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Old 23rd December 2008, 13:45   #106
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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
I disagree dost. It does not matter if it is white or black people making things (especially cars) in Europe but there is a huge difference in quality. made in India is still mostly cheap and low-end (e.g. Maruti, Hyundai etc).
Quality is also fitness for use do you want a 5 Lac car whose spares are priced sky high or you want a 4 lac for which spares are cheap . Please undersatnd Europe and US started making cars 110 yrs. back while thans to licence / permit raj India entered this segment 10 yrs back only ( India concieved ) with Indica. A lot of crucial skills like design / quality are still evolving . An yes we can do a Nano which has fascinated the world ( Trust me I work for a Jap company ) and they are more eagerly waiting for Nano than us . BTW Europe Car Industry is mostly now a German / Italian thingy with JLR going to Tata & Volvo up for grabs .
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Old 23rd December 2008, 14:03   #107
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Originally Posted by amit27 View Post
Quality is also fitness for use do you want a 5 Lac car whose spares are priced sky high or you want a 4 lac for which spares are cheap . Please undersatnd Europe and US started making cars 110 yrs. back while thans to licence / permit raj India entered this segment 10 yrs back only ( India concieved ) with Indica. A lot of crucial skills like design / quality are still evolving . An yes we can do a Nano which has fascinated the world ( Trust me I work for a Jap company ) and they are more eagerly waiting for Nano than us . BTW Europe Car Industry is mostly now a German / Italian thingy with JLR going to Tata & Volvo up for grabs .
Alright. East or West India is the best!!! Lets not try to hijack this thread with desi-videsi discussion.
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Old 23rd December 2008, 14:51   #108
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If you pay cheap, you get cheap. If Indian laborers are paid equialant to their European counterparts and have access to the same facilities, we are more than capable of producing high quality products. The problem is that most of these companies want to increase their bottom line by using cheap labor and not making state of the art facilities.
So everyone's gotten their answer about why the fabia is expensive, it is made by people who take a larger salary and hence made well.

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Originally Posted by ajnagpur View Post
Sorry Bhai. I dont think so.

Ask Pranav. He has got both Fabia & Swift.
Yes, I have both the cars,
Swift Vdi: 17000 km, 15 months = 7 trips to the service stn in total (for regular service and a few for rattling of the entire thing)
Fabia Tdi Eleg: 14300 km, 8 months = 2 trips to the service stn in total (For service and a dent)

I have nearly stopped using the swift now, with the fabia that can do everything better, and me not having to worry about it skidding out or not braking well. besides everyone is happier in the Fabia with no one complaining about backaches having his/her knees stuck or anything like that.

About the mirror: Yes that did happen and the mirror stayed put, my GF was driving the swift and a truck did that again and the outer cover fell off and shattered, thats not what you call top-quality.

Lets not get into detailed calculations here, but on an average, they both cost the same to maintain, mileage is the same and consumables are more for the fabia, but it needs them at longer intervals. That being said, the swift is still costlier than other smaller marutis and the Fabia is too new for me to gauge about how much it might cost overall.

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Originally Posted by ac 427 View Post
Being Expensive is one thing, being arrogant is another.
That's how the whole of europe is, try living there for a while, its just that they're here and they aren't used to pampering thier customers so thats how they are. They have to learn sometime, and they hopefully will.

For all Cynics. Please drive the Fabia, but with an open mind. you will love it.
I know that I have been converted from a Swift-guy to a Fabia-guy since I got it, but I didn't like the fact that it was so expensive or that it was so noisy, they arranged a second TD for me, and this time I kept my mind open, I did not drive it like the swift, and everything just fell into place ! In the hope that I would get a better car for the price I went looking at every other car and nothing impressed me, I even opened the door of the Fiesta and closed it in the showroom, after which I left the place, because the door didn't feel anywhere as nice as this one. My dad had to sit with me and tell me this is the best you can buy, don't look at anything else.

Last edited by naikpranav : 23rd December 2008 at 14:55.
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Old 23rd December 2008, 15:36   #109
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The story about his mirror can be true. Fabia mirrors are steel - not plastic.
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Old 23rd December 2008, 18:02   #110
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Post Quality concerns.

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Originally Posted by amit27 View Post
There is a cooment on top of page saying that Skoda is expensive as all parts are imported and are good quality . I am sure after 60 years of independence we should get rid of this metality that all things made by white people are of high quality . Yes German cars MB, BMW , VW are good quality but is so Hyundai/ GM cars which are made in India
Hi Amit,

I doubt that the individual that commented about imported parts inside of the Fabia must not have put that in a condescending context. I have checked the Fabia too and I'm also considering it for my next car. A lot of parts inisde of it are actually from VW and Audi. I think a comment would have been made that since these parts are from German, the parts are costly.

