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Old 17th April 2008, 11:55   #61
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Originally Posted by shobhit15
However that means that we just reduce the speed limit on the roads and forget about training ppl basic traffic sense.
Agree that the cyclist did not exactly show traffic sense while crossing the lane. But what about us ourselves ? When the speedlimit says 80kmph (South India) on highways, have I not cruised along at 120-140 ? Does it not constitute violation of traffic rule ? Was your going above the speed limit not a violation, inspite of your thinking that the limit is absurd ? It is a collective fault here.
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Old 17th April 2008, 12:01   #62
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Are they aware that they should not use those lanes ? I mean, as in, are there boards/signs mentioning this ?
There are signs clearly showing that two & three wheelers are not allowed. Apart from these, when the expressway was opened, there was a major awareness campaign in the newspapers (by the company operating the expressway) & there were verbal campaigns at all major intersections leading up to the expressway entry points.

Any two or three wheeler using the expressway should be aware, most of them blatantly ignore, of course there will be a small percentage who may be ignorant (even though the signs are there they may not know what the signs mean since they would have bribed someone to get their licence so didn't have to take the test)

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And in places where we do have broad pavements (Pondy Bazaar for eg.), it is taken over by hawkers (with political patronage), making people to walk on the road. If we have a pavement, I see no reason why people won't use it ignoring their safety.
Seems to me like you've answered your own question?

Last edited by suman : 17th April 2008 at 12:04.
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Old 17th April 2008, 12:04   #63
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It is a collective fault here.
Exactly. What I'm trying to say is that the goverment cannot point out a single factor like overspeeding without trying to find out that there might be other causes to it.It is the govt responsibility to impart the traffic sense to ppl (including ill effects of overspeeding).

Unless there is a will to look at the traffic problems in totality and initiate sincere efforts of solving it in a holistic manner by taking into account all the problems (be it speeding, lack of common sense, hawkers, dogs etc), the accident and fatalities figure might not see much change.
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Old 17th April 2008, 12:04   #64
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Are they aware that they should not use those lanes ? I mean, as in, are there boards/signs mentioning this ? Asking because in Mount Road here, the 4 lanes are clearly marked (bikes+autos / cars / buses+trucks / service lane) and people use it accordingly.
It took a LOT of concerted enforcement & fines for Mount Road to be 4 laned. I have paid a fine once too for not choosing the right part of the road to change into the service lane. Goes to show 2 things.

1. There needs to be a very strong enforcement of any rule for our mass to follow it.

2. A good concerted effort by our law enforcement agencies can actually make a huge difference on our roads.
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Old 17th April 2008, 12:28   #65
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Goes to show 2 things.

1. There needs to be a very strong enforcement of any rule for our mass to follow it.

2. A good concerted effort by our law enforcement agencies can actually make a huge difference on our roads.
Absolutely right. People will always try to save time and money by driving like a maniac, jumping traffic lights and stop signs. However, in abroad countries the only things that stop them from doing this are stiff punishments and the knowledge that they are being watched by cameras or honest traffic policeman.

In India, these things are missing. So it is a free for all.
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Old 17th April 2008, 12:33   #66
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Cyclists are the no.1 offenders of traffic rules and safety(theirs and others), though i do appreciate that they are the least polluters of the environment and i empathize with them. Atleast they're getting to work with the best available resources they have. I should be cycling and lose some weight!. Yet, that doesn't give them the right to cycle in the middle of the road almost, ride side-by-side and hold up traffic on a narrow street and ride double or triple and shakily move along the road , scaring other motorists. The cops don't enforce them as they do others 'cause there's no point. What are they gonna get?. So, they continue to do what they want on the road. Like Auto drivers, who have police protection.These two segments are the worst offenders of traffic rules on Indian roads.

Last edited by nickatnite : 17th April 2008 at 12:35.
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Old 17th April 2008, 12:36   #67
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Originally Posted by shobhit15 View Post
Absolutely right. People will always try to save time and money by driving like a maniac, jumping traffic lights and stop signs. However, in abroad countries the only things that stop them from doing this are stiff punishments and the knowledge that they are being watched by cameras or honest traffic policeman.

In India, these things are missing. So it is a free for all.
Hmm, stiff punishment is a double edged sword. In the US, we have fines at 300$ (comes to 12KRs). Our minimum fine is 100Rs. I would like to see these fines go up atleast to 3000/-Rs. However, there is another argument that poor people will be penalised beyond their capability. And rich guys can pay it easily. This rule will be especially tough on people who drive for a living. Of course, the other side of the argument is that people who drive correctly will anyway not get fined.

Given these two conditions, a stiff punishment is a very difficult issue to decide.

Btw, the Indian traffic police is one of the poorest departments. They rely heavily on fines, such fines can help in increasing the strength of police and make policing much more effective.
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Old 17th April 2008, 13:49   #68
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What about broken down heavy vehicles standing in the middle of the road with a tree branch hanging from their side to show that the vehicle's broken down?

