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Old 1st May 2008, 14:17   #16
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I think Sx4 has EBD.
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Old 1st May 2008, 14:19   #17
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Originally Posted by adityamunshi View Post
I think Sx4 has EBD.
SX4 do have ABS along with EBD.
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Old 1st May 2008, 14:46   #18
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ESP (Electronic Stability Program) is more comprehensive, and far more intelligent, than traction control. Traction control was originally developed only to assist in traction while accelerating, but was later extended to grip in cornering too. ESP systems even have steering angle sensors for info on which direction the driver wants to go to!!

EBD is different.....it only applies different levels of braking to each wheel, when the car is braking, to minimise stopping distance.
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Old 1st May 2008, 14:47   #19
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ABS + EBD is some what effective in direction control of the car but only useful when you apply brakes. More over ABS cannot detect lateral movement of the car, you have to turn the steering to make it possible. At panic situations, remembering all that is very difficult.

ESP, a dream in Indian cars, like all the safety features, this will be available only in 20lakh plus cars. But work much better with earlier intruption and avoiding panic. But gives a false sense of security to the driver.

ESP will save over 20,000 lives in India every year if our trucks are equiped with one, that will be cheaper considering that most of our trucks use air brakes. This number will appear bigger if we consider the losses in money and commodities in many trucks just tipping over every day.
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Old 2nd May 2008, 00:56   #20
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Does the octavia vRs have this feature?
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Old 2nd May 2008, 08:23   #21
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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
driven an elantra. when you get wheelspin the tcs comes on. driven an audi a6. when you get wheelspin the esp comes on. both are about the same.
ESP is maybe a little more advanced than TCS..

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Originally Posted by arunmur View Post
ABS + EBD is some what effective in direction control of the car but only useful when you apply brakes. More over ABS cannot detect lateral movement of the car, you have to turn the steering to make it possible. At panic situations, remembering all that is very difficult.

ESP, a dream in Indian cars, like all the safety features, this will be available only in 20lakh plus cars. But work much better with earlier intruption and avoiding panic. But gives a false sense of security to the driver.

ESP will save over 20,000 lives in India every year if our trucks are equiped with one, that will be cheaper considering that most of our trucks use air brakes. This number will appear bigger if we consider the losses in money and commodities in many trucks just tipping over every day.
Agreed..we need to have it on heavy vehicles..More than ESP..they need EBD that cannot be disconnected easily by local mechanics.
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Old 2nd May 2008, 08:53   #22
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Originally Posted by arunmur View Post
ABS + EBD is some what effective in direction control of the car but only useful when you apply brakes. More over ABS cannot detect lateral movement of the car, you have to turn the steering to make it possible. At panic situations, remembering all that is very difficult.

ESP, a dream in Indian cars, like all the safety features, this will be available only in 20lakh plus cars. But work much better with earlier intruption and avoiding panic. But gives a false sense of security to the driver.


ESP will save over 20,000 lives in India every year if our trucks are equiped with one, that will be cheaper considering that most of our trucks use air brakes. This number will appear bigger if we consider the losses in money and commodities in many trucks just tipping over every day.
It should be applicable for the newbies and unexperienced drivers too in thier cars. Especially for the teenage drivers. I had read about an accident by a teen for verna. He was not able to control the power and rammed the car. One of them, car slipped off the road. another one of the swift, which rammed inside a truck all died. If such featured would had been there in swift like ABS, ESP, TCS etc. etc. they could had steered the car in control and would had been saved. Recently an accident occured in gurgaon, M800 rammed into a bus. Bus applied brakes and M800 brakes on expressway gurgaon are Wow! it couldnt stopped and rammed into the bus.
These were few examples in which lives could had been saved because of such features. But our Indian Janta don't wanna spend money on quality security features.
In this case dealers have a major role too missguiding indian janta, when i had been to DD Motors, Maruti Suzuki Dealer for the test ride of Dzire. He asked me which car you wanna buy, i said SX4, DZire or Verna D. He told me Drive a DZire and you will forget Verna. Verna is too slow and bla bla Safety features is not there in Verna. DZire have safety features like that of a D Segment Car. I asked what kinda features he said first of all Build Quality then ABS, Immobilizer. I asked him what immobilizer will do on the time of emergency brakes. He got no ans. then i asked him what type of D segment security features? he said immobilizer. They are simply missguiding the Indian Janta.

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Originally Posted by abhinav.gupta88 View Post
Does the octavia vRs have this feature?
Na, I don't think so. But Sonata Embera have.

