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Old 9th June 2008, 23:10   #1
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Default Mitsubishi and Yamaha---two back-benchers from Japan.

Mitsubishi and Yamaha. A very formidable and well known brands overseas in their respective fields of 4-wheelers and 2-wheelers. But for some reason, these famous Japanese marques haven't tasted any success in Indian market.

Mitsu just allowed Honda and Toyota a free run. Shame that in spite of diesel advantage ( Lancer ) Mitsu hasn't been even half as successful as Honda who only has petrol offerings for City.

Yamaha launched RD 350 which was a missile far ahead of its time. Then they saw some success with RX 100 but even that was short lived. Hero Honda's CD 100 just steamrolled opposition. But then CD 100 also vanquished Suzuki AX 100 and Bajaj Kawasaki's KB 100, but these two companies Bajaj and TVS eveolved with time and today they are challenging Hero Honda itself. But Yamaha? After RX100 it dabbled into some 4-stroke econo bikes which people just did not associate with Yamaha brand ( after seeing RD 350 and Rx 100 ).

One made overpowered motorcycles ahead of its time and the other made underpowered cars. The way these two Japanese auto majors have been doing business in India, it seems as though they were dragged on to Indian soil reluctantly by some Government authorities and just about to keep their licenses to manufacture ticking, they soft pedal India operations.

Yamaha is all set to launch R15 now. This could be its second coming. Now it's Mitsu's turn to launch some B and C segment econo diesel cars. That's where action is, in India. Not in 300 BHP Evo which will have very few takers anyway. In India, econo-hatches sell and luxury-barges sell but not hyper-performance sports cars. May be some rich TeamBHPians would pick up a few but that's about it.

But one thing is for sure. Next time we accuse Fiat of all the bunglings in India, let us know that it has the company of two Japanese. At least Fiat tried hard to make things work.
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Old 9th June 2008, 23:26   #2
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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
Yamaha is all set to launch R15 now. This could be its second coming. Now it's Mitsu's turn to launch some B and C segment econo diesel cars. That's where action is, in India. Not in 300 BHP Evo which will have very few takers anyway. In India, econo-hatches sell and luxury-barges sell but not hyper-performance sports cars.
Isn't this a contradiction?

The R15 is not in a segment where the action is! Its just a stepping stone. It wont bring Yamaha back into the sales game. But it will bring Yamaha back to performance tables it once ruled. And to survive in the long run, they have to utilise this and sell more volume bikes, and take the pulsars and unicorns head on.
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Old 10th June 2008, 03:03   #3
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Mitsubishi is not in full control of India ops. They give what HM ask for and get paid either as royalty or a bulk fee. Someone correct me if things have changed. So you really have to blame HM for poor product planning/pricing/whatever.

Its really a shame because they got off to a flying start with the circa '99 Lancer. Its was a highly desirable car in its time.
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Old 10th June 2008, 07:45   #4
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The name itself gives goosebumps to many. That's how much these brands command respect in many enthusiasts' minds.
Oh boy! A lancer was (even is) a pure race bred car. It was good as stock, could take various kinds of mods easily, was a stable piece of automobile. It is still one of the most capable but under rated cars available in the market.
The lancer Cedia which was launched later is also a great car which had almost everything it's earlier avtar possessed. Could've done well better in the market. Still, one of the good cars that can be bought below the price range of The big 10!

HM was too much in the wrong direction with both the cars in terms of marketing and positioning. Well, it's easy to say this but in this case the obvious-ness is a bit tad too pronounced and difficult to ignore.
Well, all will be/could be forgiven if HM is ready to wake up atleast on these late stages. This time, they have lots of mind/head grabbing products from Mitsu stable out of which, the latest Lancer could be the best firestarter. The earlier the rekindle happens, the better.

I'm just too excited writing about Mitsubishi. Let me rest my fingers a bit before the Yam episode.
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Old 10th June 2008, 08:13   #5
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Yamaha RD350 was not ahead of its time she came from 70's and launched in India in late 1983 which is quite late, you can say we indians were not ready for that powerful bike and the most important factor which still people keep on asking is fuel efficiency.
R15 is also not up to mark compared to other 150 cc single pod liqued cooled engines, lets see whats there in that bike for us as per the engine spec its not going to cross 17BHP compared to others 18-22 BHP in same class.
Still i am in love with Yamaha and respect their legendry products like RD350 and RXZ 5 speeder.You can they are talented back benchers and bad time in india ruined their talent.

Last edited by Ajaybiz : 10th June 2008 at 08:14.
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Old 10th June 2008, 10:51   #6
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Both the companies Yamaha and Mitsu are coping with bad marraiges in India! Look at mitsu, they should have launched their MIVEC range engines along with HONDA when they launched their VTEC in India, also read that Yamaha have developed the VVT-i range of engines for toyota- Gurus, please verify this statement. Their R&D and vehicles speak volumes about the companies. Very sad to see their likes struggling in India.
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Old 10th June 2008, 16:55   #7
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R15 is also not up to mark compared to other 150 cc single pod liqued cooled engines, lets see whats there in that bike for us as per the engine spec its not going to cross 17BHP compared to others 18-22 BHP in same class.
what other liquid cooled 150s??? and i don't know how you can say it isn't *upto the mark* before it comes on the roads and before you've obviously tested it. anyways, looking at the expected specs and pricing it's not going to compete with other 150s - it's going to be in the same market as the zmas and P220s.
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Old 10th June 2008, 18:23   #8
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The power output for the R15 is 15.75 bhp @ 8500 rpm and 14.4 Nm of torque @ 7000 rpm.

