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Old 27th May 2008, 15:57   #91
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my point would be for the govt. to give oil bonds to the extent of loss and re-imburse the oil bonds via cess. In case the price of fuel goes low in future, no need to give oil bonds and you can drop the cess. Reducing the oil price is always difficult because it will affect the profitability of the oil companies, this way they cant complain.
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Old 27th May 2008, 17:31   #92
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Wish I had bought a NHC instead of corolla . anyway,I dont think with the general elections coming near,and the UPA already losing assembly elections in various states,the govt. would hike fuel rates by much.
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Old 27th May 2008, 17:58   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bharanidharang View Post
my point would be for the govt. to give oil bonds to the extent of loss and re-imburse the oil bonds via cess. In case the price of fuel goes low in future, no need to give oil bonds and you can drop the cess. Reducing the oil price is always difficult because it will affect the profitability of the oil companies, this way they cant complain.
Point is why an honest tax payer should pay more for the comforts of oil guzzlers in general.

Your analogy is typical of populist government policy which lacks justification. This move may be beneficial if you are amongst those who pay meagre tax/ have non taxable income.

As pointed earlier (@suvi) let the users pay, this will enable move towards fuel saving habits, alternative fuels and efficient cars, which in turn shall be truely beneficial.
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Old 27th May 2008, 18:04   #94
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i am in the high tax paying bracket

are we talking about oil guzzlers in this country. I am sure 90% of the country will be trying to extract the last mile out of every litre of fuel they put in their cars. Is not everbody a fuel user directly or indirectly.

if we increase price of fuel directly, its going to impact all of us head-on in all fronts. You will be paying more for fuel, Commodity Price will increase, day-to-day running will go up. Are you ok with that. Even if you are a low user of your vehicle, this cascading effect of fuel will still affect you.

No offense meant.
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Old 27th May 2008, 18:16   #95
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For most people within the system, ie who pay tax things are looking ominous because the government has no choice but to burden you in more ways to fund subsidies and itself.

Maybe its time to reconsider subsidies and try to look for more direct and effective programs to help weaker section of society.

Subsidies actually end up helping and sustaining a model where people who are working are underpaid and have to depend on the government for handouts which just doesn't make sense, for instance construction workers, infrastructure workers, and this is just one example and there are many. The real estate market is huge and booming and profits are obscene yet they cannot pay their workers decently or even have basic safety and humane systems. And these workers are then depending on the government for help, so who is the government subsidising, the workers or the builders? By sustaining this system with subsidies you are just transferring purchasing power from hardworking employees to a single source, how can this help the economy?

Now this can be applied across a lot of industries. But what about those who don't have an income? Well for them and other people who genuinely need help it doesn't matter whether something is 10 bucks or 50 bucks because they don't have an income and need help either way, you need to find a system for direct subsidies and support, easier said than done but the only effective mechanism if you are interested in actually helping people rather than populist vote gaining politics.

Last edited by raul : 27th May 2008 at 18:19.
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Old 27th May 2008, 18:16   #96
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Originally Posted by bharanidharang View Post
its going to impact all of us head-on in all fronts. You will be paying more for fuel,
I understand your point of view, Well I am in the camp where I would rather face increased prices and have the option of modifying my consumption, rather than closing my eyes to the problem and feel good, while my finances bleed via increased taxes.

Majority of the population do not pay direct taxes also Agri/IT sector is exempt.
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Old 27th May 2008, 18:24   #97
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this country screwed up its financial system on the day they introduced subsidies. You are shooting yourself

When India wanted to move into free market it should have been that way instead of subsidies. One side you put a import duty on oil and the other side you are subsidising it.

We pay tax promptly but do we ever bother (except reading it the day-after budget on newspaper) on where it is spent. Accountability is near zero in India.


P.S.: My 100th Post could be the longest one coming

Last edited by bharanidharang : 27th May 2008 at 18:25.
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Old 27th May 2008, 20:13   #98
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Guys we will be in same boat like this unless we get some new blood in to out political systems and the Law. Till that its no point in shouting at these happenings.

We have reservations, we have castes and whatever can make a split among us. And this WILL be maintained by politicians to make sure he get his share of vote. Who do you think have guts to kill or even hurt this vote milking cows.

Right said, education cess had so far much little implication than we thought. May be will show some results in long term. No clue.

Fuel cess is the real stupid thing I say. If govt start targeting and taxing different group of people than who actually use, then they will have no control on the usage pattern. Usage of fuel will be growing and tax payers will end up paying more and more.

I am ready to pay Fuel tax, IF govt can issue me some ID which can be used to get subsidized fuel of say atleast 25% of what I paid as tax. Will they do?

I guess this govt has understood the cycle of life in a different way. Its trying to see that the group in the lower side of the cycle to come up and the tax payers on top to go down. So taxing to the full extent. I just remember the old movies where the "villian" group is taking "its" portion from the hard earned coolie Is there a "Hero" out here who can save us in this real world?