Last edited by Gangsta : 2nd May 2008 at 09:03.
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Old 2nd May 2008, 08:57   #23
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Ok, its good to have and will surely help in emergency. What next?
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My Point is ESP (Electronic Stability Program) should be there in Indian Cars too? For teen agers and newbie car drivers.
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Old 2nd May 2008, 09:01   #24
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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Ok, its good to have and will surely help in emergency. What next?
Then we can finish our journey if we or our car will save due to this feature.
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Old 2nd May 2008, 09:11   #25
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In effect, ESP/ESC = (ABS + TCS)

EBD isn't the same as ESP/ESC.

Edit: ESP/ESC is to be read as ESP or ESC, and not their ratio...

Last edited by five46 : 2nd May 2008 at 09:12.
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Old 3rd May 2008, 21:04   #26
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Default Its all about the genuis behind the wheel.

All the adavnced features will really help, no doubt about that, but then thing again. The basic cause of most road accidents is the person who is behind the wheel, wheather you believe it or not.

Suppose New Honda City ( NHC ) VTEC is bought by a person. He takes it to some twisted roads on the highway. He keeps his speed at 180kmph and attempts sharp right angle turn. No wonder the car will be killed along with the passengers and ofcourse, the genius behind the wheel.

The point is clear. If we had these features like TCS and ESP fitted on each and every car from Nano to the highest end, then the number of accidents will only increase because these features gives a sense of security to the driver and in our country, we have a large number of drivers with inexperience and negligence. So instead of something happening positive, just negative thing will happen.

Someone commented on these being fitted onto trucks ( in India, most of the busses are also trucks ) and busses. Well they already have good braking equipment, but here its the matter of maintainence. The owners of the trucks dont do regular maintainence + overload the trucks to insane levels. This causes the brakes to fail or underperform. This, apart from the genius passed out by professors at RTO, at the wheel of trucks ( busses also ) leads to accidents.
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Old 4th May 2008, 13:47   #27
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
All the adavnced features will really help, no doubt about that, but then thing again. The basic cause of most road accidents is the person who is behind the wheel, wheather you believe it or not.

Suppose New Honda City ( NHC ) VTEC is bought by a person. He takes it to some twisted roads on the highway. He keeps his speed at 180kmph and attempts sharp right angle turn. No wonder the car will be killed along with the passengers and ofcourse, the genius behind the wheel.

The point is clear. If we had these features like TCS and ESP fitted on each and every car from Nano to the highest end, then the number of accidents will only increase because these features gives a sense of security to the driver and in our country, we have a large number of drivers with inexperience and negligence. So instead of something happening positive, just negative thing will happen.

Someone commented on these being fitted onto trucks ( in India, most of the busses are also trucks ) and busses. Well they already have good braking equipment, but here its the matter of maintainence. The owners of the trucks dont do regular maintainence + overload the trucks to insane levels. This causes the brakes to fail or underperform. This, apart from the genius passed out by professors at RTO, at the wheel of trucks ( busses also ) leads to accidents.
you have a good point.

but,

Which one do you prefer? Car with ABS or without ABS?
ABS can save your life, by taking emergency turns while applying emergency brakes but abt a non ABS car? Zoom straight headon.

Which one you will drive? Car with good tyres or car with bald tyres?

As you said "these features gives a sense of security to the driver and in our country"

These features also avoid accidents and its not just human. Take the best car in this world ram it into a wall. Features wont do anything.

One should know the limitations of the car and limitation of such features and proper use of such features.

Last edited by Gangsta : 4th May 2008 at 13:48.
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Old 4th May 2008, 17:04   #28
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-ESP/ABS/EBD do not compensate for bad braking equipment.

-Buses and trucks seem to stop quicker because the driver is probably able to see much more than you sitting, higher than you. Moreover most busses/trucks never have brake lights making driving at fast pas behind tham very dangerous, you will need a lot more room to realize that he has stopped and then apply brakes.

All these technologies help in two ways, the help learners to cope up with the regulars and help all in unforseen cirumstances. While we see a lot of the first set, many teenagers taking to driving like its a video game, there are also quite a few who thinks driving at slower and safer pace is a rude way of wasting their own money. The second one is actually more common in India.

Our roads are known to be amazing, we could have kms of smooth stretch suddenly followed by a pit that potentially destroys your control if you go over it, only solution go around if there is no vehicle ahead on the other side or come to a stop if there is another vehicle on the other side. Both are quite possible only if we see the pothole far ahead. Thats why trucks seem to fare better, they sit high and are dfinitely able to see the potholes much before you would see it driving a Honda Civic. But, what if the pot hole is after a blind curve. God may save you, most of these potholes will uproot some sand under it and it will be around the road, sand on road is quite common on our highways. If you have a car and will probably be cruising at 80-100kmph without realizing what is comming ahead, you have definitely lost the go around or stop option if there are not ABS/EBD/ESP. To make it worst a bus is trying to overtake a lorry just after the pothole. You are not incharge of all these situations. The best you can do is get these gizmos and hope that they work(definitely better than not having it and counting your driving skill). Going at 40kmph on such highways are also dangerous as other people will be travelling at 80(you don't want to be hit from behind by a sumo) and they can get quite lucky.

