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Old 29th April 2008, 01:09   #61
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I think we should start discussing what we can do about the issues we have.

Along with the condition of the roads another thing that we and the country can benefit from is population control.

Does anyone have any ideas on what changes we can make to help better the condition the country is in?
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Old 29th April 2008, 01:51   #62
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Sorry to interrupt the free flaw (pun intended) of thoughts ,I would like to put in a few more cents and be gone from this thread (this is pointless argument and any body can go on defending their respective POVs till aeons to come.)



Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
I am not averse to a poor guy getting rice or whatever at 2 Rs/Kg. The thing is, is he really getting it? The government machinery is a complete waste and if the poor guy isnt getting what he is promised at the cost of my money.... my money is being wasted and I have the right to be frustrated.
By all means.. You have every right to be frustrated.LOL. But as per me, If that 2 Rs/ kg rice reaches atleast one out of ten target households, I am happy that I could contribute. I dont know about other places, but i can proudly say that a lot many of the dowtrodden are deriving benefits of PDS, at least in AP as I have first hand info (I cannot say the same with similar amounts of confidence about my home state, KL)


Quote:
Almost everything dude.... do not convert dollars and pounds into Rs and say they are getting their stuff costlier than us. Compare it keeping in mind the salaries we get and the cost of things we buy.
You are definitely wrong here dude. I do not know how you happen to have such a wrong notion. There are definite standards to compare the cost of stuff. One is Purchase parity-it simply means what will be the face value(in currency terms) @ different places for stuff with the same intrinsic value. Another could be Big Mac index this is simpler and easy to understand and very american. How much does a Big Mac burger cost @ different places? (this can get skewed espically in countries like india,where its considered upmarket and sold at a premium.Duh) Iam waiting for the day when India becomes a super power and our economists coin THE BIG IDLY INDEX (the germans might not like that though lol). Cost of living index can also be another metric althogh that varies from city to city, and cannot be taken in face value as much of the indian population is not urbanized and at the best our entrants to the list could be the four metros+Blore and none of them still fare in the top 50 of the world. Still you maintain that things are costlier here? Too bad you are being underpaid.

For the unintiated:

Purchase parity: Purchasing power parity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Big Mac index: Big Mac Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cost of living index:Moscow tops in cost of living; London close behind. They have pdf list of 50 cities as well.None of ours figure in the list.Hopefully because they have lower cost of living.

Quote:
An average indian cannot afford anything more than 2 square meals a day and its a fact.
That is sad and is a fact.Although that should be a matter of concern, being a car forum we should have stuck to the graver issue " An average indian cannot afford a BMW and its a fact " where we could have had a very easy agreement, rather than dwelling into pointless rants like this,where opininions might differ

Quote:
What changes are you talking about here? I see youth for equality coming out opposing reservation because it affects them directly, but none of them had the courage to stand up and say, that I will fight for this country if you vote for me. Why not bring the change instead of waiting for it? We are not progressing my dear... I still dont get clean water, 24 hour electricity, pothole free roads, clean environment and I live in the capital of this once great nation. I cant even imagine the pight of someone living in an interior village in UP.
We are not progressing? We are not changing?
I'm keying these down at 12:47 am, from my LAPTOP, to be posted in an internet forum, acessing internet thru my OTA connection from TATA, this from a not so known village in AP. Ten years back I couldn't have imagined this.My tenth std brother is accessing Yahoo MSGr and Orkut sitting in class thru his mobile via WAP/GPRS. Back when i was in school, even mobiles were yet to be introduced. Recently I did a drive from Chennai to Blore in 3 and half hours flat in a verna, at times even doing 180 indicated. Couldnt have imagined that would be possible 7 or 8 years back.
Now if you look at the "plight of someone living in an interior village in UP"
you can see not much have changed for him in the past 7-8 years.
And yet we are ranting. We the privilleged. We the educated, who work for foreign multinationals for fatten their coffers with the money saved by employing us for a pittance. We the sophisticated, who can spend RS 2500 for 750 ml high energy fuel for our souls.We the liberated who are the first ones to jump at an opportunity to go ONSHORE.

