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Old 3rd June 2008, 15:48   #16
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CSE is a an avowed opponent of the automobile industry. As per Sunita Narain, she is getting nightmares just thinking about the launch of the NANO. They are the ones who created a great hallaballoo about pestcides in cold drinks. They however have never gone after the gov for providing drinking water which unless purified makes you sick or for the pathetic condition of the public transport system or the poor quality fuel dispensed by public sector oil marketing companies.They like to portray themselves as davids fighting for the rights of "aam junta" against the polluting industrial goliaths. So they are not averse to twisting facts if the same suits them.
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Old 3rd June 2008, 16:18   #17
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An interesting part from the related article on Page 9

Quote:
The increase in carbon dioxide emissions in Delhi from two-wheelers and cars, CSE said, emerged out of the type of technology being used, unbridled growth in sheer number of vehicles on road and increase in travel distances.
Interestingly, it found that public transport emitted only 20% of the CO2 load from transport sector in Delhi..
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Old 3rd June 2008, 16:21   #18
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CSE is a tendency to beat their chests a bit too much. I take those results with a pinch of salt while not ignoring the seriousness of such situations.

About what DKG was saying , CO2 is a major greenhouse gas. Spewing less Pb and CO is very good but how do we say its ok for that to be offset by emitting more greenhouse gases ?
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Old 3rd June 2008, 16:25   #19
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Kindly go through the press release of CSE and then blame CSE.

CSE made its observations or whatever it may be based on data collected by ARAI, which it has obtained under RTI act.

CSE has not done any tests on its OWN

The conclusions are based on tests done by ARAI.

It appears all vehicle manufacturers have to submit to govt the official milage of the new models.

Govt has REFUSED to divulge this information when the same was requested under RTI act by CSE

Disturbed by the CO2 trends, CSE made efforts to obtain official fuel economy data for car models that are recorded at the time of certification of new vehicles.

“But we were appalled to discover that this crucial information is not available even under the Right to Information Act. At a time when the country is going bankrupt on account of crippling crude oil prices, fuel economy data of cars (in km/litre) is held as trade secret,”
says Roychowdhury:

“But such data are routinely published in other countries to help consumers select fuel efficient vehicles and help governments to set up fuel economy standards.”

Press Release :Support the BRT Overwhelmingly
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Old 3rd June 2008, 18:49   #20
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You know what I think is another reason for increased CO2 and lower fuel economy? The average commuting speed has gone down! Its but obvious with our traffic conditions deteriorating that cars will take a longer time to travel the same distance and hence, consume more fuel / pollute more.
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Old 3rd June 2008, 19:14   #21
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I dont belive this one bit at all. If there's more CO2 its because of efficient CO and SO2 elimination by the cat cons and more efficient engines, alongwith the phasing out of leaded petrol and the introduction of lower-sulphur diesel.
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Old 3rd June 2008, 20:07   #22
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IMO the debate is futile. We as a race have destroyed our world and the environment probably more than any known natural cause or any known living organism on this planet. As we continue to see the deterioration we still fail to correct it since we know that correcting it will probably hinder progress(whatever that means). Vehicular pollution is just one source. There are many more sources unaccounted for.
We have begun a process that cannot be stopped, its a chain reaction and we are now(IMO) beyond the point of no return. Optimism and pessimism has no role to play any more since we cannot stop what we have started - the destruction of this earth for economic progress - its a rat race that we all wish to win.
Technology has not kept pace with the rate of destruction. Therefore it gets worse. Coming back to auto pollution. We are now forced than ever before to look for alternative sources and technologies to combat rising costs of fuel and rising pollution. How much time do we have? even the experts cannot predict and their opinions vary. The rate of melting of the polar ice caps as predicted by scientists and experts seems to change every year. We do not need scientific proof and papers for everything. Just drive around India and you can see the destruction and degradation on in full swing. Similarly it is happening worldwide. So cheers to all of us.
The debate will continue and so will the degradation and destruction.
It is said and i have read that the earth has the capability to heal itself. I read that the ozone layer too repairs itself give the time and the right conditions.
So the question is - can we stop all our destructive activities for 1 week. Can all the cars the world over be grounded for a week. Can the industries be asked to stop polluting for one week. Can the refineries stop flaring for 1 week. Can the planes stop flying for 1 week. I guess that will give a respite to the earth and may help. MOre than ever we will be forced to try such new undocumented unsupported radical ways to save the earth and our existence in the future.
So while we debate this, we need to ask ourselves - are you ready to give up your car or your destructive ways and sacrifice your luxuries for the sake of this earth. If you cant, and I cant then we are just wasting out time in debates.
Let the fun & games continue.
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Old 3rd June 2008, 21:08   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandeep_K_Ram View Post
CO2 is a major greenhouse gas. Spewing less Pb and CO is very good but how do we say its ok for that to be offset by emitting more greenhouse gases ?

If you recall a certain refrigerant gas was causing holes in the ozone layer and through government efforts the world over they have switched to a non harmful gas. CO2 is a problem, but lead and CO were a greater hazard.

Now car companies have introduced hybrid vehicles that reduce the consumption of fuel for the power required through a combo of electricity and fuel generated kinetic power. Honda's hybrid will be introduced in India this month. Already the western world has taken to hybrids big time. Next you will see fuel cell cars which are driven by liquid hydrogen combustion of which only water is an output.

So while the industry has reduced lead and CO emission, now they are slowly being forced to develop tech that will reduce CO2 generation. Its pretty close and in the next few years you will see comercially available vehicles with zero pollution.

In the meantime we can plant more trees

Some other initiatives by auto companies:

Water based paints, not as harsh on the environment during application. Volvo does it, I'm sure others have joined in too

Next recyclability of components is a huge initiative. You are taxing Earth's resources less that way. A very large portion of modern automobiles is recyclable. So responsible consumption is slowly but surely coming our way.

Socially many initiatives like car pooling, increased usage of public transport, and working from home are initiatives being taken

Last edited by DKG : 3rd June 2008 at 21:17.
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Old 3rd June 2008, 21:18   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post

In the meantime we can plant more trees
Please explain how you will plant a 'tree'. To the best of my knowledge a tree is a fully grown version of a sapling.
You cannot replace a tree with a sapling and call it 'planting trees'. A tree takes decades to grow. Especially the trees that we are chopping in the forests have grown over hundreds of years. Who are we fooling, but ourselves.

What about the time that goes in between the time of planting a sapling to a fully grown tree. Are there any statistics available to account for the damage that will escalate in the environment during the decades that will pass in between sapling - tree.

Last edited by jaysmokesleaves : 3rd June 2008 at 21:21.
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Old 3rd June 2008, 21:26   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
Please explain how you will plant a 'tree'.
You cannot replace a tree with a sapling and call it 'planting trees'. A tree takes decades to grow. Especially the trees that we are chopping in the forests have grown over hundreds of years. Who are we fooling, but ourselves.

What about the time that goes in between the time of planting a sapling to a fully grown tree. Are there any statistics available to account for the damage that will escelate in the environment during the decades that will pass in between.
I have done my bit of eliminating paper use in my office. All our work is online, including daily review, presentations etc. So reduce consumption of paper and keep planting trees. I don't advocate cutting of forests but given our social ills we have to find alternatives. At the same time I want to see 12 cylinder Ferraris around me too hopefully environmentally friendly Ferraris

Ultimately we have to find a balance.

Interestingly countries like New Zealand actually calculate your rental car's emission and give you a statement at the end of your car/bike hire to educate you as to how much by way of pollutants you have added. That's the way to go. They let you drive around their country as tourists as they need your dollars for their wellbeing but as they value their environment they are also trying to politely educate you about the harm your holiday travel does.

Last edited by DKG : 3rd June 2008 at 21:30.
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