I certainly don't think that only good made abroad are of good quality and that the ones made in India are cheap. The problem with the quality in India is, companies have a 'chalta hai' attitude. They think and know that Indians will lap up anything; from M800 to a Merc Maybach.

But having said that, if India can get rid of corruption and when car and automotive component manufacturers are given fair practices for trade without having to shell out crores under the table for approvals and sanctions, surely they could invest all those monies in making better vehicles and we can start to see much better quality components inside of the vehicles we purchase here... Waiting for that day too.

Cheers.. aK
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Old 23rd December 2008, 18:25   #111
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Post Sorry. Disagree.

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Originally Posted by ac 427 View Post
The swift is as good as quality as the Fabia is. Another thing, the swift beat the fabia in customer appeal. A research done by JD power.
AC, I'd agree with everything else you've got to say, but this.. Swift does not and cannot dream of being in the league of Fabia. I say this with an unbiased pov.

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Originally Posted by ac 427 View Post
hmmm that might be one persons pov, find attached the link in which it is proven that more customers have the 'aha' factor when they buy the swift and not the Fabia.

2008 India APEAL Study | J.D. Power and Associates
So you've said it yourself. Like you have a POV [that swift is as good as fabia] the individual who claimed german stuff is better than Indian stuff, since its cheap, was his pov, which is what a few of us are pouncing upon. Why?

Certainly there is a gap between what JD Power publishes and the reality here. I don't think everyone in this forum will go with what JDP publishes. It's funny that some would do a 'aha' on swift and would then go blind on seeing a Fabia..

cheers.. ak
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Old 23rd December 2008, 23:14   #112
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Although I dont believe in the customer surveys much, if Swift defeated Fabia in customer survey, then it is because Swift satisfies Indian customer.

India is a very unique market with different mentality, situation and needs. It is not Europe where the manufacturers can do with a product because the market itself is large. India is a different case. Here even today owning and running a car is a big thing for a middle class person. So we do consider value rather than just asking price. Fabia has its own positive points, but for those famalies who were used to travelling in M800 or Omni, Swift is luxury at a good price. Moreover, it has also got good performance for its price and FE also. Fabia is on the luxury side, but in India, almost everything that is necessacity in developed countries, is considered luxury in India. Car is one of those.

A few rattles here or there wont matter much for a person who has upgraded from a two wheeler or M800/Omni. Luxury is still not a thing that people can afford today. Fabia is aiming that and hence failed. It is a good car for a person who already has two luxury car parked and want a " small " car for city.

And reagarding the concept of pay cheap and get cheap, I dont agree. Its nothing but value that drives. Pay less and get a product that does 85% of what a car almost double the cost does and you have a success story.

In Europe they do have better A.S & S. than what Skoda is offering in India. I think this also makes a huge difference. Considering the Indian driving conditions and roads, more wear and tear is going to be there. So why cant we have right to better A.S & S. ?

In its own, Fabia is a nice machine, but in comparison to Swift, it is just too overpriced and too underperforming. Take the diesel on expresshighway with 4 adults and try overtaking a fast moving Wagon R driven by a serious high speed driver. Do the same in Swift and you will realize what I mean. For the asking price, we deserve better.
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Old 23rd December 2008, 23:30   #113
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aaggoswami,
Guess thats one fab post. Takes care of both sides of the coin. Extremely well put!
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Old 24th December 2008, 01:54   #114
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Originally Posted by k_ajay View Post
I certainly don't think that only good made abroad are of good quality and that the ones made in India are cheap. The problem with the quality in India is, companies have a 'chalta hai' attitude. They think and know that Indians will lap up anything; from M800 to a Merc Maybach.

Cheers.. aK
On longer, it is "chalta hai" attitude. With competition on the rise, the attitude is decreasing exponentially. In fact the attitude of bigger brands had been "chalta hai" till recently. Look how MB is transforming themselves when they are beaten by BMW here. Bloody they didnt even offer clear lamps (they did have it in other markets). Hyundai was ahead of them in offering it in the santro. How many problems have been reported of MBs, BMWs, Skodas VWs failing on the mechanical ( I dare not open the electrical failures) front. Faulty ACs, fuels pumps, etc. How many cars in the sub 5 lak bracket have had these issues in spite of being mass produced with much cheaper parts.

I refuse to accept that poor roads, bad fuel, polluted environment were the contributors to this. Even if these are the factors, then was enough testing done before launching the products here. They came with "chalta hai" attitude that people will still buy it.

If other brands can run as well even by skipping a service for a couple of thousand kms, I except the better brands to work just as well.

