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Old 22nd February 2013, 01:46   #121
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Default re: Speed 97 and high RON petrol discussion thread

RTO pump is the only pump in town that keeps it ever
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Old 22nd February 2013, 06:41   #122
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Default re: Speed 97 and high RON petrol discussion thread

I am not sure why people will use 97 octane fuel on their car...unless it is recommended by the car manufacturer.Various studies have been done here in the west have shown consistently that using fuel with higher octane i.e 93,97,103 etc is just a waste for engines that do not require.Follow the manufacturer recommendations.
I dont use 97 nor 103 in my F430 nor AMG SL 55..both the cars require 93 octane as per manufacturer.and on the other hand my subaru and jeep runs on 87 and 89 as recommended.
Octane rating is for the engine knock.The octane rating of gasoline tells you how much the fuel can be compressed before it spontaneously ignites. When gas ignites by compression rather than because of the spark from the spark plug, it causes knocking in the engine. Knocking can damage an engine, so it is not something you want to have happening. Lower-octane gas (like "regular" 87-octane gasoline) can handle the least amount of compression before igniting.
The compression ratio of your engine determines the octane rating of the gas you must use in the car. One way to increase the horsepower of an engine of a given displacement is to increase its compression ratio. So a "high-performance engine" has a higher compression ratio and requires higher-octane fuel. The advantage of a high compression ratio is that it gives your engine a higher horsepower rating for a given engine weight -- that is what makes the engine "high performance." The disadvantage is that the gasoline for your engine costs more.
So if your car does not require high compression to ignite then it is like wasting your hard earned money to use high octane gasoline..e.g driving your car with full A/C and all the windows are down....
just my 2 cents...
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Old 22nd February 2013, 12:43   #123
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Default re: Speed 97 and high RON petrol discussion thread

For starters the way the octane number is displayed in the USA is different from how it's displayed here. In India the pumps display the RON number. In the USA the pumps display the average of the RON + MON number, which is lower than the RON number.

Secondly a lot of us own cars that DO require 98 octane (RON) to run optimally, which would be 93 octane in the USA.

Lastly, in India where fuel adulteration is so rampant, I have been informed by someone with contacts in the petroleum ministry that the "least adulterated" fuel of all the various petrol companies is Bharat Petroleum, the makers of Speed and Speed 97 fuel, so some people may be willing to pay a premium just to get less adulterated fuel.

P.S. Our only option besides 97 RON is 91 RON (86 in the USA). Run your F430 on 86 octane (if it's even available there) and you'll understand just how badly our cars run on "regular" petrol here!

Last edited by kbk_75 : 22nd February 2013 at 12:46.
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Old 23rd May 2013, 12:47   #124
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Default Re: Speed 97 and high RON petrol discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRAUMASURG View Post
I am not sure why people will use 97 octane fuel on their car...unless it is recommended by the car manufacturer.Various studies have been done here in the west have shown consistently that using fuel with higher octane i.e 93,97,103 etc is just a waste for engines that do not require.Follow the manufacturer recommendations.
I think you are confusing manufacturer minumum specifications for fuel with recomendations.
If you spoke the manufacturers they would recomend using the highest fuel RON rating avliable this is for one reason, maintaining the power as designed of the engine.

You mention your 430 if ferrari wanted you to use 93 why would ferrari work with shell to develop a friction reducing 99 fuel blend? (at some point in the next few years this should hit India)

IF and only IF your car has a knock sensor and the ECU the ability to adjust the spark timing suffeiently will your car take advantage of better fuel. Though even if it couldnt, the better burn control of a higher rated fuel would benifit the engine by reduceing stress on the internals and you would notice this as quieter running.

Most modern cars sold today in europe, japan and america, have these features. I'm not so sure about the mahindra and tata indian derived engines. If you have a modern car you are doing your car a deservice by putting regular fuel into it.
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Old 27th May 2013, 01:08   #125
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Default Re: Speed 97 and high RON petrol discussion thread

Did try out 97 Octane few times on my CBR 250. Performance wise, I don't think there is much improvement but the engine is now a lot smoother.

I have access to chassis dyno, and have talked to the manager about a test on 500 bullet EFI with regular Vs 97 Octane fuel. Once the test is finished, I will put up the results here.

Last edited by ecenandu : 27th May 2013 at 01:09.
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Old 27th May 2013, 04:44   #126
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Default Re: Speed 97 and high RON petrol discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRAUMASURG View Post
Octane rating is for the engine knock.The octane rating of gasoline tells you how much the fuel can be compressed before it spontaneously ignites. When gas ignites by compression rather than because of the spark from the spark plug, it causes knocking in the engine. ...
Knocking does not happen because the fuel ignites before the spark, it spontaneously ignites but only after the spark plug has fired and the fuel close to the spark plug starts burning , increasing the temperature and pressure inside the cylinder, the remaining fuel to which the flame front has not yet reached, spontaneously ignites. What you are talking about is pre-ignition, totally different story.
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Old 3rd June 2013, 12:17   #127
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Default Re: Speed 97 and high RON petrol discussion thread

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Originally Posted by ecenandu View Post
Did try out 97 Octane few times on my CBR 250. Performance wise, I don't think there is much improvement but the engine is now a lot smoother.

