists.
I have an apreciation for the daewoo cars for sure and hyundai in india is not that bad too.Cielo inspite of being out of production since ages is still running quite good and many are being maitained in perfect condition.A good drivers car during its times.
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Old 5th July 2012, 14:44   #124
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Default Re: Korean v/s Japanese

4 Years have passed since the last comment on this thread was made, with the majority still divided. We have seen further onslaught of Japs and Koreans.

I am not talking about engine performance or driving pleasure. My point is to do with Quality only.

Brilliantly done Japs
Ertiga
Brio
Micra
Sunny

Bad Japs
Etios/Liva
Swift
Alto K10

Brilliant koreans:(or Rather i Say Hyundais)
New Sonata
New i20
New Verna

It seems like Koreans have not only caught of with the Japs but have surpassed them in some areas.

However If we bring in fun to drive and engine performance the ball game kind of swings back to the Japs.

**Mods please dont kill me for reviving a OLD thread.**

Last edited by adityasiera : 5th July 2012 at 14:52.
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Old 5th July 2012, 15:21   #125
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Korean cars are like chinese phone. You get each and every feature for a lesser price. Hyundai is just another korean company which I can relate to another korean manufacturer Samsung mobile. Wow so many iterations of Galaxy, wave, corby all same look with slightly different features. Similarly so many iterations of i10, Verna, sonata now all cars have fludic theme. They change the model so fast 2 yr product looks outdated. It looks like use and throw market similar to mobile phone.

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Old 5th July 2012, 15:58   #126
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Originally Posted by vijaycool View Post
Korean cars are like chinese phone. You get each and every feature for a lesser price. Hyundai is just another korean company which I can relate to another korean manufacturer Samsung mobile. Wow so many iterations of Galaxy, wave, corby all same look with slightly different features. Similarly so many iterations of i10, Verna, sonata now all cars have fludic theme. They change the model so fast 2 yr product looks outdated. It looks like use and throw market similar to mobile phone.

Regards,
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Not anymore, i20 is costliest hatchback.
Verna is among the costliest C segment sedan.

Service & part cost has increased substantially over the last few years.
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Old 5th July 2012, 16:50   #127
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Default Re: Korean v/s Japanese

Let me be the odd one out and say that, today I prefer a Korean car to a Jap car. I am comparing the Hyundai to Suzukis, Nissans, Toyotas and Hondas.

Well, I am a dieselhead, so I am not too fascinated about the free revving motors of the Honda and Suzuki. I have driven the Jazz and yes, the motor is free revving but it did not have the grunt to make it a comfortable city drive. The low end power was terrible. Surprisingly, I noticed the same with the latest K series engine in the new Swift, the older Swift was far more drivable. Japs are good when it comes to space management in the cabin, especially Micra and Jazz. But they feel too flimsy and I am not particulary comfortable in any Jap car. Please dont compare the humble Hyundais to the Accord and Teana please!

On the other hand, Japs dont have a good diesel engine. Maruti sources its engines from FIAT and Honda till now does not have a diesel engine.

Whereas, Hyundais make amazing diesel engines. I feel Hyundais are much more stylish too. Compare SX4 to Verna, Brio to i10 and Liva to i20. I have heard many complain that Hyundais give more features but they are built to a price. I really dont agree to that. The i20 and i10 offers much better quality than the Brio, Liva and even Swift to some extent. Jazz is an exception, but we all know how it was initially priced.

Overall I feel Hyundai cars are good on power, comfort, styling, features and price. They are just targeted since they are "korean". I find it amusing when some friends buy a compromised car (for the price) and then show their superiority since they bought a "JAP" car. Cmon, the tag on the grille is not everything, look beyond that...
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Old 5th July 2012, 16:59   #128
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Bad Japs
Etios/Liva
Swift
Alto K10

**Mods please dont kill me for reviving a OLD thread.**
Why is Swift a "Bad Jap"?
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Old 5th July 2012, 17:05   #129
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Let me be the odd one out and say that, today I prefer a Korean car to a Jap car. I am comparing the Hyundai to Suzukis, Nissans, Toyotas and Hondas.

On the other hand, Japs dont have a good diesel engine. Maruti sources its engines from FIAT and Honda till now does not have a diesel engine.

Whereas, Hyundais make amazing diesel engines. I feel Hyundais are much more stylish too. Compare SX4 to Verna, Brio to i10 and Liva to i20. I have heard many complain that Hyundais give more features but they are built to a price. I really dont agree to that. The i20 and i10 offers much better quality than the Brio, Liva and even Swift to some extent. Jazz is an exception, but we all know how it was initially priced.

Overall I feel Hyundai cars are good on power, comfort, styling, features and price. They are just targeted since they are "korean". I find it amusing when some friends buy a compromised car (for the price) and then show their superiority since they bought a "JAP" car. Cmon, the tag on the grille is not everything, look beyond that...
I would differ on the point of i10 vs Brio - though both are competent cars, Brio is much better put together than the i10. The i10 is intended more at a sedate driver, who would not exploit the limits of the car, whereas the Brio is much more fun and rewarding to Drive.


then you would have to compare the i20 with the Jazz - and in terms of features the i20 wins hands down, but as someone said earlier in another thread "Honda doesn't have to hide the short comings with gizmos".