The torque is at a very high rpm, hopefully the 4 valve head should bail it out for the low end.
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Old 10th June 2008, 18:53   #9
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The power output for the R15 is 15.75 bhp @ 8500 rpm and 14.4 Nm of torque @ 7000 rpm.

The torque is at a very high rpm, hopefully the 4 valve head should bail it out for the low end.
where did you get this from?
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Old 10th June 2008, 18:59   #10
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Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
The power output for the R15 is 15.75 bhp @ 8500 rpm and 14.4 Nm of torque @ 7000 rpm.

15.75 bhp @ 8500 rpm? Please tell me you are joking!
14. 4 Nm @ 7000 rpm?

Thats very much lesser than a P180 DTSi, leave alone P200 or P200. A P180 produces 16.5 bhp and 15.22 Nm torque!

Hope this info is wrong!
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Old 10th June 2008, 19:44   #11
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I am a Yamaha lover (used RX 100 during graduation and RX135 once I started working).
The original RX100 was a great hit especially among students(atleast in Kerala - I need to mention this - since I see more number of RX100s and Bullets in Kerala than anywhere else). The main attractions were: (a) power (b) exhaust note (c) repairability/durability (d) traditional looks.
Then came the new emission rules and they were forced to launch RXG - which didn't do well. The RX135 was then launched, but didn't do well.
The only bike in that segment those days that was more powerful was Suzuki Shogun (it had issues with FE and braking).

The RX135 engine was more powerful and fuel efficient than the RX100 though it lacked the exhaust note (which made some people believe that it was less powerful). Also, it lacked the ruggedness of the RX100s. RX100s used to hold together well for many years. Competitors started launching better bikes (4 strokes) and that's where Yamaha failed.

I am yet to see a bike that matches the RX100 roar

Last edited by Jeep : 10th June 2008 at 19:45.
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Old 10th June 2008, 19:56   #12
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Originally Posted by Jeep View Post
I am a Yamaha lover (used RX 100 during graduation and RX135 once I started working).
The original RX100 was a great hit especially among students(atleast in Kerala - I need to mention this - since I see more number of RX100s and Bullets in Kerala than anywhere else). The main attractions were: (a) power (b) exhaust note (c) repairability/durability (d) traditional looks.
Then came the new emission rules and they were forced to launch RXG - which didn't do well. The RX135 was then launched, but didn't do well.
The only bike in that segment those days that was more powerful was Suzuki Shogun (it had issues with FE and braking).

The RX135 engine was more powerful and fuel efficient than the RX100 though it lacked the exhaust note (which made some people believe that it was less powerful). Also, it lacked the ruggedness of the RX100s. RX100s used to hold together well for many years. Competitors started launching better bikes (4 strokes) and that's where Yamaha failed.

I am yet to see a bike that matches the RX100 roar
actually there was a bike that was more powerful than the RX but below the shogun and that was the kb125.

anyway, it's funny to see people still talk about the power of these bikes because they are pretty underpowered when you look at what's available elsewhere. BTW interesting bit of info that i read in another forum is that some tuner in thailand (where i believe the RX is still going strong) managed to extract 42 bhp from a 135. now THAT'S powerful.
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Old 11th June 2008, 20:19   #13
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Well at least Mitsubishi or HM has heard it and announced a new unseen car for OCTOBER Launch
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Old 12th June 2008, 00:01   #14
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As far as Mitsubishi is concerned, they were real late in bringing the good products they have. Just look at Honda and how they had launched the Civic. If its HM that has not allowed to bring in new products, then its death bell for itself. Agreed that neither of the companies involved ( HM and Mitsubishi ) have a pool of resources like Honda or for that matter, even Suzuki, let alone Toyota.
They sitll have to time to sort out the things and as I heard from other thread that a new car is coming in October from HM, I hope that its a Lancer.

About yamaha: Huge and really huge promises at two auto expo and no new motor since the YBX days. The Gladiator motor is basically a heavily refurbished motor from YBX.


What I feel about Lancer : I feel that the lancer ( Lancer available with 1.5, 1.8 petrol and 2.0 diesel ) was one of the best looking cars of that time. Even by todays standards the looks of the car when it was launched are still great. Later giving vertical slotted chormed grille was not good. The original looks were excellent. Even today I feel that this car is one of the best. The only other cars of that era really lovable are Opel Astra and Peugeot 309.
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Old 12th June 2008, 11:55   #15
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Mitsubishi & Yamaha were on the top of their game at one time; the Lancer had great brand value, prestige and moved off the showroom floors well. In fact, it even outsold the Honda City on occasion. Ditto with Yamaha and their RX100 over a decade back.

Unfortunately, HM's performance was not consistent and they chose to stick to an attitude fit for the pre-liberalisation era. Heck, Honda is about to launch the third generation City while the old Lancer still struggles for a place in the market. This, after 10 years since launch.

HM has clearly missed a golden opportunity. Its a herculean task to get your brand equity back....just ask Fiat.
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