We do not qualify to speak this way.Much of the perceived notions about the Govt, and the Ruling machinery is wrong,and needs to be corrected.I am not talking about politicians/police here.Neither am i justifying the corrupted. I am just underlining the fact that there is a silver lining amidst all thos dark clouds and that is becoming more prominent and visible for the elite and the middle class, and not the common man.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
First of all, I am sorry for going offtopic.
You should be. There is every reason for you to be.

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But then there is what is my point.
What is that point, eh?

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We are not only paying more for cars but also for fuels. And that is what is my point.
Oh this is it eh? Nice point.I'll give you ten points for that. lol

Quote:
My father works with reliance and I know what is refining and selling good fuel. IOC and other government suppliers along with government are simply too corupt.
Kid you are, repeating the same thing again. Kindly provide proof, as claimed in your earlier post.Pls keep in mind that this sort of allegations are akin to character assassination.IOC employs tens of thousands of officers, and majority of them god fearing, hard working individuals like you and me (on second thought,like me only because most of them might not know what is refining and selling good fuel.Complex things for normal people to know,Don't you think?)

There is an old proverb in malayalam. It says "If ones dad climb on an elephant the son dont get his A$$e$ sore" (Mallus forgive me could not find proper words. Somebody offer to word it better.Please)

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I am sticking to one point of fuel, because if that is good many of our problems will be solved.
One problem kya?All will get solved.

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I agree with you all completely that why are we made to pay soo much for cars as compared to developed world.
I too agree to that. And we should hav been discussing that only instead of this pointless mudslinging


Quote:
Someone somewhere pointed out this protectetion ( that is doing us bad only ) policy to the late independence. Well, if you read all my posts in this thread, you will realize that Japan was almost ruined to Ashes after World War 2 and how the Mighty Toyota was basically born out of. They faced Nuclear Bombing in 1945, not long before our independence in 1947. They have the problem of EarthQuakes and space scarcity from day one after the 1945 incidence.
We never had space problem just after 1947. We never had serious earthquake problem just after 1947. Still Japan is way, way ahead of us.
Why? Its basically the Indian mentality. The indian thinking moral should or rather is suppossed to come up.
So now that we have identified the basic issue,and solution also provided by the identifier, things have become much easier.
Now all it takes is to recall all the Indians to their A$$, and reload mentality 1.1 with bugs fixed.
On a serious note, If you accept the fundamental difference between Indians And JAPs in the beginnning itself, why offer to compare.And what does this comparison prove? That things are cheaper ther than it is here? Think again.
Quote:

Then today it wont be toyota leading the world. It would have been TATA.
I hope to see that realized one day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbasak View Post
I don't see any problem on current Indian auto industry. Compared to 1990s, now we already have lots of reasonably priced cars in our market.
Well some people are yet to notice the change it seems.No point telling them either.

Quote:
Although, cars are fuel are comparitive expensive in India, many other things are far cheaper (compared to developed countries) - like cost of education, insurance, manual labour etc.
Exactly . If you keep aside the luxuries, Fundamental things like food clothing shelter(exception our thickly populated metroes where we are fast becoming world leaders)


Quote:
We cry why BMW is not cheaper in India and in western world people cry why stereo of BMW costs as much of a whole car (i.e. Nano)

We win some, lose some
BRAVO.




Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
There is unending debate, but let me talk about the automotive industry.
What happened now? Fuel got over?

Quote:
Rather than have different segments of taxation like lenght and engine, why cant we have rule like Japan. Just fix size of engine and physical dimensions and then fix tax. Rather than have complex things.
You are right, but then remeber-Fundamental Difference- I recollect some YETIPOST about the indian complications-hilarious, yet thought provoking.Iguess same applies here too.

Quote:
What is the quality of education, insurance, manual labour, etc.
Quality of education is good i should say.Again this applies for the middle/upper class only. Insurance? Was a good honest business till a couple of years back.Now its a fish market.(No offence meant.but I am fed up with foncalls for products i dont want) Manual labour? one of the cheapest (barring bangladesh etc..)