I have access to chassis dyno, and have talked to the manager about a test on 500 bullet EFI with regular Vs 97 Octane fuel. Once the test is finished, I will put up the results here.
You will not notice any change i suspect in engine power as your engine probably wont be able to adjust the engine spark timing. Most basic bikes are like this. You will definately see smoother running of the engine and probably less misfire. You will get better life out of your engine internal, however you probably wont have any more power or go any faster.

NOTE : If you were to be able to gurantee that you were on 97 all the time then you could adjust the spark timing manually and permenatly, then you could take advantage of it.
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Old 3rd June 2013, 12:21   #128
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Default Re: Speed 97 and high RON petrol discussion thread

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Originally Posted by Born2Slow View Post
Knocking does not happen because the fuel ignites before the spark, it spontaneously ignites but only after the spark plug has fired and the fuel close to the spark plug starts burning , increasing the temperature and pressure inside the cylinder, the remaining fuel to which the flame front has not yet reached, spontaneously ignites. What you are talking about is pre-ignition, totally different story.
You are actually both correct, knocking, pre-ignition, pinking waht every you want to call it it related directly to the RON or Octane rating (again measured diffently but the same thing) if a fuel has a low rating then exactly as you say it will igntite "badly" ie without a controlled flame front across the cylinder HOWEVER it will also be more liable to ignite under pressure as the fuel is less stable.

Thus: both pre ignition (before spark) and poor burn (after spark) are both correlated to low fuel octane.

Your both correct!
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Old 29th October 2013, 19:49   #129
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Default Re: Speed 97 and high RON petrol discussion thread

So is 97 Octane fuel available in Goa? Does anyone here use octane boosters for their cars and is there a noticeable difference in performance?
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Old 30th October 2013, 10:12   #130
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Default Re: Speed 97 and high RON petrol discussion thread

Essentially the ECU tries for maximum advance just short of knocking. This gives maximum power. Most engines may not benefit from a higher octane, since either they do not have a high enough compression, or rev high enough.
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Old 30th October 2013, 11:56   #131
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Default Re: Speed 97 and high RON petrol discussion thread

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Essentially the ECU tries for maximum advance just short of knocking. This gives maximum power. Most engines may not benefit from a higher octane, since either they do not have a high enough compression, or rev high enough.
That's not really my question, my question is if anyone has used octane boosters in cars that have a compression ratio high enough to extract benefit from higher octane rating, and whether that has given them increased performance/FE or not.

I am pretty sure Goa does not have 97 octane fuel available at any pump, can anyone comment on this? I know we have our share of supercars, do they all use 91 Octane?
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Old 30th October 2013, 13:35   #132
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Default Re: Speed 97 and high RON petrol discussion thread

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Originally Posted by BMWlover View Post
I am pretty sure Goa does not have 97 octane fuel available at any pump, can anyone comment on this? I know we have our share of supercars, do they all use 91 Octane?
In most cases the ECU just reduces the Advance and the car can cope, albeit will slightly reduced performance. I remember back in mid 1970's when we had carbs, my Ford Escort service manual recommended 10 btdc for 4* patrol and 6 for 3* petrol.
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Old 8th April 2016, 12:39   #133
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Default Re: Speed 97 and high RON petrol discussion thread

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Originally Posted by kbk_75 View Post
For starters the way the octane number is displayed in the USA is different from how it's displayed here. In India the pumps display the RON number. In the USA the pumps display the average of the RON + MON number, which is lower than the RON number.

Secondly a lot of us own cars that DO require 98 octane (RON) to run optimally, which would be 93 octane in the USA.

Lastly, in India where fuel adulteration is so rampant, I have been informed by someone with contacts in the petroleum ministry that the "least adulterated" fuel of all the various petrol companies is Bharat Petroleum, the makers of Speed and Speed 97 fuel, so some people may be willing to pay a premium just to get less adulterated fuel.

P.S. Our only option besides 97 RON is 91 RON (86 in the USA). Run your F430 on 86 octane (if it's even available there) and you'll understand just how badly our cars run on "regular" petrol here!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris C View Post
I think you are confusing manufacturer minumum specifications for fuel with recomendations.
If you spoke the manufacturers they would recomend using the highest fuel RON rating avliable this is for one reason, maintaining the power as designed of the engine.

You mention your 430 if ferrari wanted you to use 93 why would ferrari work with shell to develop a friction reducing 99 fuel blend? (at some point in the next few years this should hit India)

IF and only IF your car has a knock sensor and the ECU the ability to adjust the spark timing suffeiently will your car take advantage of better fuel. Though even if it couldnt, the better burn control of a higher rated fuel would benifit the engine by reduceing stress on the internals and you would notice this as quieter running.

