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Old 18th May 2008, 17:43   #166
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Guys, the Baleno boot lid is not really light. It is sprung heavily, so it pops up and floats like that. If you ever remove the boot lid, you will be amazed at how stiff the springs are. The hood, on the other hand, is not sprung, and thus feels heavy.
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Old 18th May 2008, 18:12   #167
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I am glad that Swift / SX4 owners are taking this thread in the right spirit. I dont mean to lambast these cars....their sales do prove that there is inherent value provided. Don't get me wrong, I do think that they are good cars (for the price). But my point is, the days of blindly trusting "MUL Quality" are gone. Long gone.

Anyone wondering why I wrote this up on a monday? Well, last evening I drove my Jiju's Swift ZXi. It has covered about 22,000 kms. Man, that car felt like it has run 50,000 kms! The gearshift felt rubbery and certainly not like that of a new Swift....rattles and road noise galore.....engine responsiveness was lacking, it just didnt feel right. Mind you, all maintenance schedules have been adhered to, at Vitesse (The best Maruti service IMHO).
Agree with almost everything you have said especially about Quality Control
but a couple of things man.
Firstly :- the days of blindly trusting "MUL Quality" are gone. Long gone. I never could nor did i ever trust , let alone blindly trust , Maruti . Maybe its me but especially the esteem - i hate the car , disgusting to drive hard.

Secondly : -
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...-17600-km.html (Swift Lxi -performance service at 17600 km)

Maybe because of the care i have taken but my car's at 22 000 odd km and man she feels great , no new rattles all taken care of , the performance is the same , gear box feels great too haven't yet put in synthetic gear oil but i feel the need to change the gear oil every 5000 km more or less just did yesterday in fact.
I clean my k&n stock panel every 3000 km or as and when i feel it needs to be cleaned .
Generally clean my injectors at the halfway point between services too.

BIG PS :- Even my company and me have used vitesse for years and I have no problems with them personally but they definately rip off people , have proof of that too.
So like i said in my service thread
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...-17600-km.html (Swift Lxi -performance service at 17600 km)
one has to stay with the car at service time , see what they do and how they do it and correct them too , I think its sick .

cheers



PS2 : GTO is jiju , your friend - on stock plugs and oil ? The stock plugs are so SO SO bad i cant tell you but you apparently feel the maruti stock plugs Vs high performance plugs makes no sense or difference at all so yeah cant say much more about that to you.

Last edited by cyneverdie : 18th May 2008 at 18:21.
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Old 18th May 2008, 19:19   #168
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I agree whole heartedly with Amit and hydrashok...beginning to miss my Palio...sniff.
The Swift VDi is very fuel efficient and torquey, I went on a long drive of a 1000 odd kms and was blown by the phenomenal fuel efficiency..22kms to a litre of diesel with speeds of 120 consistently, and flooring it through the Ghats.
But the cocooning of the Palio is absent, worse it is accompanied by a plethora of rattles and thuds..my car is 2500 kms and a 45 days old.
Somehow the whole thing felt loose, the seats though comfy are not in the Palio's league. The Palio seats were firmer and supported you well, in the Swift I was beginning to get a pain in my knees before I plonked a hard cushion for more underthigh support, which solved the issue.
Amit, you are spot on with the power window issue, I too roll down the passenger windows when my intention was to wind down my own ! And they are not backlit, it can drive you crazy at night.
Am awaiting the Linea, Punto..
the only part of the Swift that felt great and refined was the....THE ENGINE and that's from Fiat
Come back Fiat ( with your lousy marketing and after sales), all is forgiven.



where is the magic
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Old 20th May 2008, 13:03   #169
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We are talking about the Dzrie boot but what about the SX4's? The damn thing just refuses to shut unless it's banged down hard at least 2-3 times. Everytime my car is checked at a mall, I have to park it and then shut the boot because the security guys didn't realise it was open and I don't blame them. A couple of times my office guys put something into the boot and while driving I realised that it was open and had to pull over and shut it.

I have done 3 services on the car - Vitesse and S.K. and both of them claim that it's normal and thats how boot's are. So much for excellent Maruti's service. The next time I am going to take my Palio and show them how the hatch/boot is supposed to close.

As for the EPS, every auto magazine keeps writing 'sharp steering' as one of the pro's of the car. I wonder if they have actually driven the car.

