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Old 3rd June 2008, 10:35   #1
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Default Newer cars spew more CO2 than old

The report is in the front page of TOI Bangalore edition.
It's really shocking.. What the use of Bharath stages and Euro norms?


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Newer cars spew more CO2 than old

CSE Analysis Says Vehicles Post-2005 Pollute More

TIMES NEWS NETWORK



New Delhi: In a complete reversal of international trends, new cars in India are spewing more greenhouse gasses than older models, pushing up emissions in Delhi alone by 72% in five years (2002-07), the Centre for Science and Environment said on Monday, releasing its analysis of emissions data accessed from the Automotive Research Association of India.
Emissions from two-wheelers in the same period, in comparison, have gone up by 61%, the analysis said.
For the consumer, this might be a pointer to deteriorating fuel efficiency of new cars as well — emissions of carbondioxide are closely linked to the fuel efficiency of vehicles.
The ARAI had clubbed data of vehicles of different periods that CSE accessed. The cars and two-wheelers had been classified into groups ranging from 1991-96, 1996-2000, post 2000 and post 2005.
The post 2000 petrol cars, with engine size more than 1,400 cc, emit 143 gm/km of CO2. In comparison, post 2005 models of same engine size emit 173 gm/km, CSE said. Extrapolating the emission statistics for fuel efficiency, CSE said the figures implied that fuel economy had dropped in these cars from 16 km/litre to 13 km/litre.
But Anumita Roychowdhury, of CSE’s Right to Clean Air Campaign, said, ‘‘This data is extrapolation... The ministry of surface transport has refused to share actual data.’’
Auto manufacturers share fuel economy data for car models at the time of certification of new vehicles with the government. ‘‘But the ministry withheld this information under the Right to Information Act, calling it of commercial importance and third party information. This data is routinely published in other countries to help consumers select fuel efficient vehicles and help governments set up fuel economy standards,’’ she added.
‘‘At a time when we are talking of an oil crisis, it is callous for the government and industry to not even share data on fuel efficiency with the public,” said Roychowdhury. SUVs worst polluters: CSE
New Delhi: Anumita Roychowdhury, of CSE’s Right to Clean Air Campaign, says: “Government and industry data on heat trapping CO 2 emissions that directly depend on the amount of fuel burnt, show oil guzzling vehicles are hitting road.”
A pointer to why the industry and ministry are fighting shy could lie in the figures CSE got out of ARAI. Diesel car models with engine size less than 1,600 cc and produced between 1996 and 2000, the NGO found, emit 129 gm/km but comparable post-2005 models emits 149 gm/km. Using similar mathematical models, it extrapolated that the fuel economy in this class had dropped from 20 km/litre to 18 km/litre.
SUVs, predictably, came out worst polluters. SUV models of 1996-2000 with engine size less than 3,000 cc emitted 189 gm/- km, while post-2000 models emitted 229 gm/km and post-2005 models emitted 256 gm/km. The fuel economy of SUVs had dropped from 14 km/litre in 1996-2000 models to 10 km/litre in post 2005 models: the guzzlers were consuming the equivalent of almost two small cars.
The increase in CO 2 emissions, CSE said, emerged out of type of technology used, unbridled growth in number of vehicles on road.



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Old 3rd June 2008, 10:58   #2
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Is it also to do with better CO to CO2 conversion?
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Old 3rd June 2008, 11:35   #3
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I am bit doubtful of the authenticity of these 'extrapolated' figures. Can't a simple test on today's cars give the exact CO2 gm/km emitted?

Somehow I find it hard to believe that a modern 2007 car is more polluting than a 2000 one!
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Old 3rd June 2008, 11:49   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
I am bit doubtful of the authenticity of these 'extrapolated' figures. Can't a simple test on today's cars give the exact CO2 gm/km emitted?

Somehow I find it hard to believe that a modern 2007 car is more polluting than a 2000 one!
The extrapolation is for fuel efficiency. The emission results are from tests.
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Old 3rd June 2008, 12:11   #5
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I've always taken such news releases by this "CSE" with a pinch a of salt.
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Old 3rd June 2008, 12:43   #6
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or it may be due to quality of fuel a major factor too..
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Old 3rd June 2008, 12:47   #7
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Older cars spewed more Carbon monoxide (aka poison)and lead (aka poison) and less Carbon dioxide (not as harmful)

Whereas new cars spew less Carbon monoxide (less poison) no lead and more carbon dioxide (less harmful)

Where's the debate?

FYI the new Accord actually exhales cleaner air than the air it injests in heavy traffic jams!!! You actually clean the air in polluted cities while driving the advanced modern cars.

The next step in reducing even the CO2 emissions is to use hybrid vehicles which reduce fuel burnt per km and eventually we'll have fuel cell cars that emit water vapor.

Last edited by DKG : 3rd June 2008 at 12:59.
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Old 3rd June 2008, 12:59   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post

FYI the new Accord actually exhales cleaner air than the air it injests in heavy traffic jams!!! You actually clean the air in polluted cities while driving the advanced modern cars.
I agree about reduced CO,Pb at some cost of CO2.
However, what's this about Accord cleaning the air!!!

Can you share some data to support this?

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Old 3rd June 2008, 13:07   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
I agree about reduced CO,Pb at some cost of CO2.
However, what's this about Accord cleaning the air!!!

Can you share some data to support this?
Honda had pioneered emission tech with their Ultra Low Emission Vehicle or ULEV which at the time exceeded the next generation California emission norms. Recently a senior Honda Siel official indicated to me that the new Accord exceeds even the ULEV standards. To illustrate his statement he explained that in a typical traffic jam where you have a huge variety of polluting vehicles stuck together, the ambient air is severely compromised and highly toxic and harmful. An Accord stuck in such traffic will intake such air but owning to its superior air intake cleaners, clean burn engine, and exhaust system the output or exhaust is actually cleaner with lower monoxide emissions and other particulates

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Old 3rd June 2008, 13:09   #10
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I'am not sure about the article given in TOI today. As far as the Car manufacturers are concerened, they test the vehicle before launch in ARAI and get it certified for the emission. How come the newspaper is reporting this? Don't they know about this ? If the vehicles are emitting more co2, then it should be caught in ARAI itself and they should never allow the vehicle to pass the homologation / emission tests that are carried out for all the cars.
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Old 3rd June 2008, 13:13   #11
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reading many of the members posts Im inclined to believe this is merely a sensation seeking piece of journalism.
if it is in fact, true, then what is the value of Euro 1 , Euro 2, BS 2, BS 3 compliance, in all these new vehicles?
Also, it doesnt seem possible that our car manufacturers would actually create such trouble for themselves by making vehicles which pollute more.
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Old 3rd June 2008, 13:22   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snaronikar View Post
I'am not sure about the article given in TOI today. As far as the Car manufacturers are concerened, they test the vehicle before launch in ARAI and get it certified for the emission. How come the newspaper is reporting this? Don't they know about this ? If the vehicles are emitting more co2, then it should be caught in ARAI itself and they should never allow the vehicle to pass the homologation / emission tests that are carried out for all the cars.
I don't think Co2 is yet classified as a pollutant. Looking at California to enact a law in a couple of years for it to happen.
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Old 3rd June 2008, 13:24   #13
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The benefit of advanced electronic engine management systems and catalytic converters is to ensure lean burn (efficient burning of fossil fuels) engines and oxidation of harmful monoxides. Obviously CO2 output will be higher but that's much better than the high monoxide content in exhaust gases of cars of yesteryear. Obviously its myopic journalism or sensationalism to make some money! Its utter nonsense to claim modern cars pollute more than older cars.

With the governments regulating fuel, and we can be proud of the fact that India switched to unleaded early and started demanding stringent emission standards from manufacturers, unleaded fuels have done away with another deadly contaminant namely lead.

As a result of present and proposed government emission regulations almost all the major manufacturers are working relentlessly on reducing their dependence on fossil fuels. Unfortunately battery technology hasn't developed fast enough for a full switch to electric but fuel cell engines using liquid hydrogen is a strong option being considered. The emission in such an automobile is water vapour.

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Old 3rd June 2008, 13:39   #14
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Originally Posted by Mr.Bangalore View Post
or it may be due to quality of fuel a major factor too..
Right on! I too think that its the quality of fuel thats going down over the years, hence more co2. cheers:

Here is another theory maybe the A.S.S isnt doing that good of a job nowdays as compared to the good old days when they had fewer cars
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Old 3rd June 2008, 13:50   #15
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CO2 is not yet classified as a pollutant. It is however considered a "villainous" gas after the famous movie "The Inconvenient Truth" portrayed it as the root cause of global warming. It is said to be a greenhouse gas and CSE being the champion of "better life" has delivered another contentious statement after its attempt to close down cola companies failed.
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