Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd May 2008, 14:27   #241
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,755
Thanked: 89,445 Times
Default

Guys, lets not get hot under the collar here. Keep the discussion objective; no more sarcasm / rude posts.

Thanks
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2008, 15:23   #242
Senior - BHPian
 
vnabhi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: DC -> DC
Posts: 5,271
Thanked: 1,236 Times
Default

Hey guys, I just took a drive on my colleague's 2 month old Swift vxi that has 1850 kms on the odo. Unlike what has been reported here, there were no rattles at all. The leg room was decent even at the back (more than a Waggie) and the NVH was pretty good.
Further, I sat in the rear on the return journey and did not feel claustrophobic at all.
Was he a lucky guy to get a rattle-free car?
Only issue I found was that the AC had to be switched off in lower gears for better grunt.

SB--what I had mentioned in my earlier post was only in a lighter vein, don't take it to heart.If you've read my earlier posts, I've defended the EPS in the WagonR.

Last edited by vnabhi : 22nd May 2008 at 15:27.
vnabhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2008, 16:36   #243
Distinguished - BHPian
 
supremeBaleno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Weekdays@Chennai, Weekends@Kerala
Posts: 5,164
Thanked: 1,638 Times
Default

No issues, vnabhi.
I guess your friend is lucky, like my Dad. Maybe we could have a poll (of SX4 and Swift users) to know the percentage of owners who have rattles in their cars.
supremeBaleno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2008, 17:06   #244
Senior - BHPian
 
iTNerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Imphal/Noida
Posts: 1,069
Thanked: 500 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Before the SX4 came out, we criticised MUL for the puny tyres in their cars (eg. BalenoLxi had 165/80/R13), the build quality (their cars weighed lesser compared to peers), the low GC (Baleno scraping badly-built-humps with more than 4 people on board), not enough power (Baleno detuned to 91bhp from earlier 94bhp). And most of these were attributed to MUL's gameplan of targetting better FE.

And when MUL addressed all of these concerns (16" tyres which cars in even a segment above don't have, better build quality leading to a kerb weight of 1200kg, the best GC in its class, 102bhp of power etc) with the SX4, we now want FE also. It does not work that way.
I could n't have summarized it better, SB! The mileage of 12-12.5 kmpl (city) I get with all those FE-unfriendly attributes is just amazing.. its just the refinement and plastic quality that maruti needs to work on... and as I own a maruti, before you ask, I thought I would answer beforehand.. NOOOO.. I have not encountered ANY rattling of sort till now (8000 kms)..
iTNerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2008, 18:31   #245
Senior - BHPian
 
hydrashok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In my Office
Posts: 2,528
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
...

GTO, is it possible to add a poll to this thread for the rattle part ?
There's a poll on Swift rattles here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ft-rattle.html (Does your Swift rattle?)
hydrashok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2008, 20:14   #246
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: noida
Posts: 1,049
Thanked: 297 Times
Default

No rattles in my car as yet.
rajneeesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd May 2008, 10:07   #247
BHPian
 
anarchist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicago / Namma Bengaluru
Posts: 371
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Well I own a 2005 Swift one of first Swifts released in Bangalore, got mine in June 2005, ofcourse it had rattles which was solved within the first service and till date I dont have this problem, yes the clutch plate shudder came out in the open immediately after the 20k service, I was told the clutch plate is 80% worn out and needs a overhaul, I said let me wait for the next service to the overhaul done. Today my Swift's reading stands at 46,000 km though I do get a shudder once in a while when I am on an incline I never got it done and its not a big problem till date.

I had the power window switches come off a couple a times but got it done at no costs and its back in shape.

One other major issue is Swift door locks being very delicate, a couple of my friends were in a hurry to get off the car when the doors were locked and the first time got it repaired without any charges, now its come back to haunt me again. Will get it done during my next service due anytime now.

