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Old 15th June 2008, 00:16   #46
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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Time for VW's excellent 1.4 TSI turbo engine..the current rage in Europe.
I dont think that they can survive on Indian fuel. And once it starts selling well, we might have a new cess for turbocharged engines.
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Old 15th June 2008, 03:41   #47
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My reply is in bold.

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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
The SX4 has 1586cc engine and it qualifies for 15K rise. This is a bad move and they should take it back.

OKay, so you mean to say that they should make it 1600 cc and not 1500 cc. Can't see a logic that just to spare one car, you redefine the entire categorization.

Then how will people go from point A to point B. Increase fuel prices, try the best to extract the most of common man, but then what will the common man. Do we have secure public transport ?

Why not take a 2 wheelar to office? Do you have to necessarily go out in a car to flaunt your status to neighbors? Rubbish! Jab se public loan par car lena shuru kiya hai, tab se "THODA AUR Wish Karo"!! Utter crap.


They have a history of making wrong decisions.

OKay, so taxing a fuel meant for transportation and used for private consumption is wrong decision. Again, taxing high in times of high inflation to encourage saving and discourage spending to reduce the demand and thereby reduce prices is wrong. Get out of your biased views, my friend. You need to study economics to understand why they are doing so and why it is necessary.


@hondadude:
1) How come you say this ? The effeciency of cars depends on engines and not engine capacity as pointed out by tsk1979. Are there any signs of implementing this ? If that is implemented, then will they take back this flat cess ?

Bureau Of Energy Efficiency is going to rate ALL CARS for their fuel efficiency. Just like they are doing it for air-conditioners at present. Soon you will see cars with 2/3/4/5 stars for their fuel efficiency & that is real world FE & not claimed, thereby helping better decision making.

2) If diesel cars were to be taxed heaviely, then why they first came with this cess ? Why not make that move first ?

Already answered.

3) No, its not. Have they ever cared to test safety of cars ? Have they ever checked quality of fuel ? What about road conditions ? Government does not have any rights to put up these kind of cess. We are already paying 24 % excise for every car that is above 4.0 meters in length and has engine capacity higher than 1.2 for petrol and 1.5 for diesel.

Do you know all the safety stars that cars in your family have? I bet you don't go chasing every to buy a car based on its safety ratings. They are good for junta, but seldom published in a correct way. Also, we are not yet fully modernized in taxing department. Hence, wait for the right time and mind to reframe the structure.
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Old 15th June 2008, 08:41   #48
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@given2fly.
1) Someone asked about the engine capacity of SX4. He has mentioned about Verna as 1.6. The GOI ( Government Of India ) must take back this move because is wrong and not make it 1600cc. This is a wrong cess along with 24% what the affected cars are paying.

2) If its about the fuel price lets move to other thread. There if you read complete thread, you will come to know how much tax we pay in fuel. Lets not get

3) Its making wrong decision not to tax diesel cars more. This move should have been just for private diesel vehicles being sold and not petrol.

4) Yes, I know. But is that the point ?
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Old 15th June 2008, 09:02   #49
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Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
Good decision.
Atleast if you look at it from the point of view of rising fuel costs and demand for fossil fuels increasing exponentially. The intent is to deter people from buying high end cars which can help in controlling pollution, traffic chaos, and saving fuel.
The intent is good, but the actual results will be negligible. A 15k increase is negligible for someone having a budget of ~8 lacs.
I have absolutely no problem with the govt. trying to deter people from buying bigger cars. I think this makes a lot of sense in the long run. I remember the PM saying somewhere that he wants India to be the world wide hub for small cars.

This particular step might not have been executed well but it's part of a long term policy and if this encourages manufacturers to make better, more fuel efficient cars then it will be good for all.

I also agree that people who want to buy bigger cars will always do so and this hike will not affect them much.

Instead of just detering people from buying bigger cars they should also promote cars that are more environmentally friendly and/or use alternative fuels.
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Old 15th June 2008, 09:04   #50
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The government is under pressure from the Left parties to tax the " affluent classes". In order to please his allies Mr Singh has again gone for a populist measure and shown that he is the weakest Prime Minister tag he has earned is rightly deserved.

Instead of such steps, the govt should cut the fuel quota provided to politicians and ministers in the central and state governments. There should be a limit on the size of an official carcade for politcos and govt servants. (In smaller places even a DM or an SP move in 3-5 car convoys which is a waste of public money).

There should be a comprehensive energy policy with emphasis on both convenional and non conventional sources of energy (including solar, nuclear and organic waste). Electricity projects, and gas production and distribution infrastructure projects mired in red tape should be
The government should also go in for massine investment in Bus and track based mass transport systems through out the country, augument CNG dispensing capacity for automobiles, encourage alternate fuels by reducing taxes on bifuel, electric and cng fuelled vehicles.

An effiicient mass transport system with abundant supply of electicity ( to prevent use of gensets for power generation) will not only reduce our dependance on imported fuel, but also reduce pollution and congestion.

The time for quick fixes is over.As India develops, the demand for energy and transport will grow exponentially. As of today, very few Indians own pvt transportation. One can well imagine our requirement for fuel as more and more Indians join the "consuming class". US and Western Europe despite having a much lower population than India are bigger consumers of fuel. We need to get ur act in place by putting in place a good public transport system so that people are not " compelled" to go in for private transport.
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Old 15th June 2008, 09:09   #51
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Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
We elected this Govt. Why complain?
Most of us allowed others to elect this or any other Govt, by not casting our vote. vote in next election

regards,
-manju
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Old 15th June 2008, 10:13   #52
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Default Excise duty hiked for vehicles above 1500 cc!

Another reason for manufacturers so sell us even more underpowered cars for double and triple the amount the high end versions cost abroad.

We will all be seeing 1.2 liter sedans groaning past soon!
Disgusting more than disheartening.
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Old 15th June 2008, 16:29   #53
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Originally Posted by crackingride View Post
Another reason for manufacturers so sell us even more underpowered cars for double and triple the amount the high end versions cost abroad.

We will all be seeing 1.2 liter sedans groaning past soon!
Disgusting more than disheartening.
As long as there is only one person ploughing his sedan on the road and many examples like him all abound, you can't really help this tax regime. Try to understand that in times of high inflation, government does impose high amount of taxes to save on precious forex and curb common people's spending habits. In order to get the prices down, the lavicious lifestyle spending too has to go down. You can't want more growth and demand arising and thereby prices rising northwards also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajneeesh View Post
There should be a limit on the size of an official carcade for politcos and govt servants. (In smaller places even a DM or an SP move in 3-5 car convoys which is a waste of public money).

There should be a comprehensive energy policy with emphasis on both convenional and non conventional sources of energy (including solar, nuclear and organic waste).

The government should also go in for massive investment in Bus and track based mass transport systems through out the country, augment CNG dispensing capacity for automobiles, encourage alternate fuels by reducing taxes on bifuel, electric and cng fuelled vehicles.

An effiicient mass transport system with abundant supply of electicity ( to prevent use of gensets for power generation) will not only reduce our dependance on imported fuel, but also reduce pollution and congestion.

The time for quick fixes is over.As India develops, the demand for energy and transport will grow exponentially. As of today, very few Indians own pvt transportation. One can well imagine our requirement for fuel as more and more Indians join the "consuming class". US and Western Europe despite having a much lower population than India are bigger consumers of fuel. We need to get ur act in place by putting in place a good public transport system so that people are not " compelled" to go in for private transport.
Well worded opinion, buddy. Precisely my point. We have to learn not to take out our cars just because we can. As a socially responsible people, it helps if we start 15-20 minutes earlier to get a bus to office. I understand that apart from Metros, it may not sound all that feasible, but this won't probably just take shape in our times. We have a choice to give our kids a legacy of what we learnt from our previous generations or make them civilized, kind & affable human beings. The choice is ours & the time is now!
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Old 15th June 2008, 16:32   #54
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In common man's opinion, this is good move. Why? Govt is trying to reduce the fuel consumption for more powered vehicles.
If the government is serious about reducing fuel consumption, they would provide us with better road infrastructure which would automatically reduce fuel consumption.

On Friday morning, it took me an hour to drive about 90 kms from Vashi to Lonavla varying my speeds between 100-130 kmph on the expressway. The same day in the evening, it took me one and a half hours to drive about 20 kms from Churchgate to Chembur because of the non-existant roads in the financial capital of the country. Does the government realise how much fuel could be saved if cars could travel at a constant speed of about 70kmph compared to the 15kmph we do now within Mumbai city limits? Has the government or any independant organisation done any study to find out how much fuel could be saved with something as basic as better road infrastructure?

Forget roads, there is a pedestrian crossing under the BARC flyover while going towards Vashi. Most of the times there are no pedestrians waiting to cross the road. Still cars have to wait at traffic lights for them to turn green. Everyday I feel like a moron waiting for the lights to go green since most of the times there isn't even a crow waiting to cross the road. Imagine the fuel that could be saved by making traffic lights dynamic in all our cities.

Last edited by amit : 15th June 2008 at 16:33.
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Old 15th June 2008, 18:17   #55
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
@hondadude:
1) How come you say this ? The effeciency of cars depends on engines and not engine capacity as pointed out by tsk1979. Are there any signs of impelemting this ? If that is implemented, then will they take back this flat cess ?
There are always exceptions, but by and large, smaller engines are more efficient.

Quote:
2) If diesel cars were to be taxed heaviely, then why they first came with this cess ? Why not make that move first ?
I don' t know if they will tax diesel more. I think they should and it makes a lot of sense. This cess applies to all vehicles, petrol or diesel. Even petrol is subsized today.

Quote:
3) No, its not. Have they ever cared to test safety of cars ? Have they ever checked quality of fuel ? What about road conditions ? Government does not have any rights to put up these kind of cess. We are already paying 24 % excise for every car that is above 4.0 meters in length and has engine capacity higher than 1.2 for petrol and 1.5 for diesel.
Govt has every right to put up any and every kind of cess. They can put 100% excise if they want to and you or me can't do anything about it. Smaller cars and smaller engines in general (yes, there are exceptions lets not get there) are more efficient and hence Govt should encourage people to buy those cars as opposed to the bigger ones.

While Govt hasn't done enough, its not like they haven't done anything. Infrastructure investments like GQ are a boon. Roads have vastly improved (granted they aren't there yet but they are constantly improving). Emission norms have become stricter and so on. I think one big miss on govt's part is that they haven't mandated ABS & Airbags yet. I hope that happens soon.
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Old 16th June 2008, 00:23   #56
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My Answers are in bold.

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Originally Posted by hondadude View Post
There are always exceptions, but by and large, smaller engines are more efficient.

Then why not test them and act accordingly.



I don' t know if they will tax diesel more. I think they should and it makes a lot of sense. This cess applies to all vehicles, petrol or diesel. Even petrol is subsized today.

Petrol is also more heaviely taxed. The thread " fuel Prices " ( not exact words ) has a lot more details.

Govt has every right to put up any and every kind of cess. They can put 100% excise if they want to and you or me can't do anything about it. Smaller cars and smaller engines in general (yes, there are exceptions lets not get there) are more efficient and hence Govt should encourage people to buy those cars as opposed to the bigger ones.

While Govt hasn't done enough, its not like they haven't done anything. Infrastructure investments like GQ are a boon. Roads have vastly improved (granted they aren't there yet but they are constantly improving). Emission norms have become stricter and so on. I think one big miss on govt's part is that they haven't mandated ABS & Airbags yet. I hope that happens soon.

What about the quality of fuel ? Taxing without results is meaningless. They have a right to tax if they are able to do good for the people. Just adding cess is illogical. They should have done car-wise testing and confirmed how to tax.
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Old 16th June 2008, 09:34   #57
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
My Answers are in bold.

There are always exceptions, but by and large, smaller engines are more efficient.

Then why not test them and act accordingly.
In an ideal world that should happen but practically it is difficult to implement in India considering our penchant for bureaucracy. If done that way, it has the potential for delays and possibly corruption.

Quote:
What about the quality of fuel ? Taxing without results is meaningless. They have a right to tax if they are able to do good for the people. Just adding cess is illogical. They should have done car-wise testing and confirmed how to tax.
Yes and I guess you conveniently overlooked the point about vastly improved roads etc. Like I said in the previous post, this cess won't result in any meaningful amount for Govt (a couple of hundred crores is practically nothing) but will send a message to people. Quality of fuel has been improving steadily over the last decade or so. If Lambo/Porsche etc are being sold in the country, the fuel can't be that bad. Granted, it isn't the best possible but it isn't bad.
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Old 16th June 2008, 10:46   #58
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This will just deter the manf to bring higher capacity engine and performance cars. Implying we continue to drive the puny honda city's with 77 odd horses. Take for example Swift 1.3 Petrol, it came before the excise rebate for small cars with engines upto 1200cc. So we got a performance hatch in Swift before the hike. However cars that followed, like Aveo UVA etc. came with puny engines with 1200cc. Same trend would deter the new model of Honda City to have higher than 1500 cc engine and may force Honda to continue to old I-DSI engine in India whereas it might introduce a 1600 cc engine abroad.

The babus remain unaffected, driving around in imported BMW bought from our hard earned taxes!!!

Last edited by aseem : 16th June 2008 at 10:47.
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Old 16th June 2008, 11:12   #59
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Much as this move is currently distasteful, this could very well be just the 1st step in varied taxation based on fuel efficiency of vehicles in India.
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Old 16th June 2008, 16:42   #60
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Originally Posted by amit View Post
If the government is serious about reducing fuel consumption, they would provide us with better road infrastructure which would automatically reduce fuel consumption.
On a lighter note: Its cost govt to provide good infrastructure

You are right. But, even with this extra income for Govt, they can achieve saving of petrol.
People will opt for lower cc vehicle and hence less fuel wastage in traffic.

Worst is yet to come. I read in today's TOI that tgovt is planing to tax more for people who can afford to pay tax. Yes, this is what the news says. Govt is assuming that anyone who have car is RICH and should be taxed.

My opinion is, they should make people reduce the fuel consumption. That does not mean they should keep hiking the petrol price since diesel is used for Public transport and other transports. What they should do is, rethink and form a body to THINK on how we can solve this energy crisis, what alternative we can provide to people,

eg:
1. Increase decent and clean Public transport.
2. Encourage buyers of other energy cars like electric, CNG etc by reducing say taxes on those etc,
3. yes, Infrastructure a big point.
4. I thik they already started to rate the FE vehicle, which is a good move.
5. Most important - Make sure that the Public buses comply to the emission and do not waste precious oils.
6. Encourage small private players to ply small vehicles between say a radius of 10 kms. (yes, like mini buses in tamilnadu)
7. Reduce the number of seats in local Public transport. Yes, reduce the number of seat and make room for more people to travel comfortably.
and the list can go long, hope someone sitting in the CHAIR really thinks of these and come up with plans and not just papers.

OT: The Law of Attraction says that, if we keep thinking of what we dont want, we attract a lot of "dont wants". So, lets discuss and think of what we want to see the power of Secret to bring it true.
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