Fellow SX4 owners: Everytime my car goes over a minor rough patch , joint, ridge on the road, I can feel the steering tilt towards the left and the car makes a very minor change of direction. Either I have to correct the change in direction or anticipate and hold the steering tight. Is this (in Maruti's language) 'normal'?
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Old 20th May 2008, 13:14   #170
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Originally Posted by amit View Post
We are talking about the Dzrie boot but what about the SX4's? The damn thing just refuses to shut unless it's banged down hard at least 2-3 times. Everytime my car is checked at a mall, I have to park it and then shut the boot because the security guys didn't realise it was open and I don't blame them. A couple of times my office guys put something into the boot and while driving I realised that it was open and had to pull over and shut it.
I wonder if there are many SX4s in my office complex at Ascendas IT Park, Hyd. This is because the security guys close my boot with an uncomfortable thud at the gate, so much so that I had to warn them time and again. When they did it for the third time, I stopped the car at the gate and insisted on speaking to the supervisor. When he came, I advised him to caution all his staff that my car was not a Maruti, and that they need to be gentle at the job. Nowadays, they are quite diligent when it comes to closing my car's boot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
As for the EPS, every auto magazine keeps writing 'sharp steering' as one of the pro's of the car. I wonder if they have actually driven the car.
One of the first reviews of the SX4 in an auto mag praised the features of the car to glory, and said he 'liked the folding rear seat' pretty much. It looks like they are on the payroll of car manufacturers and write anything to fool gullible readers.
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Old 20th May 2008, 13:48   #171
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Quote:
We are talking about the Dzrie boot but what about the SX4's? The damn thing just refuses to shut unless it's banged down hard at least 2-3 times. Everytime my car is checked at a mall, I have to park it and then shut the boot because the security guys didn't realise it was open and I don't blame them. A couple of times my office guys put something into the boot and while driving I realised that it was open and had to pull over and shut it.
I am sorry, my friend.. but no issue with the boot atleast on mine.. but I do notice some grease/lubricant in the body lid joints of both doors/boot..you probably want to check that too...

Quote:
I have done 3 services on the car - Vitesse and S.K. and both of them claim that it's normal and thats how boot's are. So much for excellent Maruti's service. The next time I am going to take my Palio and show them how the hatch/boot is supposed to close.
just for a laughter... you shouldn't have downgraded to a Maruti from a Fiat! LOL.. I think, most service personals are not that literate, and any small issues, they tend to blame it on the car characteristics, per se..

Quote:
As for the EPS, every auto magazine keeps writing 'sharp steering' as one of the pro's of the car. I wonder if they have actually driven the car.
Again, not the very best EPS.. but I don't think there is anything major to complain about it either... but I honestly, feel you should stop making benchmark against Palio... I know Palio is a nice car to drive, but it stops there.

Quote:
Fellow SX4 owners: Everytime my car goes over a minor rough patch , joint, ridge on the road, I can feel the steering tilt towards the left and the car makes a very minor change of direction. Either I have to correct the change in direction or anticipate and hold the steering tight. Is this (in Maruti's language) 'normal'?
I have driven on rough roads quite sometime.. but didn't actually experience steering tilting..may be I will try next time and see if I can see anything of that attentively..



Quote:
One of the first reviews of the SX4 in an auto mag praised the features of the car to glory, and said he 'liked the folding rear seat' pretty much. It looks like they are on the payroll of car manufacturers and write anything to fool gullible readers.
my friend, what about those ads in TV/prints that glorify Fiestas unmatch fuel efficiency.. 36 kmpl... talk about lame ads to fool buyers.. no ill feelings..mate
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Old 20th May 2008, 14:27   #172
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
At 40kmph, the ESP will cut off and not 60kmph.
Swift/Sx4 has ESP??

and it cuts off at 40 KMPH !!!!!!!!!
LOL, you meant the EPS didnt you??

When i test drove the Swift, i didnt like the EPS one bit. It was detached from the road and i felt no feedback. It felt exactly like I was driving a car in NeedForSpeed in PC with my gaming wheel!!

And as palioman mentioned, the only great thing in that car is the engine, and that is from Fiat.
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Old 20th May 2008, 15:27   #173
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Originally Posted by iTNerd View Post
I am sorry, my friend.. but no issue with the boot atleast on mine..
Thats exactly what iffy quality or lack of QC means.


Quote:
just for a laughter... you shouldn't have downgraded to a Maruti from a Fiat! LOL..
I don't mind you laughing at me but I honestly thought I was upgrading. Looking back at my ownership experience, I think I have actually downgraded!

Quote:
I think, most service personals are not that literate, and any small issues, they tend to blame it on the car characteristics, per se..
If this was said by a Fiat or Ford service advisor all hell would have happened here. Just because it's Maruti or Honda, we change our tune to 'all service personnels are illetrate'.

Quote:
but I honestly, feel you should stop making benchmark against Palio...
I am not benchmarking the SX4 against the Palio. The Palio comes into the picture only because it's the other car I own and a car that I know inside, out. If I owned a Standard herald, I would compare it to that car.

Besides, how would it feel if you bought a Rs.8.xx lakh car and found it lacking against a Rs.5.xx lakh one? How then can I dare to compare it to cars it actually competes against?! Why does a hatch of 5 lac car close with a re-assuring thud while the boot of a 8 lac car require you to shove it hard again and again to close?

Quote:
I know Palio is a nice car to drive, but it stops there.
No one said the Palio is the perfect car in the world.

Do you know the drawbacks of the Palio? I do. And I shall be glad to discuss the Palio negitives with you. But are you ready to accept the negitives of the SX4? I log onto a public forum and talk openly about the niggling quality issues of my 8 lac rupee car at the risk of being laughed at. How many people would have the guts to do that? If the boot on my car wouldn't close, I will say it. If I feel the EPS is faulty, I will say it and I will say it to the engineer who designed the EPS.

Quote:
I have driven on rough roads quite sometime.. but didn't actually experience steering tilting..may be I will try next time and see if I can see anything of that attentively..
Revert back to point 1.
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Old 20th May 2008, 15:58   #174
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Going through the thread, makes me think about any opinion on the Internet. Let me try and make my point if possible.

I have a SX4 and I've driven it for 12K and on various types of roads. There have been rattles, but its from the suspension after I'd driven for about 2K in about 3-4 days on really bad roads. The boot is fine and I know atleast three of my friends who do not have problems with the boot.

IMHO, EPS is not faulty, it takes time for people used to different kind of steering to get adjusted to SX4. I took quite some time as well, but a few trips in ghat sections got me up and running. IMHO, the concept of steering, handling, NVH, power bands are all very subjective and differ from person to person. I've also seen these depend on self-image, brand-image etc., I am a firm believer that I need to drive in relaxing mode, so I really like my power to appear in bands where I can overtake a truck. There are people I know who'd like more power from start-up. So such perceptions are different from person to person.

Similarly, plastic quality is a matter of perception and I like utility more than looks, so I find the lack of more spaces to keep things troubling than the quality.

As has been pointed out, the car has had production quality issues. I have been fortunate and the car I have has very few issues. A few others have probably been unlucky in getting a really bad egg. The natural tendency with owners is that we spend more time voicing out opinions, where we feel we have been cheated. What I mean is if I've got a lemon, I'm more likely to speak out than if I I've got a good deal. So its likely that opinions are not well represented on both sides.

Given that perceptions of design quality are subjective and production quality might not be equally represented, would the Internet be a good forum to judge quality? Would the fact that rattles are being heard in the forum be representative of the real world at all?

VBV
PS: I've had great service from Maruti.
PPS: I deon't want to deny its negatives or its positives, overall I think its a good car for its worth.

Last edited by VBV : 20th May 2008 at 16:01.
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Old 20th May 2008, 16:54   #175
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Thumbs down Where are you taking us Maruti!!

I believe all of Maruti's problems arise due to lack of product strategy and bad core philosophy.

Maruti as of today makes OMNI's and 800's, it also makes cars like Swift DDIS and SX4.

There are very NO major manufacturers across the world that can have THAT kinda product portfolio and be successfull, and by successful i mean REALLY successful.

The point i am trying to make is in trying to live up to its success and No 1 position Maruti as a company has lost track of what it wanst to make and for whom!

Does it really have to be a mass manufacturer?! How can it expect SX4 to compete with NHC when it continue's to sell relic's like Onmi and 800, when it continues to undertyre its wagon R's, Swift and likes!!

What drives it to make such cars

...money?? i am sure it can make far more money if it hikes prices of Swift and Sx4 while ensuring delivery and quality.

...being No1?? With so many car companies coming in Maruti will face challenges..does it stll expect to have 60% of all car sales in india?

... what about brand image, innovation, exports etc?? When will i see a NEW small car, a upgrade to Alto (apart from ads and sickers) or Wagon R, how about revamping the Gypsy??

As of today we have a waiting for SX4, SWIFT and Dzire. Is it neccessary? ABsolutely not.

Dzire is simply a bad car.

Philosophy - Need to replace Esteem? or Just add a boot to Swift and make a cash cow.

Did MUL really NEED to add a boot to come up with a three box sedan to replace Esteem?? Why could it not have designed a NEW three box sedan? a proper new design with diffrent interiors, a proper chassis and maybe a diffrent powertrain. One can expect this from a young Indian manufacturer like Tata, but from an established Japanese Marque it was certainly not expected. So this is what we get a wierd looking three box sedan that carries over all the faults of a SWIFT with only one benefit - BOOTSPACE!