I got my footwear changed the second day I got my car to 205/55 R15's with Goodyear GSD2 Eagle F1's which was on my car till I completed 40k, had a lot of road noise, uneven tyre wear problems but now I have got it changed to Yoko's S drive 205/55 R15. Today the road noise is minimal, mileage always hovered around 10.4 kmpl to 12.5 kmpl in Bangalore city driving, highways max I got was 18 (not going above 100) and worst was 12.5 kmpl during my return trip from chennai on the expressway with average speeds 100+ kmph.

Have a reverse parking sensor with a camera so parking is a breeze anywhere anytime of the day n night.

The only mod (if I may call so) is the stock replacement K&N filter again got it within a couple of months of me getting the car.

I have no issues of low rpm lag in the pick up of the car, I can take the car from 10 kmph to 100kmph in the 2nd gear even with the aircon on full blast with a Top Speed achieved (speedo reading) of 180+ kmph.

I had comtemplated get the whoooosh pischhhhhhhhhhh done but badly short of funds due to other committments.


Well I am one happy Maruti customer, never had any issues with the Maruti A$$ till date. So anyone approaching me for a suggestion to buy a new car, I will suggest Swift without as much as a blink!!!.

I've got my monies worth on my Swift and I enjoying every second I spend in my car be it bad roads, insane traffic, short trips, outstation long drives each time everytime.
anarchist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd May 2008, 13:13   #248
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,755
Thanked: 89,445 Times
Default

Note from Team-BHP Support : Thread cleant up. I had put in a request earlier, but consider this as a polite warning. If you want to lambast each other and their cars, this is not the place.

Stick to the topic ONLY.
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd May 2008, 17:01   #249
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: KA-03
Posts: 471
Thanked: 49 Times
Default

Definitely true...

I went to the dealer to book the Swift VDi, which I have test driven, and finalized on it. This time I went with a cheque.

That was the day DZire is released and on display. The dealer asked me, "would you like to go for this?" Its a big car, more boot space etc...

And off line talk to him, he was saying it will give Verna, Honda city a run for money etc...

This was my response to him
-->
I like the space, but I don't like the plastics in it.
I know that it is the same plastic used in Swift, which I am buying now, and Dzire which is present there.

but, for me, I can accept frugality in a hatch back, but not a sedan. I see sedan as more refined and which offers me some luxuries.
And definitely Dzire doesn't offer me them.
So I am not going for them. And coming to your argument, of giving a run for money for other cars, the same logic applies.
It is a personal choice for every individual whether they want can accept frugality for a lesser price or they want refinement. As of now, I can accept frugality in a hatch back, and my perspective and requirement may change later.
It may not give a run for money for Honda, but yes, it can pull some more people.
<--
sriturl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd May 2008, 18:08   #250
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kochi, Kerala
Posts: 38
Thanked: 10 Times
Default

If you feel this post is bit long, sorry for that.

I want to summarize my/family ownership experience with various Maurti vehicles. I am talking about only Maruti and its perceived value & quality. I am absolutely not comparing maruti with any other brand on any parameters. I am only highlighting the fact that, for us Maruti has been THE reliable, comfortable and Value for money vehicles.

So far, in the family circle we have owned
- 800DX - pre-MPFI version
- Omni - basic version, pre-MPFI model
- Zen - MPFI & non-MPFI
- Wagon-R
- Alto
- SX4

Ownership experience span across ~12yrs. Let me also state that, me or any of my family members are not really auto enthusiasts. Our objective (I am sure 90% of Indian 4 wheeler users are of my type) is to use a vehicle which will transport us from point-A to point-B with acceptable level of ride comfort, with least possible cost and maximum reliability (no break downs on the way). We don't care how fast the vehicle is reaching 100km/hr, but we care whether we can break & stop the vehicle in time if we have to, that too without any after effect.

Vehicle Purchase Cost (On road price): My experience shows, Maruti vehicles score better here. Most of the times, you will not find another brand vehicle with the same or more feature list at the same price point.

