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Old 16th April 2008, 13:46   #46
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Read this 2006 article in NBER about the licence corruption process in India. No checks on driving skills, only bribes for licences.

Does Corruption Produce Unsafe Drivers?
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Old 16th April 2008, 14:42   #47
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Break'ing Skills: How many of us good in applying break? we cruise @120 and hit 160+ but ever applied break on that speed just to learn and understand what will be the distance it will take to complete halt. Have analysed how stable our verhicle when we apply the breaks? If we test this then people will not dare to touch these speeds.
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Old 16th April 2008, 14:50   #48
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We don't follow rules, respect authority nor obey the law. Especially, the educated in India. They think they're 'above' the law. They behave the same way an uneducated driver does by breaking red lights, indulging in road rage and parking in "No Parking" zones. What is the use of education, if they're going to follow those who break them?. Physicians heal thyselves. Let us look at how everyone in India is in some way also responsible for the chaos , before we always keep pointing fingers at the Govt. Govt. can only do so much. How many citizens in India pay taxes vis-a-vis the entire population?. Where do you think the money for good roads is going to come from?.
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Old 16th April 2008, 16:35   #49
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Even if corruption doesnt make bad drivers, it may stop one from becoming good driver.
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Old 17th April 2008, 07:08   #50
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@
swift8847
The auto wallahs always escape. They feel like they have been given the extra right to break the rules and fight in their defence. Very annoying, especially in bangalore and chennai.

Well let me tell you that 90 % of all Richshaws are owned by policemen.
What we see are just the drivers. So mostly the Rickshaws always manage to run away from cops.


Quote:
@nickatnite
We don't follow rules, respect authority nor obey the law. Especially, the educated in India. They think they're 'above' the law. They behave the same way an uneducated driver does by breaking red lights, indulging in road rage and parking in "No Parking" zones. What is the use of education, if they're going to follow those who break them?. Physicians heal thyselves. Let us look at how everyone in India is in some way also responsible for the chaos , before we always keep pointing fingers at the Govt. Govt. can only do so much. How many citizens in India pay taxes vis-a-vis the entire population?. Where do you think the money for good roads is going to come from?.
The basic problem is the moral and the thinking level of the road users.
As you have mentioned, the educated india is probably the worst driver in the entire world. Govt is bad someone from educated india gives them bribe. If all the common man gets disciplined, then most of the corrupt officials will die, because then who will pay the bribe. You are perfectly right in what you have said. I am finding it very difficult to put my thoughts into words.
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Old 17th April 2008, 10:20   #51
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Default Here is the morning's story

Today morning as usual I was driving on the way to my office in Sec - 62. Now there is a straight road there about one km long which is quite smooth, wide and free from much traffic. I normally drive my car to the speed of 80 - 85 kmph on this stretch.

Now, I was driving in the right lane to avoid a rickshaw in the middle lane. Suddenly a cyclewallah turned right from extreme left to make a right turn. I blasted the horn, braked hard and the cyclewallah managed to turn his cycle back to the left lane casually as if nothing was wrong. Cursing in my head I continued on my way.

Now, the question is that God forbid if I had hit the cycle, what would be the actual cause of the accident - Overspeeding or the idiotic cyclewallah ?
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Old 17th April 2008, 10:53   #52
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Originally Posted by nickatnite View Post
parking in "No Parking" zones.
The "No Parking Zone" story: Government allows supermarkets, shopping plaza's, malls and banks to come up with barely any arrangement for parking. Most of these have their entrances almost on the road. Then there is parking chaos and to stop it the government notifies that road as a no parking zone. They then start towing cars and make money. There is one such supermarket coming up near my house and this one doesn't have a parking spot for even one car. Yes, I am serious. The road is the busy Sion-Trombay road that takes you from Mumbai to Navi Mumbai and onto Pune. There is also a mall coming up on the same road. The road is a 3 lane road. The supermarket doesn't have any parking spots. There will be double parking on the road as everyone will want his car parked right in front of the enterance and in no time a 3 lane 'superhighway' will be turned into a by lane. If a layman like me can see the upcoming chaos why can't the expereinced IIT passed out engineers and city planners?

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Govt. can only do so much.
Let the government first do the 'only so much' that they can.

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How many citizens in India pay taxes vis-a-vis the entire population?.
Not too many but the government by their own admission were shocked at the high tax collections that they made in the last quarter of 2007. Where does the money go?

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Where do you think the money for good roads is going to come from?.
The government is charging toll from every vehicle that enters and leaves Mumbai for 'maintainence of roads and improving road infrastructure.' Any small silly road thats made in India is now becoming a toll road. They also levy a surcharge on petrol and diesel sold for the same. .This is something that not many people know. Add one time tax, excise and various taxes on 'luxury items like cars' and I don't think the government is in any need of money to make good roads. After all this what do we get? Highways with paver blocks, potholed roads, roads with no safety or basic direction boards due to which drivers get confused and this results in traffic chaos, many accidents are because under construction roads have no warning signs. I could write about this with real examples and photographs all day!