Quote:
We cant argue in this fashion that we have relatively cheaper education actually I dont agree with that, inquire at any reasonably good institution for MBA fees and you will come to know
Stick to minimum ten topic in one post for gods sake.It was cars first, then government, then fuels,the mentality, then again automobiles, now MBA. What fuels you aggo?


Quote:
We need better roads, less tax on cars and fuels and simultaneously develop very effecient and clean public transport.
Slowly but steadily we are going that way. Dont expect miracles.If you do, then better watch some hindi movies or some Purana episodes.This is India and not JAPAN

Quote:
Its very very difficult, but not impossible. If we dont do it now, we will suffer. USA came up radically only after it made excellent highways. China made huge impact only after developing and implemention some of the most ambiitious raod projects.
Indeed.You are very true

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We i.e our great Indian economy has suffered horribly with countliess loss of lives only because of bad roads. Had our roads been good, our ecenomy would be in a better state as would be we
Again you are right.

Quote:
Charging excessively for cars is what is happening. As per your claim, we have cheap manual labour, still the cost of cars is so high wheather with less local content or more. And we dont get the full safety equipment like we do in developed countries. Less equipment + extra cost.
May be because our cars are not hand made.Benleys, Rollers etc might come out cheaper if produced here.

Quote:
It is fishy. No arguments can satisfy this.
Thanks for realising that. Now peace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adityamunshi View Post
Sorry for going a bit off topic. But as aagoswami mentioned, its all about the indian mentality.
We choose our leaders based on other frivolous issues and then complain about the same people. And when it comes to doing something, nobody bothers. If you have a road accident there'll be a mob waiting to beat you up but there wont be anybody to stand up for the gross misuse of public funds that is slowly draining our country today.
Imagine where we would have been if only half of that money was being put to rightful use.
Agreed. But does it serve any purpose in discussing such thing, other than the fact that it brings out the ignorance in the minds of the noveau riche in the forum?This petty bourgeousie attitude where anybody who is poorer than you is untouchable and any body richer is corrupt, do not suit this forum.I dont have any point to prove here as I also agree that cars are overpriced here. But then blaming and accusing any and evry except the self under the indian sun also do not prove any purpose.So does half cooked/uncooked knowledge about ones own country and resorting to compare it to others basis this.

Now how better i can conclude this other than with a JAI HIND ?

Last edited by aravindwarrier : 29th April 2008 at 01:53.
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Old 29th April 2008, 02:40   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesal View Post
its just a sad state this thread will go nowhere i know that, i am really just removing my frustrations out here feels good there people like me out there. its even more sad we only choose our politians as well which is one reason i have never voted in my entire life and never will
That is kewl.While the poor and unititated makes it a point to excercise their constitutionally bestowed right(duty as well) of universal adult franchisee,U can enjoy the holiday witha chilled bear, couple of like minded friends for company, despising the political scene and detaching from what is happening around you.
And then cry foul. By failing on your duty asa citizen to make your choice, you automaticaly relinquish your fundamental right to cry crib and complain

Quote:
just today i got in a brawl with a cop he had ***** to open my door and shouting and my freaking GF was right next to me, i swear if he came more close i would have slapped him and beat the **** out of him. though i took his case in the end royally so its ok, but no ways he should try and get into my property
Thats very unfortunate.Hope he learned his lesson

Quote:
Originally Posted by jesal View Post
i dont know how many will agree but i feel india tripped on its own feet getting independence. had british still ruled i think it would not have been so bad since we could have got independence sometime or another. but this just sucks
Aaah ! ignorance indeed is bliss .I have a feeling that i might get a life ban from the forum i love if i choose to reply to that one.So I'm exercising my right to remain silent.

[Mods pls close this thread this is going nowhere]

Last edited by aravindwarrier : 29th April 2008 at 02:51. Reason: toned the language down.
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Old 29th April 2008, 05:52   #64
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Absolutely well put, Aravind ! Could not have put it better myself...some of the posts/initiatiors in this thread sound like for the lack of a better term "Air-heads". I wouldn't be surprised to see my post deleted.