Vehicle ownership running cost: I need not elaborate. Spare parts cost is indeed on the lower side. Once I had to take a chance and drove my Zen over a set of large stones (why I had to get into such a circumstance is a different story). In the process, the rod connecting the gear box and gear lever got a slight bent. The replacement part costed just less than 50Rs (though the labor cost came close to 2500-3000 rupees).

Reliability: Our experience has been that, all our Maruti vehicle were/are trustworthy. Never ever got stranded because of any failure. Only once I had to call the service guys, that too because I drove the car over real big stones taking a huge chance and the gear-lever/box rod got a bent. Otherwise my car was always trustworthy. In the past 8 years, I have been driving 20-30km daily, that too every day night driving. Never ever engine or electricals failed or gave any trouble. In my 6 year ownership of Zen, I once had to replace one break-light bulb. that's it. My brother drove his omni from Asam to Kerala and he covered the entire distance in 10days or so.. His omni was not even A/C or MPFI and was already 5-6yrs old when he made this drive. The Alto we have in our family is not used frequently. Manier times, it is used once in a month or so. Even then it does not show any resistance in starting-up.

Service network: Do I have to say any thing? I drive between Bangalore and Cochin occasionally. Irrespective of the route I take (Salem route or Kozikode route), I know an authorized service centre is always a call away through out my journey. It is a massive advantage and peace of mind for people like me.

Finally resale value: So far we sold 800 & Zen and believe me, those sales actually gave me a smile. I could not have expected more.

These things are the minimum expectations from the vehicle, and my point is our maruti vehicles never ever failed us in these critical parameters. Many people have complained about rattles, but I also saw many saying rattles appeared after fitting with after-market stuff. In the past 8 years, I have owned a Zen & now Sx4 and in my home town we have a 6yrs old Wagon-R. Never experienced rattle issues in Zen & Sx4. It may be because in Zen & Sx4, I did not add any accessories, so have been driving with all stock stuff only. Where as in Wagon-R, we had to add ICE, so I would not say it is rattle free. I think it all depends on how & who opens the dash/door etc and put them back into its original shape.

This note might look like from a person who has been hired by maruti. But believe me, I am a ordinary, non-expert car user, whose needs are beautifully met by Maruti. Last year when decided to change my Zen, there was no comparison. I did not even step into any other dealership. They might be selling technically advanced, more "quality" cars that too without rattle, higher snob-value etc etc. But I wanted a reliable, value for money, trust-worthy car, and when I have a brand which was tested with my own experience, I simply did not want to experiment. So went and bought Sx4 zxi without any hesitation. And you know, till this moment absolutely no regret on that decision.

The thread starter wanted to highlight the decline in quality in recent years. Frankly I did not notice. May be the sheet metal thickness has gone down by few submilli-meters. I bought my Zen in 2001, Waggon-R in 2002, Alto in 2006, Sx4 in 2007. The quality drop is not really visible to me at least. As I mentioned earlier, so far we did not get any tangible evidence to prove otherwise.

Note: These are my personal opinions on brand Maruti. As mentioned above, there is no comparison to any other brand.
psvinay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd May 2008, 20:29   #251
Senior - BHPian
 
NetfreakBombay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,387
Thanked: 338 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by psvinay View Post
Reliability: Our experience has been that, all our Maruti vehicle were/are trustworthy.
Service network:
Finally resale value:
These things are the minimum expectations from the vehicle, and my point is our maruti vehicles never ever failed us in these critical parameters.
I think everyone agrees to these +ive points about Maruti vehicles in general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psvinay View Post
Many people have complained about rattles, but I also saw many saying rattles appeared after fitting with after-market stuff.
Don't think all rattles can be attributed to after-market parts. And Maruti is not the only brand that has to deal with after-market parts.