By the way, toll on the Mumbai-Pune expressway has been hiked. And if I remember correctly, some bridges on that so called expressway also have paver blocks/tiles!
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Old 17th April 2008, 11:11   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shobhit15
Now, the question is that God forbid if I had hit the cycle, what would be the actual cause of the accident - Overspeeding or the idiotic cyclewallah ?
Let us look at it the other way. If you were within the prescribed speed limit, chances are the accident would not happen, inspite of the cyclist's idiotic lane change. This is not to say that I am finding fault with you or that I stick to the speed limit always. Just another way of looking at it.

I agree that the way the cyclist traversed through all the 3 lanes might be wrong, but then what do you expect him to do in a system which is clearly against cyclists & pedestrians ? One thing we really need are cycling lanes. And ofcourse footpaths. These itself will go a long way in not only reducing accidents, but also making driving less stressful for motorists.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 17th April 2008 at 11:12.
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Old 17th April 2008, 11:22   #54
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Let us look at it the other way. If you were within the prescribed speed limit, chances are the accident would not happen, inspite of the cyclist's idiotic lane change. This is not to say that I am finding fault with you or that I stick to the speed limit always. Just another way of looking at it.

I agree that the way the cyclist traversed through all the 3 lanes might be wrong, but then what do you expect him to do in a system which is clearly against cyclists & pedestrians ? One thing we really need are cycling lanes. And ofcourse footpaths. These itself will go a long way in not only reducing accidents, but also making driving less stressful for motorists.
I guess thats a big myth.
I have had 1 accident and 1 near accident on NH1 with 90kmph limit. The first one happened when I was doing around 80-85kmph, and ditto for the second one.
In the first case a biker changed lane without signaling and I rear-ended him sending him flying. He was too stoned to feel the pain, and people gathered on the spot shouting that I was speeding.
Luckily for me a NHAI patrol van was coming behind me, and the police guy ended the arguments by giving 2 tight slaps to the biker and telling him about lane discipline.
I escaped with a scratched bumper to my indica.
The drunken bike guy was asking me to pay for his mudguard and rear tail lights.

In the second incident, a cycle guy came from behind the bushes on the center median without any warning.
I hit the brakes hard and stopped just in time.
He tried to run away, I picked up speed came to his side and gave him a whack on his back which sent him flying into the bushes again(all thanks to my momentum). My hand hurt like hell though.

In both cases if either of them had died, the press would have said "A car travelling at high speed mowed down a cyclist".


Recently 41 schoolkids died when axle of the bus broke due to poor maintenance. I see countless trucks on the road with broken axles, because they overload and do not pay attention to the vehicles health.
Many such trucks while going down overturn and cause damage to other cars which are "speeding" nearby.
So whats the reason for such accidents? Overspeeding?
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Old 17th April 2008, 11:24   #55
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There is one such supermarket coming up near my house and this one doesn't have a parking spot for even one car. Yes, I am serious.
I can identify with one in Shanthi Colony, Anna Nagar in chennai. It is a purely residential colony which has turned into a shopper's paradise & a super market with no space for parking even a motorcycle.
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Old 17th April 2008, 11:34   #56
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
One thing we really need are cycling lanes. And ofcourse footpaths. These itself will go a long way in not only reducing accidents, but also making driving less stressful for motorists.
Do you seriously think that even if cycling lanes were there, cyclists would ever use them?

Let's take a "live" example. The new 27 odd kms long expressway (Delhi-Gurgaon) has slip roads for two wheelers & three wheelers throughout, except for a 3 or 4 km stretch where the slip road is yet to be made.

Now, all 2 & 3 wheelers are expressly forbidden on the rest of the expressway stretch (except for the bit mentioned above). Do you think they give a damn? No! They use the expressway right through, sometimes in the middle lanes, sometimes in the extreme right lane & sometimes in the extreme left lane. Not to mention that they do cut lanes as well. Imagine an expressway where the limit is 100 kmph & you have a three wheeler merrily doing a break-neck 35-45 kmph. Break-neck time for you if you come out of a curve & see him meditating right in front of you.

So, in our country, it really doesn't matter if you give cycle lanes or pedestrain paths or whatever - the mentality of the people will not change. Unfortunately.

Last edited by suman : 17th April 2008 at 11:35.
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Old 17th April 2008, 11:34   #57
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The "No Parking Zone" story: Government allows supermarkets, shopping plaza's, malls and banks to come up with barely any arrangement for parking. Most of these have their entrances almost on the road. Then there is parking chaos and to stop it the government notifies that road as a no parking zone. They then start towing cars and make money. There is one such supermarket coming up near my house and this one doesn't have a parking spot for even one car. Yes, I am serious. The road is the busy Sion-Trombay road that takes you from Mumbai to Navi Mumbai and onto Pune. There is also a mall coming up on the same road. The road is a 3 lane road. The supermarket doesn't have any parking spots. There will be double parking on the road as everyone will want his car parked right in front of the enterance and in no time a 3 lane 'superhighway' will be turned into a by lane. If a layman like me can see the upcoming chaos why can't the expereinced IIT passed out engineers and city planners?