Most modern cars sold today in europe, japan and america, have these features. I'm not so sure about the mahindra and tata indian derived engines. If you have a modern car you are doing your car a deservice by putting regular fuel into it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris C View Post
You are actually both correct, knocking, pre-ignition, pinking waht every you want to call it it related directly to the RON or Octane rating (again measured diffently but the same thing) if a fuel has a low rating then exactly as you say it will igntite "badly" ie without a controlled flame front across the cylinder HOWEVER it will also be more liable to ignite under pressure as the fuel is less stable.

Thus: both pre ignition (before spark) and poor burn (after spark) are both correlated to low fuel octane.

Your both correct!
Wow...

What an interesting thread. Thanks for the gyaan people.

Please do update me!
What is the current state of Indian fuel?
What RON is standard Power/Speed/Unleaded ?
How does that compare to USA and EU "Octane Rating Standards"

I am getting the Ecosport with the Ecoboost engine. It is a fairly high compression turbo engine. Post 1000km, I will be superchipping her to 156 bhp & 250 NM.
Superchips recommends premium high octane fuel.
I have a company account unfortunately at a Power Petrol Pump - I assume that is 91 RON ? But what is that in EU / USA standards ?

Higher Octane fuel will keep my stressed and chipped engine cooler and happier I assume ?

A quote from another forum -
"I downloaded the 2014 Fiesta owner's manual from owner.ford.com and read this:

Octane Recommendations

1.0L and 1.6L EcoBoost Engines
Regular unleaded gasoline with a pump
(R+M)/2 octane rating of 87 is
recommended. Some fuel stations offer
fuels posted as regular with an octane
rating below 87, particularly in high altitude
areas. Fuels with octane levels below 87
are not recommended. Premium fuel will
provide improved performance and is
recommended for severe duty usage such
as trailer tow."

Therefore I am now looking for the best Octane Boosters in the market!
Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated!
I do rev hard and I need to keep my engine happy!

A quote from superchips "The car was 100% stock configuration, run on normal UK fuel (95RON). These cars respond better to 98RON+ premium fuel in the UK and we always advise our customers to use this."
UK Fuel 95 RON = ? Indian Fuel RON ?!?

I will be doing dyno runs before and after the remap and maybe even before and after the octane boosters.

Ideally, I would love to run the octane boosters from day 1.
My car should be delivered within the next 5 days.

Any gyaan on the ford ecoboost's engine/ecu setup etc will be highly appreciated!
Thanks a ton gentlemen!

Last edited by fry : 8th April 2016 at 13:06. Reason: Words
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Old 8th April 2016, 13:03   #134
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Default Re: Speed 97 and high RON petrol discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by fry View Post
I am getting the Ecosport with the Ecoboost engine. It is a fairly high compression turbo engine. Post 1000km, I will be superchipping her to 156 bhp &
Superchips recommends premium high octane fuel.

Higher Octane fuel will keep my stressed and chipped engine cooler and happier I assume ?

A quote from another forum -
"I downloaded the 2014 Fiesta owner's manual from owner.ford.com and read this:

Octane Recommendations

1.0L and 1.6L EcoBoost Engines
Regular unleaded gasoline with a pump
(R+M)/2 octane rating of 87 is
recommended.

Therefore I am now looking for the best Octane Boosters in the market!
Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated!
I do rev hard and I need to keep my engine happy!

Any gyaan on the ford ecoboost's engine/ecu setup etc will be highly appreciated!
Thanks a ton gentlemen!
I have a 1.6L ecoboost in my Volvo. It was 180HP from factory and I remapped it to 200HP via the manufacturer sanctioned Polestar map.

I have tried speed 97 (there is only one pump in bangalore) once and to be honest didn't notice that big a difference over the normal 91 octane Shell VPower. Good quality 91 octane should be fine. Don't bother with octane boosters.
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Old 8th April 2016, 13:18   #135
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Default Re: Speed 97 and high RON petrol discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by fry View Post
Wow...

What an interesting thread. Thanks for the gyaan people.

Please do update me!
What is the current state of Indian fuel?
What RON is standard Power/Speed/Unleaded ?
How does that compare to USA and EU "Octane Rating Standards"...

...Any gyaan on the ford ecoboost's engine/ecu setup etc will be highly appreciated!
Thanks a ton gentlemen!
The closest thing we have to UK 95RON is Speed 97. Regular Indian Petrol is supposedly 91RON if I'm not mistaken. This number cannot be compared to USA Octane numbers (in the USA our regular Petrol would be classified as 86 octane)

I can't speak for anybody else but both my cars run infinitely better, and exclusively on, Speed 97. One has a high compression NA V8 and the other a turbo 1.6 4. If anything the turbo'd 4 pot runs even better than the V8 on Speed 97, which always baffles me, but there you have it.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 11th June 2017 at 11:42. Reason: Trimming quoted post for improved readability :)
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