Maruti does meet "minimum" expectations (I myself bought one because of reliability and price), but someone paying 8 lakh+ is looking for much more then that.
NetfreakBombay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd May 2008, 22:53   #252
Senior - BHPian
 
aaggoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vadodara
Posts: 4,675
Thanked: 1,427 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
I think everyone agrees to these +ive points about Maruti vehicles in general.


Don't think all rattles can be attributed to after-market parts. And Maruti is not the only brand that has to deal with after-market parts.


Maruti does meet "minimum" expectations (I myself bought one because of reliability and price), but someone paying 8 lakh+ is looking for much more then that.

That minimum can be different for different people. If someone is upgrading from 800 to SX4/Swift, he will very happy, but then if someone is owning Skoda Laura and buys SX4/Swift as second car, he will not be happy.

I generally define build quality in two parameters,
1) Interior fit and finish.
2) Chassis, brakes, suspension longitivity,etc.

Maruti may fail in paramter 1 in case of SX4/Swift, but on the parameter 2, I think it scores good. The reliability (as you have mentioned the primary reason for your purcahse ) i.e. mechanical realiability is excellent from almost all maruti products.

Improvement in interior fit and finish can be improved, and there are no doubts about that. However to say that Maruti quality has gone down significantly is something I cant agree completely.
aaggoswami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd May 2008, 23:06   #253
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Delhi
Posts: 16
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Hi wonder if the same is true of all Asia car makers (currently driving a Palio). Now planning on purchasing the current Corolla have heard a lot on the engine however not so sure of the body etc primarily on the ability to hold up like an european (only other car in consideration is Skoda).
How do others especially toyota hold on these parameters.
avsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th May 2008, 12:58   #254
BHPian
 
praveen_v's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chennai
Posts: 457
Thanked: 120 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Improvement in interior fit and finish can be improved, and there are no doubts about that. However to say that Maruti quality has gone down significantly is something I cant agree completely.
IMO, For the last two years, Maruti might have lowered it's standard for the Quality inspection, meaning more parts now pass through the quality check because of the lowered standard(maybe to meet the higher demand).

What this means is that along with cars with good quality parts, cars with lower quality parts are also sold off. This will explain why some people does not face any issues while others have issues very early.
praveen_v is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th May 2008, 13:25   #255
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: noida
Posts: 1,049
Thanked: 297 Times
Default

The fall in quality of MSIL products, in my opinion is more of a perception.

Earlier Maruti was manufacturing very basic products like the 800, the Omni, the Zen and the Esteem. Out of these it was essentially the three lower end cars which used to sell more.
Since then there have been a lot of changes in the market:

1)With Maruti moving up the price band, the expectations of people looking at models like the Swift, the SX4 and now the Dzire are much higher.

2) Now the cars are being compared with higher priced competitiors ( like Honda , Hyundai and GM) who themselves have upped the game ( NHC better than OHC in terms of interiors, Verna better than Accent and the I10 much better than the Santro). Most of these cars however offer much fewer features than Maruti.

So the goalposts have changed over the lst few years. Santro, a car which was considered to have class leading interiors and fit and finish is now considered to be an average product.

What MSIL should do is , package its vehicles better in terms of interiors etc to give the cars a feel good factor.( similar to NHC vs the OHC). This will enable it to improve the perception that it is good only in small, low cost cars.
rajneeesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Reliability and hassle-free ownership: Perceptions of popular car brands on Team-bhp RadiantKarma The Indian Car Scene 115 27th August 2016 18:58
BMW India 2012 and premium small cars and perceptions! S350L-E240 The Indian Car Scene 22 16th September 2011 16:55
Skewed perceptions, biased, preconceived notions towards Hyundai cars.Why? mclaren1885 The Indian Car Scene 222 9th September 2009 13:20
Camera Phone Problem : People's perceptions lead to big trouble. aaggoswami Shifting gears 30 17th June 2009 06:32
NANO effect and EURO effect in Small Car market allwheeldrive The Indian Car Scene 8 15th June 2009 22:29


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 18:00.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks