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Old 14th May 2008, 21:43   #136
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This is a mini war here, Suzuki car owners, some obviously happy that they are getting what they need and protecting the brand, the others who brought this brand by mistake, obviously not happy with it and complaining that their seats are shaking and defining quality in terms of pusing the plastic parts with fingers(hard baklite plastics are not one of the best quality plastics to put in the car). Joining and enjoying the war are other brand car owners, complaing all they can.

Its all finally, a long thread to pull down the happiness of all the Swift and SX4 car owners.

Quality is more of a perception rather than reality. A muted thud sound from suspension is quality for some, a nice soft sound from the door is quality to others, quiet interiors is quality to some, to some it is taking to the wildest roads and still staying in peiece, birght interiors, smooth engine operation, soft buttons, smooth interior surface etc. There is no definition to it. Quality is more defined in terms of if the car meets what the user wants from that, some what contradicting the consumer satisfaction. So the best you can do is define quality in what it means to you.

The modern Suzuki cars have a very stiff suspension setup to avoid brushing of the chassis at speed breakers(Started with WagonR introduction) and potholes, who ever owned the old 800 can confirm how many speed breakers it used to scrape. Infact its a known issue in Honda City as well as their Civic, is this not bad quality(how many times would you like scraping the speed breakers). Now a days the roads have improved a lot and people have learnt how to put together a speed breaker, otherwise these cars have no chance here. Because of the stiff suspension, you are bound to hear some noise here and there, which you would never notice in a softly sprung car, this difference only become increases with soft sprung cars feeling superb over time. Also attenuated to this is the fact that most Suzuki car buyers fix acessories outside and Honda would void the warrenty if that ever happens. These accesories are definitely not fitted properly and the Suzuki dealers too are not too far ahead. A stifly sprung car will also perform well in curves, as there is not much of weight shift. But the newer Suzuki cars also comes with EPS which are light on your shoulders, but Suzuki is yet to perfect this at high speeds. This attributes to people claiming that their handling is very bad as people tend to oversteer and it only gets worst with light power steering, this is a known issue in City too.

I really don't understands how all this attributes to bad quality, that you are comparing it with Tata and the likes.
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Old 15th May 2008, 01:44   #137
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Originally Posted by arunmur View Post
This is a mini war here, Suzuki car owners, some obviously happy that they are getting what they need and protecting the brand, the others who brought this brand by mistake, obviously not happy with it and complaining that their seats are shaking and defining quality in terms of pusing the plastic parts with fingers(hard baklite plastics are not one of the best quality plastics to put in the car). Joining and enjoying the war are other brand car owners, complaing all they can.

Its all finally, a long thread to pull down the happiness of all the Swift and SX4 car owners.

Quality is more of a perception rather than reality. A muted thud sound from suspension is quality for some, a nice soft sound from the door is quality to others, quiet interiors is quality to some, to some it is taking to the wildest roads and still staying in peiece, birght interiors, smooth engine operation, soft buttons, smooth interior surface etc. There is no definition to it. Quality is more defined in terms of if the car meets what the user wants from that, some what contradicting the consumer satisfaction. So the best you can do is define quality in what it means to you.

The modern Suzuki cars have a very stiff suspension setup to avoid brushing of the chassis at speed breakers(Started with WagonR introduction) and potholes, who ever owned the old 800 can confirm how many speed breakers it used to scrape. Infact its a known issue in Honda City as well as their Civic, is this not bad quality(how many times would you like scraping the speed breakers). Now a days the roads have improved a lot and people have learnt how to put together a speed breaker, otherwise these cars have no chance here. Because of the stiff suspension, you are bound to hear some noise here and there, which you would never notice in a softly sprung car, this difference only become increases with soft sprung cars feeling superb over time. Also attenuated to this is the fact that most Suzuki car buyers fix acessories outside and Honda would void the warrenty if that ever happens. These accesories are definitely not fitted properly and the Suzuki dealers too are not too far ahead. A stifly sprung car will also perform well in curves, as there is not much of weight shift. But the newer Suzuki cars also comes with EPS which are light on your shoulders, but Suzuki is yet to perfect this at high speeds. This attributes to people claiming that their handling is very bad as people tend to oversteer and it only gets worst with light power steering, this is a known issue in City too.

I really don't understands how all this attributes to bad quality, that you are comparing it with Tata and the likes.
Hats off to you for sharing a good valuable information about the suspensions. For obvious reasons now the quality can be a perception when talking about the suspension.