Adding to this our tropical weather conditions we have a very mixed weather. So, since we do not control all the situations we drive in we cannot say i will drive slow and make the day for me, without the gizmos.
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Old 4th May 2008, 17:11   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gangsta View Post
you have a good point.

but,

Which one do you prefer? Car with ABS or without ABS?
ABS can save your life, by taking emergency turns while applying emergency brakes but abt a non ABS car? Zoom straight headon.

Which one you will drive? Car with good tyres or car with bald tyres?

As you said "these features gives a sense of security to the driver and in our country"

These features also avoid accidents and its not just human. Take the best car in this world ram it into a wall. Features wont do anything.

One should know the limitations of the car and limitation of such features and proper use of such features.

Sorry for being offtopic, but this is what we were involved in.
We already had a nasty crash in our Baleno. The accent's tail lamp were not working and the car was ahead of us. That car was carrying some Swaminarayan supremo. My dad was driving a car wearing a seatbelt. My maternal uncle ( mother's brother ) was not wearing one. When the Baleno went into the Accent the speed was around 40kmph. My uncle's head went straight into windsheild and gifted him 8 stiches on head. There was one spot of crack on the entire front windsheild.

Because it was their tail light not working + contacts, there were not many arguments and no money give or take.
The photographs ( taken by a journalist at the site of accident ) are in my backup dvd. Will post them later sometime.
So we already knew how important is ABS.

Read carefully here, I am talking about TCS ( Traction Control System ) and ESP ( Electronic Stability Programme ) being relatively not of much use in India. ABS is a must, but also mind that ABS actually increases braking distance in wet and sandy road and also on dirt road ( and we have these kind of road everywhere in India ). However this does not mean that ABS is not important, well, it is one feature that should be made compulsory in all the cars is india and also on two wheelers ( we have that technology also ).
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Old 4th May 2008, 20:20   #30
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Sorry for being offtopic, but this is what we were involved in.
We already had a nasty crash in our Baleno. The accent's tail lamp were not working and the car was ahead of us. That car was carrying some Swaminarayan supremo. My dad was driving a car wearing a seatbelt. My maternal uncle ( mother's brother ) was not wearing one. When the Baleno went into the Accent the speed was around 40kmph. My uncle's head went straight into windsheild and gifted him 8 stiches on head. There was one spot of crack on the entire front windsheild.

Because it was their tail light not working + contacts, there were not many arguments and no money give or take.
The photographs ( taken by a journalist at the site of accident ) are in my backup dvd. Will post them later sometime.
So we already knew how important is ABS.

Read carefully here, I am talking about TCS ( Traction Control System ) and ESP ( Electronic Stability Programme ) being relatively not of much use in India. ABS is a must, but also mind that ABS actually increases braking distance in wet and sandy road and also on dirt road ( and we have these kind of road everywhere in India ). However this does not mean that ABS is not important, well, it is one feature that should be made compulsory in all the cars is india and also on two wheelers ( we have that technology also ).
Sorry for the accident mate. ABS do increase braking distance in wet and sandy roads but you can steer the car if you have ABS. I remember my wagon R was abt to hit a van on lodhi road. Few weeks back there was patch on that lodhi road in delhi a good 2 mtr patch road had been pilled off and all the sediments were in the area 1 mtr by 2 mtr and there were 3-4 patches were there. A Maruti Van Guy idiot applied brakes his car got skid and was abt to loose balance and nobody was there infront of him still that fool applied brakes. Me too try to stop my car but thankfully and i don't know how my wagon R hadnt hit the van just because i applied brakes on that thick sandy patch and almost lost the control and after 3-4 days same thing happened when i was there in my Accent. But i was confident abt the ABS So i increased the speed and as soon i increased the speed a biker was abt to loose control on the same patch. Thank God, I applied Emergency Brakes and steered my car with full control to the left.
Thats the difference.
But yes, Accidents occurs due to other's mistakes too. But Its all abt increasing safety limitations in a car.
I really don't know how many times ABS really saved my car.
Last night only ABS saved me from an accident as the idiot truck driver took his truck infront of me suddenly. I had written abt it on Expressway to Hell thread.
Best results comes when all of them compliments each other, i really love my elantra for this.
ABS + EBD + TCS + BAS + All Wheel Disc Very Very useful on highway driving.

ESP will help in handling the car in emergency situations.

Last edited by Gangsta : 4th May 2008 at 20:22.
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