What is accountability? Ha ha ha ha.. You see the results in the financial times or economical times, and you will see that all oil companies post good or decent results to get investors. But when it comes to taxing people, then they start putting banners saying they are in loss.

Seeing the trends in automobiles, as long as govt wakes up and start charging those Diesel fellows (atleast the diesel used for commercial purpose like travels, cars owned by company, etc) extra the tax collection will keep goin gup and up in the ladder. Even if the crude falls down to south of 80$...
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Old 27th May 2008, 22:08   #99
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Was watching NDTV sometime back and looked like that the NDTV is very concerned about govt subsidizing the petrol......

Looks like the petroleum ministry is looking at other options, finance ministry is not budging on removing the taxes on the fuel.....i think their would be a hike of about 5 bucks max for now but will slowly and surely it will go to 70 and cross it too....
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Old 27th May 2008, 22:45   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lohithrao View Post
Was watching NDTV sometime back and looked like that the NDTV is very concerned about govt subsidizing the petrol......

Looks like the petroleum ministry is looking at other options, finance ministry is not budging on removing the taxes on the fuel.....i think their would be a hike of about 5 bucks max for now but will slowly and surely it will go to 70 and cross it too....
It will eventually touching more than 70rs/ltr of petrol. No steps would be taken to sell unsubsidized diesel to private diesel users.

Its turning ugly now.
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Old 27th May 2008, 22:51   #101
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Originally Posted by redfire View Post
Today morning when I went to fill (the petrol bunk I am going for last 8 years), guys told me that from June 1st onwards there will be only Speed petrol and the ordinary will be stopped. And the Speed will be charged more (now it is Rs. 50 p/l) regardless what Govt. decides as basic price. The normal petrol will be supplied only when the price hike is made sufficient to petrol companies. Is it that they are going their own way?
Yes looks like they are having their own way. Now in Vadodara, they had stopped giving new LPG domestic gas cylinders connections. Well they are putting pressure on life necessary comodity. Already there was a hell lot of black market for the selling domestic cylinders to car users.

This has just created more trouble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suvi View Post
'Govt mulling oil cess on income tax' -India Business-Business-The Times of India

This will hurt the tax payer a lot. i favour raising petrol prices compared to this. the guy who consumes petrol/diesel more should pay more. not the guy who pays his tax honestly.
The income tax payer is always at loss in India. My father is regular tax payer and we simply cant afford the high petrol cost.
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Old 27th May 2008, 22:59   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjothi View Post
Guys we will be in same boat like this unless we get some new blood in to out political systems and the Law. Till that its no point in shouting at these happenings.

We have reservations, we have castes and whatever can make a split among us. And this WILL be maintained by politicians to make sure he get his share of vote. Who do you think have guts to kill or even hurt this vote milking cows.

Right said, education cess had so far much little implication than we thought. May be will show some results in long term. No clue.

Fuel cess is the real stupid thing I say. If govt start targeting and taxing different group of people than who actually use, then they will have no control on the usage pattern. Usage of fuel will be growing and tax payers will end up paying more and more.

I am ready to pay Fuel tax, IF govt can issue me some ID which can be used to get subsidized fuel of say atleast 25% of what I paid as tax. Will they do?

I guess this govt has understood the cycle of life in a different way. Its trying to see that the group in the lower side of the cycle to come up and the tax payers on top to go down. So taxing to the full extent. I just remember the old movies where the "villian" group is taking "its" portion from the hard earned coolie Is there a "Hero" out here who can save us in this real world?


What is accountability? Ha ha ha ha.. You see the results in the financial times or economical times, and you will see that all oil companies post good or decent results to get investors. But when it comes to taxing people, then they start putting banners saying they are in loss.

Seeing the trends in automobiles, as long as govt wakes up and start charging those Diesel fellows (atleast the diesel used for commercial purpose like travels, cars owned by company, etc) extra the tax collection will keep goin gup and up in the ladder. Even if the crude falls down to south of 80$...

Well written. I was searching for similar words.
The taxation on fuel should be reduced for the regular and honest tax payers. But its not possible because it is developing country. There wont be anyone to rescue us. Looks like in short terms we will have violent protests. Life essential commodities are also becoming very expenisve. Domestic LPG cylinders are sold to car owners and those who are having agencies are with contacts.

In the real sceanario, the situation is much bad that what it looks on the surface. This problem is like the tip of the iceberg. The real stuff is there in below.
Reducing taxation on fuel rather than adding taxes and then subsidizing is the best thing to do. Private diesel car/MUV owners should be charged unsubsidized cost of diesel.
This will definately lessen the burden. I really wonder if at all the oil companies are going into losses. I am a resident of Vadoara where there is IOC refinery and our neighbours ( actually 4 of them are with IOC ) and I know that their finincail condition is not as bad as they are trying to show to us and consequently ask for more price.
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