Imagine driving in the city at peek traffic hours tailing vehicle ahead, suddenly the vehicle in front of you rolls back a gives you a bump on the front of your car. What would you expect to happen. Either the bumper beedings are out and your bumper is loose, or in the worst case i call, it would be you lose your headlamps getting them cracked. Would anyone like to see the radiator hose cut, engine overheating and finally u end up spending 30 odd thousands on your car. Well can i call it a perception about Quality?

People spending 5 to 6 Lacs to buy a new car and do you think the owner is going to be impressed/excited to hear the rattles coming out from the front door on his first few drives? Thats not music to ears. The mighty Zen which is around is great in the build quality compared to the Swift/SX4. This is no perception.

And you were correct about the two types of owners who are happy with what they are getting and there are also ones who are not getting what they paid for.

And the EPS is expected to be more effeciently assisting driver when the vehicle is being driven at low speeds and disengage when the vehicle is at higher speeds. If its going to be engaged at higher speed it is just not oversteer that he is going to be affected with but also risk to his/other fellas life on the road. Whats the purpose of having the EPS then when its not doing the job its expected to or it is not tweaked to work as expected? Why should people get used to a malfunctioning low quality electronic part when they can get a good quality ones for the same money?

Why not take it on a positive note to make Maruti understand that the cars are expected to be of better quality. It is not the same customer who was buying cars 10 years back. Now there are better cars, better technologies and Maruti is slowly losing the critical attribute of a product, which is "QUALITY".

We have been sharing pictures of a Tata Sumo owner on protest outside the Tata Showroom fighting to get the Quality Product for whatever money he paid! Do we like to see ourselves in the same position? NO! Lets send a message through this forum to Maruti.

PS: I beleive there are lot of our BHPians and also guest visitors from various manufacturers to this forum who are directly/indirectly linked with the manufacturers. It will create an impact, i beleive somebody is hearing.

Its just Hope that drives life end of the day!
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Old 15th May 2008, 05:36   #138
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if you are talking about maruti's quality control,have a look at this thread.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ors-noida.html (How maruti almost lost a customer? Dealer: Rohan Motors, Noida)

Its a thread that i started when i was given a faulty SX4....Though maruti did resolve the issue,it shouldnt have happened in the first place.
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Old 15th May 2008, 09:51   #139
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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
Why not take it on a positive note to make Maruti understand that the cars are expected to be of better quality. It is not the same customer who was buying cars 10 years back. Now there are better cars, better technologies and Maruti is slowly losing the critical attribute of a product, which is "QUALITY".
Absolutely correct. Atleast 3 friends of mine have bought NHC over SX4 simply because the presence of features like ABS, Airbags etc in SX4 was offset (by a huge margin) by the quality of the parts and interiors. They felt it was worthwhile to spend another lakh and buy a car which makes them feel good while driving (pampers the ego) and not one in which they just keep on repeating to themselves - "It has ABS & airbags" to make up for the poor quality.

Maruti must understand that people now want a car that makes them feel good not only from outside but inside as well. Earlier there was negligible competition so ppl had not much choice. But now because of the presence of quality models from the competition, this perception is changing fast.

Gone are the days when Maruti can shove anything under the ppl's nose saying that - "it is a Maruti so it is bound to be a good product. Buy it now and FAST". I agree that there still are many ppl who will buy anything which Maruti throws at them but their numbers are shrinking fast.
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Old 15th May 2008, 09:59   #140
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@shobhit.... Their numbers dont show any sign of shrinking, infact sales have increased. SX4 is selling in much greater number than Baleno ever did.

P.S. I am not commenting on Maruti's quality in this post.
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Old 15th May 2008, 10:15   #141
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
@shobhit.... Their numbers dont show any sign of shrinking, infact sales have increased. SX4 is selling in much greater number than Baleno ever did.

P.S. I am not commenting on Maruti's quality in this post.
That is because the overall percentage of ppl who can afford cars in this segment has now dramatically increased in the last few years. The sale of most of the cars (irrespective of the manufacturer) has increased from the past.
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Old 15th May 2008, 10:22   #142
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Why did they buy low quality swifts and not good quality getz?
Well, the Swift is better looking, from a more popular brand, better to drive, has higher FE, superior resale and lower cost of ownership.

Again, the problems highlit in this thread aren't really significant enough to avoid the car. But yes, these are DEFINITELY areas that MUL needs to improve upon. To increase customer satisfaction and to be prepared for the competitive onslaught expected in this segment.

