Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17th June 2008, 13:17   #1
Senior - BHPian
 
extreme_torque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,546
Thanked: 1,318 Times
Default A Study:Is Fiat Palio 1.2 Pre-NV really fuel in-efficient?

I read across forums and hear it from people that the Palio 1.2 NV or not is not fuel efficient. I wonder if its really true. I purchased a Nokia N82 which comes with GPS in April and I have been using this to see the accuracy of the odometer and the speedometer of my Palio and the other cars I drive.
First thing, almost all cars that I drove barring my 2002 Palio 1.2 have a speedo error to the tune of 10% or even more. My Palio is almost dead accurate with hardly a difference of .2kmph or .3 kmph @ 60 compared to the reading on GPS.
My cousin's Santro at 60 kph on speedo was actually doing 53.XX on GPS
My friends wagon-R at 60 kph on speedo was actually doing 54.xx on GPS and same was the case with Safari, Tavera, Indica, Innova et. all.
Secondly, the odometer on my car under reads by more than 3%. When the GPS showed the actual distance travelled as 32 kms, the odometer showed 30.7 kms. Compairing it with the other cars like the Santro and the Wagon-R, the odometer over reads by close to 10%. The same distance in the santro was 35 kms and so was the Wagon-R.
Now if I were to compare the Palio with other cars in the market, the speedo under reads by over 12% which is a huge difference becuase the fuel efficiency is calculated using the trip or the odometer in the car.
So if my Palio gives me an average of 10 kmpl, the average in any other small car would have been 11.2 kmpl!
My Palio has been consistently giving me 11-12kmpl with A/C which equates to 13-14 kmpl for other cars. Now you tell me, is it really in-efficient for a 1 tonne + car with a 1.2 litre engine to give you 13+ kmpl with A/C in city conditions.
I rest my case.

I would request other Palio owners to come up with their calculations if they can and post their fuel efficiency figures.

P.S. I dont really understand how FIAT can overlook this. We all know they didnt re-caliberate the brazilian version and that has hurt the fuel efficiency big time and hence a lot of potential customers.
extreme_torque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2008, 13:24   #2
Distinguished - BHPian
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bangalore / TVM
Posts: 8,974
Thanked: 16,772 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
P.S. I dont really understand how FIAT can overlook this. We all know they didnt re-caliberate the brazilian version and that has hurt the fuel efficiency big time and hence a lot of potential customers.
I do not own a Palio 1.2, and so not commenting on the FE part.

But IMO, more than finding out the figures for 1.2, owners can find out if the same is true with the current Palio's ( 1.6, 1.1 and MJD) same way as extreme_torque has explained, which are the figures prospective buyers will look for.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 17th June 2008 at 13:25.
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2008, 13:33   #3
BHPian
 
rao_battula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 128
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

My palio 1.2 nv Sport mileage is between 12.5 to 13 consistently. It generally reduces to 11.5 - 12 for the first few tank fulls after Servicing. I am not sure whether car's Odo is corrected or not.

-BSR
rao_battula is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2008, 13:34   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
finneyp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,619
Thanked: 160 Times
Default

ET, you finally got into the crux of this misconception that Palio (esp older versions) had bad FE!

What I deduce from your study is - Palio's odometer was correctly calibrated, but it was other cars in the market with odometers calibrated 10% more than the actual distance covered, hence giving us the false impression that their Cars returns better FE (covers more distance for the same fuel quantity) compared to Palio's FE (which indeed gives the correct picture).

So who is wrong here? I don't think Fiat India, they did the right thing!
It was other Car makers, who calibrated their odos 10% more than the actual, to claim higher FE figures!

Last edited by finneyp : 17th June 2008 at 13:35.
finneyp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2008, 13:35   #5
Senior - BHPian
 
neoonwheels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,652
Thanked: 599 Times
Default

It happened to me as well... I visited one place in Mumbai when my Odo was showing 194 KM, the other car Alto was showing 212 KM. But as far I know 1.2 NV has the new odo unlike the brazilian we have on pre 1.2 NV.

In City my car gives me about 13 KMPL without AC and 11 KMPL with AC. If I go by your calculation, I am actually doing 14.5 - 15 in city without AC, to me it is very impressive.

In future whenever any other is coming me with, I will make it a point to note odo running of both.

Last edited by neoonwheels : 17th June 2008 at 13:37.
neoonwheels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2008, 13:36   #6
BHPian
 
windsurfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Dundee, UK
Posts: 513
Thanked: 25 Times
Smile

Is there any other way other than GPS to verify this? I am yet to buy a GPS enabled phone or device? Though I qualify for this study by owning a Palio 1.6 Sport .
windsurfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2008, 13:44   #7
Senior - BHPian
 
extreme_torque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,546
Thanked: 1,318 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by windsurfer View Post
Is there any other way other than GPS to verify this? I am yet to buy a GPS enabled phone or device? Though I qualify for this study by owning a Palio 1.6 Sport .
As far as I know, GPS is one of the most accurate devices to calculate speed and the distance covered. Besides my study isnt just one day reading.... its spread over 2-3 months, so if there is any error, it would have evened out.
extreme_torque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2008, 13:46   #8
Senior - BHPian
 
extreme_torque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,546
Thanked: 1,318 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by neoonwheels View Post
It happened to me as well... I visited one place in Mumbai when my Odo was showing 194 KM, the other car Alto was showing 212 KM. But as far I know 1.2 NV has the new odo unlike the brazilian we have on pre 1.2 NV.
Again, if you see here, the odo difference is roughly 10% which to me is a lot and its especially true in India where fuel averge can make or break a car.
extreme_torque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2008, 13:47   #9
BHPian
 
indivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 753
Thanked: 90 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
First thing, almost all cars that I drove barring my 2002 Palio 1.2 have a speedo error to the tune of 10% or even more. My Palio is almost dead accurate with hardly a difference of .2kmph or .3 kmph @ 60 compared to the reading on GPS.

