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Old 18th February 2009, 09:41   #31
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So when is the best temp / time/scenario at which petrol or diesel should be purchased as we enter to pump any time without knowing that we are loosing even we are making sure meter is 0.00
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Old 18th February 2009, 09:43   #32
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Two points.

Density of petrol changes quite a bit with temperature.This is the reason that aircraft take on fuel by weight and not volume.

Too dense petrol may have its own problems. remember the problems with Zen fuel pumps which failed quite regularly in Karnataka and it was finally traced to fuel (from Mangalore?) having too high a density!
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Old 18th February 2009, 09:54   #33
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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Density of petrol changes quite a bit with temperature.This is the reason that aircraft take on fuel by weight and not volume.
Indeed. Ships also take on fuel by weight. Always designated in metric tonnes, mT.

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Too dense petrol may have its own problems. remember the problems with Zen fuel pumps which failed quite regularly in Karnataka and it was finally traced to fuel (from Mangalore?) having too high a density!
Sir, this sounds a bit far fetched. How much could the density have increased? There are Zens running in the mountains with sub zero temperatures (as dense as petrol can get) and such problems have not cropped up.
Maybe you are talking about a 'defective' batch of petrol?
Maybe the reason was not the density but something else?
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Old 18th February 2009, 10:00   #34
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Sir, this sounds a bit far fetched. How much could the density have increased? There are Zens running in the mountains with sub zero temperatures (as dense as petrol can get) and such problems have not cropped up.
Maybe you are talking about a 'defective' batch of petrol?
Maybe the reason was not the density but something else?
I agree that it was something ''fishy' in the petrol. But all news reports mentioned the SG. this could have been the symptom rather than the disease!
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Old 18th February 2009, 10:36   #35
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sumit Bhatti View Post
....STA is conveniently not followed for sales to the final two links in this chain: The Petrol Dealer and The Customer/ Consumer
Even though I am familiar enough with STA, this is shocking!

This is a case that is RIPE for a PIL to be filed! Why hasn't anybody done it already?
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Old 20th February 2009, 02:21   #36
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Cool STA in India:

Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Indeed. Ships also take on fuel by weight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Two points.
Aircraft take on fuel by weight and not volume.
True, sale to the government (the largest consumer) itself, i.e., Defence, Railways, Aircraft and Shipping is all Temperature Corrected to 15 degrees C. Also ATF tank trucks have flow meters in-built on the chassis to achieve this. Commercial Aviation and Shipping also avail of this benefit right here in India.
But not to the Common Man. What an achievement in 60 years of Independence.
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Old 20th February 2009, 02:39   #37
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Cool That MRPL Fuel?

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Two points.
Remember the problems with Zen fuel pumps which failed quite regularly in Karnataka and it was finally traced to fuel (from Mangalore?) having too high a density!
Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Indeed. There are Zens running in the mountains with sub zero temperatures....
Maybe you are talking about a 'defective' batch of petrol?
Maybe the reason was not the density but something else?
In Canada, average purchase temperature is sub-zero at minus (-) 6 degrees C. Hence STA was adopted for retail sale by law since the 1970's!
40 years later in India (where the average fuel purchase temperatures are much further away from the standard 15 degrees C) STA doesn't exist for retail sale even though the equipment is in place.

When Dealers and Customers complained, the explanation offered was that the particular MRPL fuel was derived from a Russian Crude that was high in aromatic content. Remember the stink from that fuel? I know of a pump attendant who opened the dome of a petrol tanker and got an epileptic fit !

Please refer to an explanation in the thread ' bandra pumps unreliable, need alternatives' which was about ethanol blended fuel.
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Old 20th February 2009, 08:10   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Sumit Bhatti View Post
When Dealers and Customers complained, the explanation offered was that the particular MRPL fuel was derived from a Russian Crude that was high in aromatic content. Remember the stink from that fuel? I know of a pump attendant who opened the dome of a petrol tanker and got an epileptic fit !
LOL, so we must pay more for the wonderfully intoxicating 'aroma'??!

Honest citizens will never find redressal in this great nation without resorting to litigation!
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Old 21st February 2009, 04:08   #39
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Cool That MRPL Fuel?