Mods- Do close this thread. This incessant ranting is not really going anywhere.

Last edited by RJK : 29th April 2008 at 05:55.
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Old 29th April 2008, 06:10   #65
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I have been following this thread religiously and all I have to say is that yes we have a lot of issues in this country, but we definitely have made progress here. We cannot compare India in "certain aspects" to other countries, because our problems are unique.

I would like to make a suggestion, instead of closing this thread maybe we can brainstorm and come up with ideas to make things better, I already mentioned this earlier. As a complaint thread it is going nowhere, but maybe as a solutions thread we could come up with some great ideas.
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Old 29th April 2008, 07:18   #66
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Everyone is busy complaining about how expensive a 3 Series or an Accord is in India. How important is that to 99% of the country? Compare the cost of living abroad and in India. I pay $2.75 each way to use the bus in Toronto. BEST has never made me pay for than Rs. 14. Look at the cost of vegetables, of oil, of things that 99% of India really wants and needs. I live fairly close to the airport and pay $40 for a cab to my home. Same thing in Mumbai isn't more than Rs. 250 ever. I pay 300 to get my car washed everyday by hand. I believe a single carwash in Toronto is around $10.

Also, its not just about Tata and Mahindra but most industries in India that have really profited from protectionism. Do you think Big Bazaar or for that matter your local grocery store would be anywhere if it had to compete with Walmart from Day 1? Today Big Bazaar is in a position to compete with Walmart in India and thats what it is doing. Its not just these few companies here and there but almost every one of us that was into business in before the economy opened up was given a chance to prosper and develop ourselves during this period.
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Old 29th April 2008, 07:21   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesal View Post
i have never voted in my entire life and never will. just today i got in a brawl with a cop he had ***** to open my door and shouting and my freaking GF was right next to me, i swear if he came more close i would have slapped him and beat the **** out of him. though i took his case in the end royally so its ok, but no ways he should try and get into my property


If you don't vote, how do you expect politicians to care about what you have to say?

Beating the **** out of a cop? hmmm Try doing that anywhere in the world and I assure you you will be behind bars for a long time.
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Old 29th April 2008, 07:23   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aravindwarrier View Post
You are definitely wrong here dude. I do not know how you happen to have such a wrong notion. There are definite standards to compare the cost of stuff. One is Purchase parity-it simply means what will be the face value(in currency terms) @ different places for stuff with the same intrinsic value. Another could be Big Mac index this is simpler and easy to understand and very american. How much does a Big Mac burger cost @ different places? (this can get skewed espically in countries like india,where its considered upmarket and sold at a premium.Duh) Iam waiting for the day when India becomes a super power and our economists coin THE BIG IDLY INDEX (the germans might not like that though lol). Cost of living index can also be another metric althogh that varies from city to city, and cannot be taken in face value as much of the indian population is not urbanized and at the best our entrants to the list could be the four metros+Blore and none of them still fare in the top 50 of the world. Still you maintain that things are costlier here? Too bad you are being underpaid.

For the unintiated:

Purchase parity: Purchasing power parity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Big Mac index: Big Mac Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cost of living index:Moscow tops in cost of living; London close behind. They have pdf list of 50 cities as well.None of ours figure in the list.Hopefully because they have lower cost of living.


Finally some facts!!!!
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Old 29th April 2008, 08:24   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aravindwarrier View Post
Sorry to interrupt the free flaw (pun intended) of thoughts ,I would like to put in a few more cents and be gone from this thread (this is pointless argument and any body can go on defending their respective POVs till aeons to come.)
And so are you... isnt? Hardly makes a difference because this wont change anything.



Quote:
Originally Posted by aravindwarrier View Post
By all means.. You have every right to be frustrated.LOL. But as per me, If that 2 Rs/ kg rice reaches atleast one out of ten target households, I am happy that I could contribute. I dont know about other places, but i can proudly say that a lot many of the dowtrodden are deriving benefits of PDS, at least in AP as I have first hand info (I cannot say the same with similar amounts of confidence about my home state, KL)
What happens to the other 9? This might be the case in AP as you say, but looking at the bigger picture to me things look bleak.



Quote:
Originally Posted by aravindwarrier View Post
You are definitely wrong here dude. I do not know how you happen to have such a wrong notion. There are definite standards to compare the cost of stuff. One is Purchase parity-it simply means what will be the face value(in currency terms) @ different places for stuff with the same intrinsic value. Another could be Big Mac index this is simpler and easy to understand and very american. How much does a Big Mac burger cost @ different places? (this can get skewed espically in countries like india,where its considered upmarket and sold at a premium.Duh) Iam waiting for the day when India becomes a super power and our economists coin THE BIG IDLY INDEX (the germans might not like that though lol). Cost of living index can also be another metric althogh that varies from city to city, and cannot be taken in face value as much of the indian population is not urbanized and at the best our entrants to the list could be the four metros+Blore and none of them still fare in the top 50 of the world. Still you maintain that things are costlier here? Too bad you are being underpaid.

For the unintiated:

Purchase parity: Purchasing power parity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Big Mac index: Big Mac Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cost of living index:Moscow tops in cost of living; London close behind. They have pdf list of 50 cities as well.None of ours figure in the list.Hopefully because they have lower cost of living.
Purchase parity is fine but the income earned should also be kept in the mind. London or Moscow may be the costliest to live in for someone who is not from the city itself... but people living there earn enough to have decent living standard... much much better than you and me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aravindwarrier View Post
That is sad and is a fact.Although that should be a matter of concern, being a car forum we should have stuck to the graver issue " An average indian cannot afford a BMW and its a fact " where we could have had a very easy agreement, rather than dwelling into pointless rants like this,where opininions might differ
Yeah and you will not change my opinion with your rants.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aravindwarrier View Post
We are not progressing? We are not changing?
I'm keying these down at 12:47 am, from my LAPTOP, to be posted in an internet forum, acessing internet thru my OTA connection from TATA, this from a not so known village in AP. Ten years back I couldn't have imagined this.My tenth std brother is accessing Yahoo MSGr and Orkut sitting in class thru his mobile via WAP/GPRS. Back when i was in school, even mobiles were yet to be introduced. Recently I did a drive from Chennai to Blore in 3 and half hours flat in a verna, at times even doing 180 indicated. Couldnt have imagined that would be possible 7 or 8 years back.
Change is inevitable but the question is are we chaging for good? I was talking about things as basic as clean water, 24 hour electricity, good roads and a clean environment in the capital of this country. The things you are talking about are things we consume and we pay for it, because we can and this is consumerism. I would not dare associate it with development.
Have you ever given a thought to the thousands of farmers who are comitting suicides every year? As you write on your laptop using whatever, a farmer somewhere has comitted suicide but heck why would you care as long as you can use your laptop.
Ever thought about the plight of a farmer and what he would have gone through when he burnt himself in a district magistrate's office, for he wanted to transfer the land in the name of his father after death to his name and was asked to pay 5000 Rs as bribe. And when he couldnt, they made him run for 6 months doing nothing, making him take this drastic step, destroying his whole family in process. And you know what's driving this madness for money... its consumerism.
Or a biker who was left lying on the road for 2 hours after an accident while the policemen fought over their areas of jurisdiction?
And all these incidensts are just a day in life of India in TOI's delhi's edition.
Are you the one who reads newspapers or sees the news channels only to know what Rakhi Sawant is upto and that Amitabh Bacchan caught cold?
Ever thought what brought this change or shift or sheer ignorance of everything that happening around us?
A half hour news bulleten on National Television was much better than 90% of the so called 24X7 news channels.
And why do you think this is happening... they only show what we want to see.
So a Rakhi Sawant breaking up with her boyfriend, or AB getting cold or whatever crap they call it news takes more importance than grave national issues which are in front of us and will effect us in long run.
I can see the change but most of it is not for good for sure when it should have been the other way round.
The fact of the matter remains, I still cant go to police and file a FIR without a bribe. And if its grave crime they wont even register a case since it effects their crime graph?
There is zero accountability as far as government machinery is concerned. A few days back in TN? 4 babies were killed after being given the government sponsered vacination.
A terrorist can get a fake passport in J&K while the officials do away with the bribed money what happens to the soldiers families of all those who are killed in an attack by the same terrorist? Again has anything being done about it... unfortunately No, even when you know that a passport is issued by a certain office in the state and those are the only people responsible for it. Is it so difficult to find the culprit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aravindwarrier View Post
We the educated, who work for foreign multinationals for fatten their coffers with the money saved by employing us for a pittance.
We the sophisticated, who can spend RS 2500 for 750 ml high energy fuel for our souls.We the liberated who are the first ones to jump at an opportunity to go ONSHORE.
Where are government jobs for a general catagory guy like me? They are all reserved in the name of vote bank and if at all an IIM graduate like Manjunath decides to join a PSU to bring about change, this is what happens to him.
'My son told me about the mafia, he was killed for doing his duty for IOC'
Or a certain IIT engineer who was killed when he tried to expose corruption in the golden quadrilateral project
martyr S. K. Dubey Case Momentum of martyr SKD not converted to MOVEMENT for WHISTLEBLOWERS by SKDF

Have the guilty been booked? Has the root cause taken care off? Do we even remember these people? NO..
Have we ignored their sacrifices completely? Yes.
Sad state of affiars... Yes!
These multinational pay you more than a government job would ever and there will be rewards and appreciation for all good that you do in the company.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aravindwarrier View Post
We do not qualify to speak this way.Much of the perceived notions about the Govt, and the Ruling machinery is wrong,and needs to be corrected.
Please correct me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aravindwarrier View Post
I am not talking about politicians/police here.Neither am i justifying the corrupted. I am just underlining the fact that there is a silver lining amidst all thos dark clouds and that is becoming more prominent and visible for the elite and the middle class, and not the common man.
Unfortunately the silver lining is what you see it as, I dont.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aravindwarrier View Post
Exactly. If you keep aside the luxuries, Fundamental things like food clothing shelter(exception our thickly populated metroes where we are fast becoming world leaders)
Still living in the past... are you? For a developing economy like India food, shelter are not the only basic necessities add clean water, hygiene, affordable healthcare, 24 hour electricity supply.
Even then, shelter is a problem in all the metros and a salaried individual cannot even think of owning an apartment now a days and with inflation on the rise the day is not far when food will be a luxury for many too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aravindwarrier View Post
Quality of education is good i should say.Again this applies for the middle/upper class only. Insurance? Was a good honest business till a couple of years back.Now its a fish market.(No offence meant.but I am fed up with foncalls for products i dont want) Manual labour? one of the cheapest (barring bangladesh etc..)
With extra 27% reservation for the OBC in which the government wants to include the creamy layer as well, the education will suffer the same fate as well. And no our schooling system is the worse you will find anywhere... its a rat race.
And why inspite of all the IIT's and the Infosys and the TCS, we still dont have a Microsoft Windows? The examples are many but I would like to dwell... this post is already very long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aravindwarrier View Post
May be because our cars are not hand made.Benleys, Rollers etc might come out cheaper if produced here.
I am glad you know why rollers and bentley's are expensive.The Fact: Manual Labour is exploited in India.