P.S. I dont really understand how FIAT can overlook this. We all know they didnt re-caliberate the brazilian version and that has hurt the fuel efficiency big time and hence a lot of potential customers.
Hey, nice work. When the NV series was launched, I remember reading in one of the auto mags the reason why there was an under-reading of the ODO was that they changed the profile of the tyres for the Indian model - I think they run the 165/80 R13 instead of a lower profile higher dia elsewhere, but they did not recalibrate the ODOs - don't know why.

I also remembered reading that Palio's speedo was the most accurate from among many cars.

I guess they should have taken up a publicity campaign like Maruti/Hyundai to educate consumers but Fiat being Fiat - was run by Italians and they just dragged their feet.
indivic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2008, 13:59   #10
Distinguished - BHPian
 
supremeBaleno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Weekdays@Chennai, Weekends@Kerala
Posts: 5,164
Thanked: 1,638 Times
Default

Were the other cars you checked, running stock tyres/wheels ?

And pardon my ignorance - but what is this "Brazilian odo re-calibration" thing? I mean, isn't a km in Brazil the same as in India ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque
I dont really understand how FIAT can overlook this. We all know they didnt re-caliberate the brazilian version and that has hurt the fuel efficiency big time and hence a lot of potential customers.
IMO, low FE (perceived or actual) was only one of the many reasons for lost customers. Main reason being that the company was just not interested in the Indian market, and did not put in even a fraction of the required effort to sell cars here.
supremeBaleno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2008, 14:01   #11
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 388
Thanked: 19 Times
Default

This is a revelation. I know that my Esteem's speedo is not calibrated properly. It shows 60 kmph when the actual speed would be around 55 or even less. I do feel so. Also, the km reading as well shows incorrect figures.

Sad that such a wonderful car, Palio was killed by stories of bad FE
Jeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2008, 14:03   #12
Senior - BHPian
 
nitrous's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UAE/Lon/Madras
Posts: 6,966
Thanked: 282 Times
Default

Quote:
And pardon my ignorance - but what is this "Brazilian odo re-calibration" thing? I mean, isn't a km in Brazil the same as in India ?
Yes, you are ignorant on this topic.
Apparently, the tyre size was changed in India for accommodating our bad roads. But, the great FIAT engineers didnt bother about recalibrating the speedo gearing for the different tyre size.
nitrous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2008, 14:07   #13
Senior - BHPian
 
extreme_torque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,546
Thanked: 1,318 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Were the other cars you checked, running stock tyres/wheels ?
Yes, all the readings were taken on cars with stock tyres and wheels.
extreme_torque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2008, 14:08   #14
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,430
Thanked: 32 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Were the other cars you checked, running stock tyres/wheels ?

And pardon my ignorance - but what is this "Brazilian odo re-calibration" thing? I mean, isn't a km in Brazil the same as in India ?
As far as what I read in ACI years ago, the Brazilian Palio had a different tyre size and hence, the calibration of the odo was different. Fiat India changed the tyres for India, but forgot to callibrate the odo for Indian Palio's tires, hence the distance shown by the odo was actually less as compared to the actual distance travelled by the car. Therefore, the FE was measured lower. Apparently, they corrected the odo callibration starting from NV models.
deepakhon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2008, 14:10   #15
Distinguished - BHPian
 
supremeBaleno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Weekdays@Chennai, Weekends@Kerala
Posts: 5,164
Thanked: 1,638 Times
Default

Thanks for enlightening me, nitrouuuuuus.
Any idea what was the Brazilian tyre spec and the Indian one ?

BTW, just wondering whether the MUL engineers would have calibrated the odo of the 2 Baleno versions to match the 2 different tyre/rim sizes. I don't think any other manufacturer gives 2 different tyre/rim sizes for variants of the same car - can't get any stupider than this.
supremeBaleno is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
10 Million USD X-Prize for Fuel Efficient Cars sriramv.iyer The Indian Car Scene 4 1st May 2010 06:59
2009 Hyundai Sonata and 2008 Malibu More Fuel-Efficient than Camry,Accord srishiva The International Automotive Scene 7 16th May 2008 11:32
Most fuel efficient diesel sedan\muv RoadFiend Sedans 18 25th June 2007 10:48
Why do we have less Fuel Efficient cars in India ? Karandeep81 The Indian Car Scene 25 14th June 2007 15:22
Kinetic motorcycles are most Fuel-efficient devarshi84 Motorbikes 14 13th April 2006 08:56


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 19:40.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks