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Old 14th June 2008, 13:12   #31
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I agree with DCEite. Who will bother to care for 15~20K when they are buying a 8L vehicle. And if we divide this into EMIs it hardly matters as the people will already be paying around 15K/month and increaseing of a few hundreds will not matter at all. Its a bad decision by Govt (as usual).
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Old 14th June 2008, 13:21   #32
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Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
Good decision.
Atleast if you look at it from the point of view of rising fuel costs and demand for fossil fuels increasing exponentially. The intent is to deter people from buying high end cars which can help in controlling pollution, traffic chaos, and saving fuel.
The intent is good, but the actual results will be negligible. A 15k increase is negligible for someone having a budget of ~8 lacs.
A verna with 1.5L engine gives a better mileage than Indica with a 1.4L diesel. So what kind of fuel saving is the govt trying?

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Originally Posted by zenx View Post
I kinda agree with DCEite. While personally, this is the final nail in my Safari-dreams coffin (esp with the huge road tax in Bangalore, and the insurance), overall its not a bad move. 15-20k is not that much for someone spending 8-10L on a vehicle, and barrieirs to private vehicle ownership - especially larger ones - can be kept high. In Singapore, for instance, one needs to procure a Certificate of Entitlement before one can buy a car, and the taxes are high too, from what I hear.

Of course, in parallel, public transport needs to get better. In Bangalore, at least, its gone up a couple of notches for sure - though one could argue that its "not quite there".

Enthusiasts will, one way or the other, continue to drive, despite costs. Sales related to certain cars being status symbols and large vehicles being used as regular commuter options will reduce.

In any case, I'd love to drive a Beemer or a Porsche, but cannot. So, one more off the list. So, I'm looking at this (for health reasons too ).
Govt is afflicted with the "rob from the rich and give to the poor" syndrome. The FM is trying to be Robin Hood.
Agree 20K or 15K is not a big amount, but you forget the 24% excise already paid.
Just because a car cost 20L does not mean its polluting.
If the govt was serious about saving our dependence on crude it would have put in a EPA like agency, based taxes on that.
What concessions does the govt give to electric cars?
Japan is giving 2500$ subisidy to cars like Reva. In India there is still tax to be paid.
What concession is being given to CNG cars?
And the additional tax revenue with this silly move? A paltry 500cr.
Its not the amount of tax that is the issue, its the message the govt is trying to send across.
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Old 14th June 2008, 13:27   #33
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It is a well thought out move, to encourage people to go towards smaller more fuel efficient cars. In the longer term, it will be a good thing for the economy, though not so much of a good thing for car enthusiasts. Maybe, it will also be an incentive for our automakers to come up with smaller more efficient engines.

Next, I wish they somehow discourage the blind rush towards diesel cars. Today, people go for diesel cars only for cost reasons and this heavily increases the subsidy that is not really meant for them. Assuming the average car does 10000 km/year and consumes 600 ltr of diesel, that means a subsidy of around 15000/year that the government is giving them. They should levy a one time cess of 5000 rupees on every diesel car, that can easily bring in another 500 crores for them.
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Old 14th June 2008, 13:30   #34
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
A verna with 1.5L engine gives a better mileage than Indica with a 1.4L diesel. So what kind of fuel saving is the govt trying?


Govt is afflicted with the "rob from the rich and give to the poor" syndrome. The FM is trying to be Robin Hood.
Agree 20K or 15K is not a big amount, but you forget the 24% excise already paid.
Just because a car cost 20L does not mean its polluting.
If the govt was serious about saving our dependence on crude it would have put in a EPA like agency, based taxes on that.
What concessions does the govt give to electric cars?
Japan is giving 2500$ subisidy to cars like Reva. In India there is still tax to be paid.
What concession is being given to CNG cars?
And the additional tax revenue with this silly move? A paltry 500cr.
Its not the amount of tax that is the issue, its the message the govt is trying to send across.
That is exactly what I am trying to say. Tanveer put words to my thoughts. The govt. is trying to play the character of Robin Hood and what's worse, its failing miserably in that also! This happens when you enter a coalition with the sole objective of keeping one party away from power,
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Old 14th June 2008, 13:41   #35
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Zuch, consider yourself lucky! You saved 15K by buying your car last week.

I don't understand the logic behind this bull****. They could have asked people to pay more for cars above 10 lacs, instead of choosing engine capacity as the basis.
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Old 14th June 2008, 14:02   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
A verna with 1.5L engine gives a better mileage than Indica with a 1.4L diesel. So what kind of fuel saving is the govt trying?
Of course one or two exceptions do exist. If you look at the overall picture, there is no denying the fact that small cars do consume lesser fuel than the bigger ones.
Its not just about FE, its about road space and parking space as well. The road space is not increasing in tune with the Vehicular population. Not only that, smaller cars require lesser steel to produce.

In principle, i support any decision to encourage small cars. Though as tsk said, giving concession to electric and CNG cars is also needed. But this cannot be cited as the reason to Not discourage big cars. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Last edited by DCEite : 14th June 2008 at 14:04.
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Old 14th June 2008, 14:12   #37
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This displacement bracket thingy is pathetic. First because of this we got getz 1.1 and the palio 1.1, which were good for the city but felt terribly underpowered on the highway. Now what an SX4 with the swift engine.
The government is just making hasty decisions, without giving any thoughts.
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Old 14th June 2008, 14:21   #38
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I would prefer if the Govt encourages the alternative fuel development and also the hybrid cars instead of trying these type of gimmicks. A Rs.500 Cr will make no difference to the govt in the long run. It will only fill in the ministers coffers.
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Old 14th June 2008, 15:06   #39
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The point is that in this country thanks to our politics one single or couple who is having one or two children and also paying taxes , and paying much more than that to Government in other forms of indirect taxes and also excise VAT sales tax. Ent tax. Etc etc is punished . He Is a form of FRUIT from whom this Government wants to take out last Drop of juice ,and what is the reason for this Penalty imposed on him

The reason is that one BACCHU LAL who cannot make any money cannot do any good for the country is Producing Kids may be 9 th or 10 kid at the age of 54 at a pace where It looks like he is trying to Get his name Figured in Limca book of records

And what our spineless shameless Government Gets is the votes of these people who have already ruined there kids lives and are also tying to ruing ours ,these are the kind of people who re playing with the future of this country .In this country
What ever the taxes will be collected 30 % will go in the pockets of some crook politicians 25 % will go to the Red taped Bureaucrats 20 % will go to middle men and junior govt employees and only the rest 25 % will go those neediest which will never be sufficient for them

What India needs is not excessive penalties on a cars bigger than 1500 cc but penalties on those people who re producing Kids without knowing where the meal for that poor kid will come from forget about good life Medicines Clothing educaition ,It has to be mandatory that we have a 2 children rule and only third or more is allowed once if your income is supportive As in case of Our railway minister

These politicians want to send out a wrong message to the country that those who are earning and taking country ahead are wrong kind of people buying wrong kinds of cars and are penalized ,Shame on them if you look at there own cars ( the politicians they are almost all the times bigger than 1500 CC ) There Chindrens are the one most of the times Buying a Porsche Cayenne and BMW X5 Where the hell does this
1500 CC theory goes out at that time I am ashamed of these so called rulers with double standards to be our leaders SORRY GUYS FOR BEING A LITTLE OFF TOPIC THOUGH
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Old 14th June 2008, 15:31   #40
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I have no problem with paying tax, even 50%, I have no problem with taxing cars however much the govt wants but what is the government going to do with this money? Can we count of minimum healthcare, education, and other basics for the disadvantaged sections or are the left at the mercy of badly functioning state support systems that only pay attention to the needs of VIPs.

We don't have a welfare state but we do have a large amount of funds being diverted to help various groups of people who never benefit from it. Why isn't the government cutting its own costs especially in how they live their lives and how their manage expenses.

That's the point and I don't see why the middle class should continue to fund their lavish lifestyles with 50 car convoys with ambulances intow, large number of security cover and the use of resources of the police and other organs for their upkeep. And this not only for them but all their relatives and friends. This is a modern day kingdom being run under the guise of democracy and token elections with no accountability after that, and they are all in it across parties in this gravy train.

There are serious problems in this country and we need serious management not this casual chalta hai as long as I can live like a king and feel self important, take cuts in all deals and become rich for generations attitude.

Last edited by raul : 14th June 2008 at 15:34.
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Old 14th June 2008, 21:47   #41
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As long as there's inflation, the Government will always increase taxes and duties. There's no two ways about it.

What India needs right now is more exciting small cars, like the i10 with a 1.4 or something like the Zen or Indica with more exciting engines.
Something which has been going on in Europe for a while now, exciting small hatchbacks which are a hoot to drive.
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Old 14th June 2008, 22:38   #42
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Originally Posted by dinar View Post
...just don't think of byeing a big car this year thats it..
That's all one can do now - 'bye' big cars
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Old 14th June 2008, 23:23   #43
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Govt is afflicted with the "rob from the rich and give to the poor" syndrome. The FM is trying to be Robin Hood.
Generating hundred or two hundred crores can't be called as robbing the rich. At national level, its peanuts. This hike is to encourage people to start using more fuel efficient cars.

Infact, I won't be surprised if govt decides to tax diesel cars heavily (to discourage private buyers from buying diesel cars) because diesel is highly subsidized to keep food and transport prices for the masses in check and not for rich to consume for their purpose.

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Originally Posted by snaronikar View Post
All the news channels are reporting that the excise duty on cars are up. The cars with 1500 cc is up by Rs.15,000 and for 2000 CC and above the excise duty is up by Rs.20,000.<stuff deleted>Our politicians does not want Aam Aadmi to leave peacefully
Aam aadmi is buying cars in India ?? Lets not confuse inflation with this. This hike is govt message to decrease fuel consumption

I think it is a right message that govt is sending and like several others, I believe it is a step in the right direction.
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Old 14th June 2008, 23:57   #44
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Originally Posted by flyingspur View Post
Now for the more meaningful stuff : Is this with immediate effect? A verna Petrol is 1.6L right. That car was being considered. This does not sound good w.r.t. the car-buying decision. What's the engine capacity of the SX4 ?
The SX4 has 1586cc engine and it qualifies for 15K rise. This is a bad move and they should take it back.

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Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
Atleast if you look at it from the point of view of rising fuel costs and demand for fossil fuels increasing exponentially. The intent is to deter people from buying high end cars which can help in controlling pollution, traffic chaos, and saving fuel.
The intent is good, but the actual results will be negligible. A 15k increase is negligible for someone having a budget of ~8 lacs.
Then how will people go from point A to point B. Increase fuel prices, try the best to extract the most of common man, but then what will the common man. Do we have secure public transport ?

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Originally Posted by mjothi View Post
In common man's opinion, this is good move. Why? Govt is trying to reduce the fuel consumption for more powered vehicles. Its something like promoting small cars and hence higher fuel efficiency.
Anyway, due to the fuel prices these segment would by itself had some dent. And this would be a added effect to it.
Its a wrong move. This is not out of necessacity.
Again the reply is same as above.

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Originally Posted by mjothi View Post
Personally it should have been only for vehicle that use most subsidized fuel - Diesel
.
They have a history of making wrong decisions.

Quote:
Generating hundred or two hundred crores can't be called as robbing the rich. At national level, its peanuts. This hike is to encourage people to start using more fuel efficient cars.

Infact, I won't be surprised if govt decides to tax diesel cars heavily (to discourage private buyers from buying diesel cars) because diesel is highly subsidized to keep food and transport prices for the masses in check and not for rich to consume for their purpose.

Aam aadmi is buying cars in India ?? Lets not confuse inflation with this. This hike is govt message to decrease fuel consumption

I think it is a right message that govt is sending and like several others, I believe it is a step in the right direction.
@hondadude:
1) How come you say this ? The effeciency of cars depends on engines and not engine capacity as pointed out by tsk1979. Are there any signs of impelemting this ? If that is implemented, then will they take back this flat cess ?

2) If diesel cars were to be taxed heaviely, then why they first came with this cess ? Why not make that move first ?

3) No, its not. Have they ever cared to test safety of cars ? Have they ever checked quality of fuel ? What about road conditions ? Government does not have any rights to put up these kind of cess. We are already paying 24 % excise for every car that is above 4.0 meters in length and has engine capacity higher than 1.2 for petrol and 1.5 for diesel.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 15th June 2008 at 00:10.
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Old 15th June 2008, 00:05   #45
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Time for VW's excellent 1.4 TSI turbo engine..the current rage in Europe.
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