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Originally Posted by srijit View Post
Want to hear the really sad part of this?

Looks like they are listening in other countries but not in India.
If they are doing a good job in that market, well-deserved I say! Too bad about the kind of service Skoda dishes out to Indian owners.

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Originally Posted by GTO
Agreed with the overpricing, but certainly not cheating. Any seller is free to set a price for their product, the buyer has the option to buy it or not. Honda isn't stuffing NHC's down anyones throat. We live in the worlds largest democracy and do have a choice.
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Change that to irritating slow consumer courts and lack of awareness
I am sorry but no consumer court will help you in this. Honda, Mercedes, Toyota and BMW can overprice their cars all they want. You cannot go to the courts asking for a discount / lower price. Car manufacturers are free to price as they wish.

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I define the build quality in two ways......
I am glad you got that figured out. Your previous statements were a tad confusing.

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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Their numbers dont show any sign of shrinking, infact sales have increased.
They should'nt either. MUL's success is well-deserved.

However, think about it....if they do raise the bar on overall quality, the potential will be even more!
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Old 15th May 2008, 10:42   #143
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However, think about it....if they do raise the bar on overall quality, the potential will be even more!
Agree with you totally.
But I am sure if they do increase the quality, they will also increase the price which might not go down too well in the highly price sensitive Indian car market. Its just that they have to strike a balance somewhere in between and yes there is alot of scope for improvement.
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Old 15th May 2008, 10:45   #144
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Agree with you totally.
But I am sure if they do increase the quality, they will also increase the price which might not go down too well in the highly price sensitive Indian car market. Its just that they have to strike a balance somewhere in between and yes there is alot of scope for improvement.
The price rise might not be too much for such a volume player. Customers will buy Marutis because of all the other advantages of buying them. Did people pause for a moment when the high priced swift was introduced. Not at all. It might be difficult in the mid size segment where you play with Honda etc.,
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Old 15th May 2008, 10:58   #145
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The price rise might not be too much for such a volume player. Customers will buy Marutis because of all the other advantages of buying them.
Agreed.

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Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
Did people pause for a moment when the high priced swift was introduced.
As you said that the Swift is already highly priced, dont you think increasing it even further will show its effects on the sales.
Personally speaking, if Maruti were to increase the price of Swift any more now, I would be more than willing to spend my money on Getz.
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Old 15th May 2008, 10:58   #146
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Again, the problems highlit in this thread aren't really significant enough to avoid the car. But yes, these are DEFINITELY areas that MUL needs to improve upon. To increase customer satisfaction and to be prepared for the competitive onslaught expected in this segment.

think about it....if they do raise the bar on overall quality, the potential will be even more!
You summarised it very well. Longer this thread continues it will create more confusion then solution. I think most of us agree that there is lot of room for improvement, and MUL must act before its too late. Our country runs on percetions and mouth to mouth publicity. Once the percetion changes against MUL, it will be difficult for them to recover.
Time to close thread ?
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Old 15th May 2008, 11:40   #147
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I would not say that Maruti EPS is faulty but when compared to other cars Swift is a bit hard, but better than the Santro. SX4 is better and soft compared to Swift. i10 & Ford Fiesta is very soft and can be used with little effort. I am happy with the EPS which Maruti offers in SX4 and nothing to complain about it.
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Old 15th May 2008, 12:55   #148
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I would not say that Maruti EPS is faulty but when compared to other cars Swift is a bit hard, but better than the Santro. SX4 is better and soft compared to Swift. i10 & Ford Fiesta is very soft and can be used with little effort. I am happy with the EPS which Maruti offers in SX4 and nothing to complain about it.
I dont know whether EPS is faulty or not,but i really feel diffident to do good speeds on my vdi.I don get the necessary feedback above 90.Even verna (2007 may model) i have the steerin plays a lot at high speed.But verna is not having eps,i believe.In both cases i hold tightly to the steering at high speeds.It feels like if you make slight move the car will go out of control.
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Old 15th May 2008, 13:19   #149
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OT::since all the above problems are being faced by swfit/sx4 owners,does this mean that we will see the same problems(or more) in dzire(because it is based on the same platform )..
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Old 15th May 2008, 13:34   #150
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OT::since all the above problems are being faced by swfit/sx4 owners,does this mean that we will see the same problems(or more) in dzire(because it is based on the same platform )..
To an extent yes. I dont think maruti has done anything else in Dzire apart from adding a boot.
But dont worry, the car is still the best in its segment and is superb VFM.
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