If a car is doing 80-100 kmph on a 4-lane highway & while taking a curve has an accident with the aforesaid truck, who is to blame? The moronic truck driver for parking his vehicle wherever he likes or the car driver maintaining his pace not anticipating someone to park their vehicle in the middle of the road?
Car Driver is to blame. At no point of time can the driver go at a speed from which he cannot stop the vehicle within his range of sight.
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Old 17th April 2008, 15:10   #69
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Car Driver is to blame. At no point of time can the driver go at a speed from which he cannot stop the vehicle within his range of sight.
Yup that's common sensical as well.
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Old 17th April 2008, 16:29   #70
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Yeah ! Ive seen those stupid pavers lying all over the road, hogging up parking space too.. anyway, in mumbai, they are putting pavers at all intersections (even the good clean ones), pavers are made of concrete, and cause cars to skid on them when wet, so they are removing all the intersections of Tar, which has pretty good adhesion to rubber, and putting concrete.
now when a stupid idiotic two-wheeler rider slips on this material, and a car runs over him, It'll be the car's fault cause he was "overspeeding", the cops generally book you for overspeeding no matter what speed you're going and you can't stop cuz the vehicle in front stopped abruptly... (or the biker lost his balance)
Good points you have made... But, I was wondering how a two wheeler rider simply becomes stupid and idiotic just because his ride has only two wheels and for that reason he is more prone to slipping and falling... Just smelt something technically, politically, diplomatically incorrect...
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Old 17th April 2008, 16:37   #71
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Originally Posted by naikpranav View Post
Yeah ! Ive seen those stupid pavers lying all over the road, hogging up parking space too.. anyway, in mumbai, they are putting pavers at all intersections (even the good clean ones), pavers are made of concrete, and cause cars to skid on them when wet, so they are removing all the intersections of Tar, which has pretty good adhesion to rubber, and putting concrete.
now when a stupid idiotic two-wheeler rider slips on this material, and a car runs over him, It'll be the car's fault cause he was "overspeeding", the cops generally book you for overspeeding no matter what speed you're going and you can't stop cuz the vehicle in front stopped abruptly... (or the biker lost his balance)
So in short the government and your speeding car killed the poor stupid idiotic two wheeler rider.

And you're supposed to keep distance with the vehicle in front. If you hit the vehicle in front it's your fault. Unless the vehicle in front slams it's brakes on the middle of the road for no apparent reason.
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Old 17th April 2008, 17:03   #72
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Hmm, stiff punishment is a double edged sword. In the US, we have fines at 300$ (comes to 12KRs). Our minimum fine is 100Rs. I would like to see these fines go up atleast to 3000/-Rs. However, there is another argument that poor people will be penalised beyond their capability. And rich guys can pay it easily. This rule will be especially tough on people who drive for a living. Of course, the other side of the argument is that people who drive correctly will anyway not get fined.

Given these two conditions, a stiff punishment is a very difficult issue to decide.

Btw, the Indian traffic police is one of the poorest departments. They rely heavily on fines, such fines can help in increasing the strength of police and make policing much more effective.
Such heavy fines will make drivers more weary of their driving habits
But the only way it will help the traffic police is that the hawaldars who catch the offenders will pocket a lot more than they get now, meanwhile the department will stay as is with little improvement.
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Old 18th April 2008, 11:53   #73
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Such heavy fines will make drivers more weary of their driving habits
But the only way it will help the traffic police is that the hawaldars who catch the offenders will pocket a lot more than they get now, meanwhile the department will stay as is with little improvement.

Yeah, I believe the bribe is also not prohibitive enough, now.
If the fine is high, the bribe will also increase to prohibitive levels. :-)

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Old 18th April 2008, 13:45   #74
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Good points you have made... But, I was wondering how a two wheeler rider simply becomes stupid and idiotic just because his ride has only two wheels and for that reason he is more prone to slipping and falling... Just smelt something technically, politically, diplomatically incorrect...
Sorry about that, I was in a bit of a bad mood that day because there was this two wheeler guy, who overtook me at the century junction from the wrong side, cut across in front of me, swerved BEHIND a cab, fell down, n everyone looked at him, after which he got up and started yelling at the cab driver and me, I almost got out to hit him !

my sincerest apologies to all two-wheeler riders who follow rules, know their vehicles, and good citizens...
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Old 18th April 2008, 19:47   #75
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Government has a huge task before them to bring discipline into driving. It should start at the RTOs.
I am not sure so as to who will / should take the responsibility,
i think a person like the PM or leaders having influence should come forward and pass on the message to respective leaders of the villages.

Atleast in my dad's and mom's village, the janta does listen to the Sarpanch(village head) if the message is passed on in simple terms.
What i meant to say is the Big leaders should come forward to get in touch with the small leaders.

An important thing is WE SHOULD COME FORWARD FIRST. Its not JUST that the big leaders does not want to do anything its ALSO that we have not told them to do.

raj.

Last edited by kkr2k2 : 18th April 2008 at 19:51.
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