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Originally Posted by aravindwarrier View Post
Now how better i can conclude this other than with a JAI HIND ?
Jai Hind. You post made a nice read but was full of ignorance.
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Old 29th April 2008, 08:43   #70
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Originally Posted by khanak View Post
Everyone is busy complaining about how expensive a 3 Series or an Accord is in India. How important is that to 99% of the country?
Agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by khanak View Post
Compare the cost of living abroad and in India. I pay $2.75 each way to use the bus in Toronto. BEST has never made me pay for than Rs. 14. Look at the cost of vegetables, of oil, of things that 99% of India really wants and needs. I live fairly close to the airport and pay $40 for a cab to my home. Same thing in Mumbai isn't more than Rs. 250 ever. I pay 300 to get my car washed everyday by hand. I believe a single carwash in Toronto is around $10.
The basis of comparison is flawed. You earn in dollars and you spend in dollars.... Simple! Now if Indian government wants us to believe that we are paying less for everything we get compared to the developed world... please pay us in dollars and we will spend the same for commodities as well. On second thoughts... how many times do you need to get your car washed in toronto as compared to India? I am sure it will work out cheaper in toronto still. :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by khanak View Post
Also, its not just about Tata and Mahindra but most industries in India that have really profited from protectionism. Do you think Big Bazaar or for that matter your local grocery store would be anywhere if it had to compete with Walmart from Day 1? Today Big Bazaar is in a position to compete with Walmart in India and thats what it is doing. Its not just these few companies here and there but almost every one of us that was into business in before the economy opened up was given a chance to prosper and develop ourselves during this period.
Protecting the domestic industy is fair enough but for how long and for what? Whats the point of a domestic industry which still gives us inferiors products at cost far greater than foreign products which are infinitely better overall.... will the cosumer right be ever taken care off? This is exactly why we have concentrated wealth and nowhere else in the world do we have such huge disparity in social status and incomes.

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Old 29th April 2008, 08:56   #71
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Arrvind Warrior Sir,
I am really sorry for going off topic. I am really sorry for that.

But read your post. What effort have you made to talk about the policy?
Theory and practicals are different. Theorotically our Microprocessors would have been doing 9GHZ but in practical, there are limitaitons. About facts and figures you have given, well I dont think they came to each and everyone and ask their purchase power. I know its impossible, but these people take samples and then figure out the whole picture with theory.

Although I am still in college, please do visit me when you come to Vadodara. I will give you living proof of my facts.

About the fuel lost. Well I have an extremely large tank. The thing is about others.

One more thing I must admit is that my presentaion is very poor, ( I lose marks in exam for this ) so my point is mis understood by you Arvind Saab.
And there are many others also. I am sorry you felt that way.

I really love my country thats why harsh words are coming from my keyboard. I have the opportunity to go abroad, but wont be going, but work in this country. Hopefully my dream of owning a car will be never materalized because of great policies. Hopefully, I will always go to vote becuse its my country, but will never get what I deserve.

And once again I am sorry for disturbing you Arvind Saab and others, but I dont deserve the right to present myself with poor presentation.
Sorry.
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Old 29th April 2008, 09:07   #72
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Protecting the domestic industy is fair enough but for how long and for what? Whats the point of a domestic industry which still gives us inferiors products at cost far greater than foreign products which are infinitely better overall.... will the cosumer right be ever taken care of? This is exactly why we have concentrated wealth and nowhere else in the world do we have such huge disparity in social status and incomes.

Request to mods: Please dont close this thread.
Thank you. Closing threads which are platforms for healthy discussions do no one any good. We can't agree so close the thread? What rubbish. I don't have a problem with the poor (apparently 99% of the country) getting what they are entitled to. They most definitely should. But I doubt if anyone of us, working hard and earning money should be deprived of his right to quality and choice in the manner (for the last time, in the Automobile market) that we are being subjected to as of today. I don't remember any of us saying stop the Rs.2/kg of rice and give me my Beemer at 15 lakhs instead. Yet again, unrelated issues being dragged into the equation. The patriots may continue. We are open to discussion here.

@aravindwarrier : I agree with some of your statements aravindwarrier. But not all of them. And a humble suggestion, don't take it personally. Leave the sarcastic one-liners of rebuttle out of your posts. It will do a world of good to the other significant and relevant points you are trying to make.

@jesal : Relax brother. Dont let your better judgements get clouded by the pricing of a car in our country. If the British had still been ruling, we would have been chauffeurs at best, not drivers of our own destiny. You're totally losing the point here by making such statements.