Coming to the Fabia, the reason it is expensive is not just coz of better parts, its more (75%) related to the parts not being localized which it eventually will in the coming times.
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Old 24th December 2008, 09:25   #115
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I think there is mutual consent in this forum. Everyone i guess is speaking the same. What I mean't was when compared to the Octi, Laura and the Superb, the Fabia has failed the customer in many ways. And i guess its showing in the sales figures too.
But NaikPranav prooves a point, that the customer wants and is willing to pay more, if a decent offering comes his way.
How well will a Fabia hold against the polo ? or the GP ? (currently its loosing against the Palio )
and coming back to the main point of this forum, i still hold my point max 5 to 10 peices a month for a 11 lac fabia.

cheers,
AC
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Old 24th December 2008, 09:38   #116
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
A few rattles here or there wont matter much for a person who has upgraded from a two wheeler or M800/Omni. Luxury is still not a thing that people can afford today. Fabia is aiming that and hence failed. It is a good car for a person who already has two luxury car parked and want a " small " car for city.
Lovely post aaggoswami, but i just differ with you on one point.
The Fabia is a premium car agreed, but its main customer is the one who wants to buy the fiesta, the city. The ones you mentioned are a part of its audience but a very small one. I would prove my point by stating that the no of Nov sales of Luxury cars was 336, so fabia should have sold atleast 300 ?

the point is the main customers (the ones who would buy the city, fiesta, verna) have lost trust in the Fabia and that has lead to its downfall.

cheers,
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Old 24th December 2008, 20:35   #117
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Although I dont believe in the customer surveys much, if Swift defeated Fabia in customer survey, then it is because Swift satisfies Indian customer.
There are more swifts on the road, and have been there for a longer time, the fabia hasn't even been here a year, so which customer survey did you have to compare the two ?

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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
India is a very unique market with different mentality, situation and needs. It is not Europe where the manufacturers can do with a product because the market itself is large. India is a different case. Here even today owning and running a car is a big thing for a middle class person. So we do consider value rather than just asking price. Fabia has its own positive points, but for those famalies who were used to travelling in M800 or Omni, Swift is luxury at a good price. Moreover, it has also got good performance for its price and FE also. Fabia is on the luxury side, but in India, almost everything that is necessacity in developed countries, is considered luxury in India. Car is one of those.

A few rattles here or there wont matter much for a person who has upgraded from a two wheeler or M800/Omni. Luxury is still not a thing that people can afford today. Fabia is aiming that and hence failed. It is a good car for a person who already has two luxury car parked and want a " small " car for city.

And reagarding the concept of pay cheap and get cheap, I dont agree. Its nothing but value that drives. Pay less and get a product that does 85% of what a car almost double the cost does and you have a success story.

In Europe they do have better A.S & S. than what Skoda is offering in India. I think this also makes a huge difference. Considering the Indian driving conditions and roads, more wear and tear is going to be there. So why cant we have right to better A.S & S. ?
I was given a second hand 1992 M800 by my dad when i started driving properly, two years after I got a license, when he could afford to buy me a new ford ikon.
I bought a new Skoda Fabia when a Laura was affordable, but it was the usability and the fact that I need to park on small streets that chose what to buy. Everyone isn't drawn by money matters to a certain choice of car, I have many friends who own skodas for a very long time now, if driven well, they don't go to the workshop for anything, and cost almost the same to maintain, a fact that I am aware of, owning 2 Maruti cars and a Skoda right now. The Fabia may be expensive, but try to find out how much more is the Classic Fabia and the difference with a Swift Zxi, the difference isn't much for the same set of features and better build quality, Please do not compare the highest variant with the highest Variant, the swift will cost the same if you add all those things to it.

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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
In its own, Fabia is a nice machine, but in comparison to Swift, it is just too overpriced and too underperforming. Take the diesel on expresshighway with 4 adults and try overtaking a fast moving Wagon R driven by a serious high speed driver. Do the same in Swift and you will realize what I mean. For the asking price, we deserve better.
As I said earlier, I own all three, niether the Swift, nor the Wagon R can overtake a Fabia at highway speeds simply because the Fabia is at its best above 90 and the Swift is at its best below and at such speeds try braking with the Fabia and see the difference between the three, there is no Merit in the above statement.
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Old 24th December 2008, 21:11   #118
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BTW when is FABIA with new engine comming?
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Old 24th December 2008, 22:50   #119
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Fabia is in serious need of some good marketing. If it has something special in it, then it has to show off.
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Old 24th December 2008, 23:28   #120
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Originally Posted by ritz830 View Post
Fabia is in serious need of some good marketing. If it has something special in it, then it has to show off.
man its not just about marketing. they need bring down prices of those spares and accessories drastically! Owning a car is not about just buying it... Imagine how much you'd have to shell out in case you meet an accident or if somebody steals one of those rear view mirrors! And add to that Skoda "feel special" treatment. I guess lot of prospective buyers are put off because of that.
The product as such (i.e. the Car) is pretty good.
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