I believe Esteem was a far better car in its day than Dzire is by today's standards. It was engineered to be a three box sedan unlike Dzire.

I am sure esteem and Zen left sufficient assembly line space for Dzire and likes. Wagon R does not sell the same numbers, did MUL not see these constraints??

Despite being so many years in India, did MUL really expect GV (bad interiors, lack of diesel and no specialist service backup) to be successful? (atleast in its current avatar!)

I believe it is lack to attention to these queries which is resulting in above problems. MSIL is burdened with being a No1 people mover and a philosophy that aims at making JUST money (reminds me of GM!)

My 2 cents

Elito

Last edited by Elito11 : 20th May 2008 at 16:56.
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Old 20th May 2008, 17:01   #176
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Originally Posted by praveen_v View Post

When i test drove the Swift, i didnt like the EPS one bit. It was detached from the road and i felt no feedback. It felt exactly like I was driving a car in NeedForSpeed in PC with my gaming wheel!!

.
Well man for the first 20 mins of driving my brand new Swift Lxi , on the stock tires ie , it felt like I was driving on a cloud !!
Now I am on 205\55\15 was on 195's before and I love the ESP as compared to a NHC at least. Changed my stock tires in 6 km BTW.
So yeah man , was it on stock tires ?

Amit : - Were you on stock too? Really curious , on all the ESP systems you didn't like , please.

PS: Of course the ESP always could get better yet and should , but I am a high performance driver so that aspect matters - everything could and should be better.

PS2: Both petrol and diesel swift engines could always be much more refined and POWERFUL . Not driven the sx4 yet , so cant comment but the tires always matter big time - especially for ESP feedback.

Last edited by cyneverdie : 20th May 2008 at 17:04.
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Old 20th May 2008, 17:06   #177
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Guys, the Baleno boot lid is not really light. It is sprung heavily, so it pops up and floats like that. If you ever remove the boot lid, you will be amazed at how stiff the springs are. The hood, on the other hand, is not sprung, and thus feels heavy.
Yo. Baleno boot lid is perfectly fine. I dunno who got the idea that its not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VBV View Post
Going through the thread, makes me think about any opinion on the Internet. Let me try and make my point if possible...
VBV, a fresh and balanced perspective there. Liked your post
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Old 20th May 2008, 18:06   #178
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Originally Posted by iTNerd View Post

my friend, what about those ads in TV/prints that glorify Fiestas unmatch fuel efficiency.. 36 kmpl... talk about lame ads to fool buyers.. no ill feelings..mate
Agreed, those are claims put forth by manufacturers under 'ideal test conditions'. While we can take such tall claims by manufacturers with a pinch of salt, we generally do not expect this from 'independent' reviewers in auto-magazines.
When I bought my WagonR , I got free copies of Maruti's Gateway magazine for a year. Almost every issue had a claim of WagonR mileage being around 27 to 28 kmph in contests held in various cities of India. I took that with a pinch of salt, and my mileage in city driving hovers between 12 to 14, and on highways between 15 to 16.5.
The point is that when Maruti makes such tall claims, we tend to keep quiet, but when Ford or Renault makes such claims, we tend to hurl accusations at them.
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Old 20th May 2008, 18:15   #179
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To me, the SX4 is a great looker. I remember the first time I saw it on Brigade Road, B'lore - a red SX4 stopping at traffic. Wow!

A few months later, I found myself at a Maruti showroom enquiring about the Swift, and there was a silver SX4 being backed up, inside the showroom. I had another Wow moment. I changed my mind then and there and decided to go for the SX4 (regardless of the strain it would be on the pocket).

Now the SX4 design takes off from the FIAT Sedici. The Swift runs on the FIAT engine. The SX4 looks great, the Swift runs great, and FIAT somehow seems to have something to do with both of these. So I don't think a FIAT-MARUTI comparison is all that unwarranted.

The two times I checked out the boot when I took test-drives of the SX4, the boot-lid refused to close shut with one 'bang'. In fact once, the salesman and I were bouncing it back and forth a few times before it closed . And I got the standard reply

"Sir, ye aisa hi hota hai".
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Old 20th May 2008, 18:39   #180
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with Elito11. Looks like Maruti is concentrating more on business, register as many sales as possible rather than wasting time on constructing a new car as a replacement for esteem
Anyways the old 800(94 model with crash guard fitted in front), the old GEN and the old esteem were far better than their current generations.
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