The i20 gives it back in style, with its brilliant Diesel engine, which IMO is one of the best in the business today.For a Dieselhead like you the i20 is probably the best hatch in India that money can buy.


As we all know, owning a car is much more than the driving experience, features. It seemed Hyundais are more expensive to own on a long term basis than most Japs. I am not sure about the current situation with these new Hyundais.

Heres a link to another discussion thread
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2830670

Quote:
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Why is Swift a "Bad Jap"?
What i meant was with the new Swift the quality of parts has taken a nose dive. I felt the first gen Swift was built much better, Heck as a matter of fact the old ritz feels assembled better than the new swift.

my cousin has 8000km old swift(new),and boy the car rattles like crazy. I am not sure if anyone else is having such issues.

Last edited by adityasiera : 5th July 2012 at 17:20. Reason: adding link
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Old 5th July 2012, 18:31   #130
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I disagree. The i20 maybe loaded but is no match for the Swift. And the best that money could buy under 10L for a diesel head is a relatively unknown car called Punto 90 HP. I owned a Swift Diesel and have driven an i20 as well. Even with more power, the i20 stacks up poorly when compared to the Swift. The steering rattles and it is a scary place to be after 3000 RPM. The Swift is a hoot to drive in the city and moderate to good on a highway.
I am not for or against neither Japs or Koreans. Each machine has to be evaluated on it's merits. Brio is certainly more of an enthusiast's car than an i10. Similarly, a Swift or a Punto is more of an enthusiasts car than a i20.
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Old 5th July 2012, 18:43   #131
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Japanese companies would also include Mitsubishi. For the debate about quality, I give you three cars: Cedia, Pajero and Montero.

Yes, the Pajero is an old, outdated design. I'd still prefer to drive it over a Santa Fe (Hyundai SUV).
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Old 5th July 2012, 21:10   #132
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On the other hand, Japs dont have a good diesel engine.
I would any day put my money eyes closed in a Toyota diesel mill than a Hyundai one as far as reliability and long life is concerned.
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Old 5th July 2012, 21:24   #133
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I disagree. The i20 maybe loaded but is no match for the Swift. And the best that money could buy under 10L for a diesel head is a relatively unknown car called Punto 90 HP. I owned a Swift Diesel and have driven an i20 as well. Even with more power, the i20 stacks up poorly when compared to the Swift. The steering rattles and it is a scary place to be after 3000 RPM. The Swift is a hoot to drive in the city and moderate to good on a highway.
I disagree when you say the i20 is no match for the swift. It betters the swift in many areas. Space, features, bootspace, quality, low speed ride, performance, engine, refinement. Yes, its not a drivers car and yes the steering rattles in some, including mine. And the new swift is even scarier in its LDi and VDi avatar with those poor brakes. Each car has its pro and cons, but to say a car is no match is wrong. Just one or 2 criteria don't make a car.

Last edited by shivasuma : 5th July 2012 at 21:35.
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Old 5th July 2012, 21:28   #134
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Default Re: Korean v/s Japanese

A few points here that come to mind.

Korea, as on date, has just ONE manufacturer, Hyundai whereas Japan has an entire group. Toyota, Honda, Suzuki and the others.

So, this thread is more like "Hyundai Vs the Japanese Car Cos".

This is a commendable effort and has proven Hyundai's capabilities amply, worldwide.

Yet, Hyundai, in India has been able to consistently maintain and strengthen its stand in the same segments as the Japanese.


Coming to the quality of their cars, the Koreans usually offer more bang for the buck and due to immense advancements they ve made in the recent times, they are almost on par with the generally overpriced Japanese counterparts.

If I were out in the market today for a petrol hatch, I d pick a Hyundai over a Maruti or a Honda simply going by their VFM pricing, on par features, low TCO and most of all, their reliability.
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Old 5th July 2012, 21:58   #135
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I disagree when you say the i20 is no match for the swift. It betters the swift in many areas. Space, features, bootspace, quality, low speed ride, performance, engine, refinement. Yes, its not a drivers car and yes the steering rattles in some, including mine. And the new swift is even scarier in its LDi and VDi avatar with those poor brakes. Each car has its pro and cons, but to say a car is no match is wrong. Just one or 2 criteria don't make a car.
Well then I agree to disagree. The Swift is the best diesel hatch in terms of VFM and the Punto 90HP is the best diesel hatch for an enthusiast. How do I know? I own both

i20 is more bang for your buck, no question about it. Test drive a 90HP and rev it to red line and you will know the difference. Space and features don't make up a car. The Engine, the handling and the safety does. Swift is a very reliable people mover. The Punto is a very engaging and fun to drive car. The i20 is more bling.

Last edited by Pedaltothefloor : 5th July 2012 at 22:01. Reason: Added Text
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