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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
LOL, so we must pay more for the wonderfully intoxicating 'aroma'??!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Two points.
remember the problems with Zen fuel pumps which failed quite regularly in Karnataka and it was finally traced to fuel (from Mangalore?) having too high a density!
Both of you, Sir, are right:
That MRPL fuel had really high density. It was as almost close to diesel
Also,
When a Oil Company mixes fuel, it's called 'upgrading' or 'downgrading' fuel.
When a Petrol Dealer mixes fuel, it's called 'adulteration'.
There's really no difference between the two
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Old 22nd February 2009, 12:43   #40
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Interesting thread. I want to know how any of us can be sure that the read-outs on those screens have not just been punched-in by some guy with a keyboard?
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Old 22nd February 2009, 13:57   #41
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I want to know how any of us can be sure that the read-outs on those screens have not just been punched-in by some guy with a keyboard?
Theoretically possible!
Maybe it is even happening at some places! Who knows?
Please be alert and focus well on the job of receiving fuel for your car! Never take your eyes away from the display and try to receive at a slow pace.

After all, what else can we do?!
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Old 23rd February 2009, 13:48   #42
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Default Just wanted to share a bit

Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Theoretically possible!
Maybe it is even happening at some places! Who knows?
Please be alert and focus well on the job of receiving fuel for your car! Never take your eyes away from the display and try to receive at a slow pace.
Very rightly said Anup ji

There are 3 stages of speed, one should always opt for a lower speed.

In slow mode you should be pumping at low speed, thereby minimizing the vapours that are created , while you are pumping fuel. All hoses at the pump have a vapour return system, if you are pumping on the fast rate some of the liquid that goes to your tank becomes vapour. These vapours are being sucked back into the ground storage tank, so you are getting less worth for your money.

Last edited by Bubby : 23rd February 2009 at 13:57.
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Old 24th February 2009, 04:30   #43
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Cool Ideal speed to fill up fuel.

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Originally Posted by Bubby View Post
There are 3 stages of speed, one should always opt for a lower speed.
"As per the Standards of Weights and Measures (General) Rules, 1987, for verification / inspection of dispensing pumps of retail outlet of Petrol Pumps. Some of the important procedures, as detailed in the Standards of Weights and Measures (General) Rules, 1987 Schedule VIII Part I:

TESTING OF DISPENSING PUMPS

(A) Dispensing pumps shall be tested under practical working conditions with the liquid that the instrument is intended to deliver, with the help of check measures of appropriate denominations.

(E) Every dispensing pump should deliver correctly at reasonable uniform speed, which shall be not less than 10 liters per minute."


So the ideal dispensing rate for checking accuracy is about 30 seconds for filling a (stamped) 5 liter can. Max permissible variation is +/- 15ml.

Hence this is the ideal speed to fill up fuel.
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Old 30th May 2010, 09:54   #44
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Default Fuel Density in Pumps not working: Could this be a SCAM!!

Off late i have noticed that almost all fuel pumps in my city either do not display the fuel density or else the light for "density out of range" is turned on.

Due to this reason i have been refuelling from a Company Owned Company Operated BP pump which is close to 15km away from my home. They used to show a density of around 800-850 ll last month. But during my last two fills i find that the density meter here too shows 999.9. Today i asked the pump attendant why it was showing so high and he just gave me a smile and said it might be that much.

Could you guys please keep an eye at the pumps you are refuelling from. Could this be a SCAM? I mean could they be manipulating something so that they make profits?
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Old 30th May 2010, 10:37   #45
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Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
Off late i have noticed that almost all fuel pumps in my city either do not display the fuel density or else the light for "density out of range" is turned on.

Due to this reason i have been refuelling from a Company Owned Company Operated BP pump which is close to 15km away from my home. They used to show a density of around 800-850 ll last month. But during my last two fills i find that the density meter here too shows 999.9. Today i asked the pump attendant why it was showing so high and he just gave me a smile and said it might be that much.

Could you guys please keep an eye at the pumps you are refuelling from. Could this be a SCAM? I mean could they be manipulating something so that they make profits?

Do you all check the fuel density while refuelling.I for one haven't even known that such a tab exists on the pumps display.All I do is settle my eyes on the market price of diesel and ensure that the attendent resets the litres tab to zero before starting off.

.How does the fuel density tab help? I mean if its less, does that means the quality of fuel is bad or what?
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