Let the government first do the 'only so much' that they can.



Not too many but the government by their own admission were shocked at the high tax collections that they made in the last quarter of 2007. Where does the money go?



The government is charging toll from every vehicle that enters and leaves Mumbai for 'maintainence of roads and improving road infrastructure.' Any small silly road thats made in India is now becoming a toll road. They also levy a surcharge on petrol and diesel sold for the same. .This is something that not many people know. Add one time tax, excise and various taxes on 'luxury items like cars' and I don't think the government is in any need of money to make good roads. After all this what do we get? Highways with paver blocks, potholed roads, roads with no safety or basic direction boards due to which drivers get confused and this results in traffic chaos, many accidents are because under construction roads have no warning signs. I could write about this with real examples and photographs all day!

By the way, toll on the Mumbai-Pune expressway has been hiked. And if I remember correctly, some bridges on that so called expressway also have paver blocks/tiles!
Anyone who has visited or living in the so-called "developed' world will tell you about tolls, and the many we pay to use the roads and bridges, in addition to paying taxes. Regarding taxes, i agree with your statement, but who is going to support the world's largest and massive social welfare state that actually rewards people for doing nothing else but procreating. Rice for Rs2 a kg?. Who is taking responsibility for this?. I am responsible, as a homeowner , for maintaining the stretch of pavement in front of my house(any weather) , not the municipality , where i live in the US. I guess , here, nobody 'does' their part, the Govt. or the citizens. Everyone is ready to pass on the buck and play the blame game.Meanwhile, the managed chaos continues.
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Old 17th April 2008, 11:37   #58
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tsk, your incidents were on the highway with you driving within the limit, while that was not the case with shobhit. Also, the first biker was drunk and the cyclist deserved to be hit due to the surprise factor, in which case even a speed of 40kmph might not help.

I did not say that shobhit was at fault, inspite of the fact that he was over the limit (we all do that). My point was that at lower speeds, the chances of an accident happening are lesser, due to better anticipation, faster reaction time and ofcourse lower braking distance.
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Old 17th April 2008, 11:44   #59
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Let us look at it the other way. If you were within the prescribed speed limit, chances are the accident would not happen, inspite of the cyclist's idiotic lane change. This is not to say that I am finding fault with you or that I stick to the speed limit always. Just another way of looking at it.

I agree that the way the cyclist traversed through all the 3 lanes might be wrong, but then what do you expect him to do in a system which is clearly against cyclists & pedestrians ? One thing we really need are cycling lanes. And ofcourse footpaths. These itself will go a long way in not only reducing accidents, but also making driving less stressful for motorists.
I agree that if I would be driving slower, the car would have stopped earlier and that would have prevented the accident. However that means that we just reduce the speed limit on the roads and forget about training ppl basic traffic sense. This is exactly what the traffic police in Delhi has done. Earlier the speed limit used to be 60 for cars. Now its 50 and in some places like ISBT it is 40 or something.

Well, how about reducing the speed limit to 10 to avoid any accidents at all ??? I'm not saying that its ok to overspeed but definitely only reducing the speed limit is not the solution.

On the road I mentioned, there is indeed a pavement separated by iron railing. But the cyclewallah was too lazy to take the cycle on the ramp and chose to paddle on the road instead.

The onus definitely lies on the government and it cannot shirk away by saying that overspeeding is the only problem. The seat-belt was a law since many years but only when Delhi (and Noida) traffic police enforced it strictly for a few months did the ppl learn to wear the belts even though most of them do not like to do so.
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Old 17th April 2008, 11:47   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suman
Now, all 2 & 3 wheelers are expressly forbidden on the rest of the expressway stretch (except for the bit mentioned above). Do you think they give a damn? No!
Are they aware that they should not use those lanes ? I mean, as in, are there boards/signs mentioning this ? Asking because in Mount Road here, the 4 lanes are clearly marked (bikes+autos / cars / buses+trucks / service lane) and people use it accordingly. But the new IT corridor does not have any marking and people drive all over the place - maybe they are not aware that they should not be in the fast lane (close to median) in their bike at slow speeds.

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Originally Posted by suman
So, in our country, it really doesn't matter if you give cycle lanes or pedestrain paths or whatever - the mentality of the people will not change.
I don't know about Delhi/Gurgaon, but my comments for having cycling lanes was from what I see in Chennai traffic. These guys literally have a bad time commuting. And worse than them is the case of pedestrians. Motorists leave the stop line even before it has become green for them, which is usually the time for the pedestrians to cross.

And in places where we do have broad pavements (Pondy Bazaar for eg.), it is taken over by hawkers (with political patronage), making people to walk on the road. If we have a pavement, I see no reason why people won't use it ignoring their safety.
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