Last edited by FlyingSpur : 29th April 2008 at 09:16.
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Old 29th April 2008, 09:17   #73
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I went through all the posts so far and am happy to see that there is genuine concern for this country and its future. Good work out guys! I see that some are agreeing that India is progressing and some disagreeing to that. I feel that in fact both are correct in a way that is why the argument goes on..
We have progressed only a little in terms of basic human development indices's like good potable water, food, sanitation, poverty level, general education, health care and accessibility of connectivity of villages to end consumer markets (cities) which is the point of argument of those arguing the bad state of our country. But when it comes to electronics and facilities in cities we have gone by leaps and bounds in terms of connectivity through telephone, mass transport, educational institutions, consumer goods, shopping malls, jobs, relatively better infrastructure, etc which is the point of those arguing of the good state of our country.
Let me tell you what I feel- the first progress is a more meaningful measure of our progress vis-a-vis the developing countries and the latter more of a India shining propaganda. There has been progress in both angles but a minuscule where it really matters to our masses. So who is the culprit? We are, everybody is. Our political system is a immature in terms of governance of a republic in the 21st century but don't doubt, they are Machiavellian in their motivation to safeguard their turf. The people in general are just plain lazy and chauvinistic and morally corrupt in their ideals, so it is a positive feed back loop. The people of a country will always get the government they deserve, so nobody is to blame. Now lets go have beer. cheers:
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Old 29th April 2008, 09:30   #74
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Originally Posted by aravindwarrier View Post
We the privilleged. We the educated, who work for foreign multinationals for fatten their coffers with the money saved by employing us for a pittance. We the sophisticated, who can spend RS 2500 for 750 ml high energy fuel for our souls.We the liberated who are the first ones to jump at an opportunity to go ONSHORE.
So? Whats the point. Do a govt job and get 1/4th the money? ITs a free market. Everybody will work where there is a better salary/standard of living.
Your entire arguments was more or less sane, except for such irrelevant bits.

Quote:
Agreed. But does it serve any purpose in discussing such thing, other than the fact that it brings out the ignorance in the minds of the noveau riche in the forum?This petty bourgeousie attitude where anybody who is poorer than you is untouchable and any body richer is corrupt, do not suit this forum.I dont have any point to prove here as I also agree that cars are overpriced here. But then blaming and accusing any and evry except the self under the indian sun also do not prove any purpose.So does half cooked/uncooked knowledge about ones own country and resorting to compare it to others basis this.

Now how better i can conclude this other than with a JAI HIND ?
JAI HIND India is a great country. Anybody criticizing India is bad. Its the best country in the whole world.
Thats the tune we should sing right?
Well thats the reason why most of India sits in the dark ages. If you compare this country to others, or say how others have a better life, you are a traitor, or a noveau rich who does not understand ground realities, or plain ignorant.
And why should I blame myself. I contribute enough to this country, and take back very little.
MY compatriots in other countries take back much more in terms of healthcare roads infrastructure etc.,
I pay money to this country in terms of taxes, direct and indirect.
That GPRS you talk about, well I pay for that too, and pay service tax on my bill.
The mobile I bought had taxes attached to the bill.
The car I own as 10% tax paid.
The salary I earn I pay tax on that too,
What am I getting in return. All this 2kg rice thingy is okay, and makes good arguments at PAGE 3 parties, and all this talk about "Anybody Poor is untouchable blah blah" is good to embaress the middle class, but in the end it comes down to the very basics for me.
I pay money, what do I get in return.
JAI HIND will not refund the 1500rs I spent on my washing machine because the voltage spiked to 300V.
And before you tell me "Look you have a washing machine which 90% of India does not", I would like to tell you "Sorry, not my fault".

Last edited by tsk1979 : 29th April 2008 at 09:32.
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Old 29th April 2008, 09:39   #75
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Originally Posted by zaks View Post
Let me tell you what I feel- the first progress is a more meaningful measure of our progress vis-a-vis the developing countries and the latter more of a India shining propaganda. There has been progress in both angles but a minuscule where it really matters to our masses. So who is the culprit? We are, everybody is. Our political system is a immature in terms of governance of a republic in the 21st century but don't doubt, they are Machiavellian in their motivation to safeguard their turf. The people in general are just plain lazy and chauvinistic and morally corrupt in their ideals, so it is a positive feed back loop. The people of a country will always get the government they deserve, so nobody is to blame. Now lets go have beer. cheers:
Brilliantly put Zaks!
We are a minority in our own country.

Last edited by extreme_torque : 29th April 2008 at 09:41.
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