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Old 23rd June 2008, 22:47   #46
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Hi guys like elsewhere in the world i guess it's safe to say that's the japanese made/designed vehciles are the most dependable than their european or amercian or even korean counterparts..
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Old 24th June 2008, 08:46   #47
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i think toyota has sold a lot of cars in our market. you see much more innovas plying on our roads and rarely have i seen any of them stranded. i also expected the corolla. good that the company stood upto its image of making reliable cars. also i am not too suprised about the santro making an entry.
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Old 24th June 2008, 08:52   #48
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J.D., shmay dee, what do they know about Indian driving conditions.

Obviously the most dependable car is the Mahindra Jeep.

The Jeep can take more abuse and than any car in the survey, and keep running for years and years.
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Old 24th June 2008, 09:21   #49
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Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : Please do NOT SPAM the forum. One-liners that add absolutely no value to the thread are strictly prohibited on Team-BHP.

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Last edited by GTO : 24th June 2008 at 11:41.
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Old 24th June 2008, 10:32   #50
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Well they did rate the Scorpio in the survey, which is well, a Jeep with fancy exteriors and a refined CRDe engine.

But surprisingly the survey shows Scorpio to be slightly less reliable than Safari. Not sure if this is because there are much more Scorpios on the road than Safaris ?

BTW, the Endy reported only 204 problems per 100 vehicles, while Safari and Scorpio are at double that figure.
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Old 24th June 2008, 12:52   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman7 View Post
toyota always.. yet to see a broken down innova or corolla
Well I have seen just one on express way....it overtook me when i was at 130 kmph....after 15 mins saw the same stranded with bonnet open in the most dangerous lane, the extream right lane.

Most dependeble does not mean that it never breaks down....I think it should be the highest reliable (Which means the probability of break down is low but not ZERO %)

For indian road condition M&M vehicles suite best.

In interior parts of Maharashtra, I still see the Jeeps running perfectly even though they have crossed 20 yrs of there lifespan. I am sure that data is not available with JD .
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Old 24th June 2008, 13:00   #52
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Guys, How about the bullock / horse carts?

Arnt they most reliable source of transportation?
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Old 24th June 2008, 14:07   #53
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Nearly all JD Power's surveys have its share of controversies, and this one seems to carry on.

C Class as having the least problems amongst all (not even in its segment).
3-year period has excluded Civic, Verna, SX4: all best sellers or at least cars in which people would be interested in knowing more about.
No Accord
I had remarked that GM can tout its IQS figures but look where its left-leaning Optra is.
Sample size is small and so too the cars surveyed, but at least it is a start. In the US VDS, the industry average is 216 pp/100 vehicles for nameplate (not car models).

Let us hope that the survey gets better in the future, and learn to take sample surveys by interested organisations (JD Powers does consulting also) with a pinch of salt.
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Old 24th June 2008, 14:14   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasudeva
No Accord.
I agree about the Accord not figuring in the list. Or is it that the survey results showed Accord to be having more problems than the 3 cars listed in its segment and thus it does not figure in the list - since they mention only top 3 cars for each segment ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasudeva
3-year period has excluded Civic, Verna, SX4: all best sellers or at least cars in which people would be interested in knowing more about.
AFAIK, these 3 cars were released in India only after Sep2005, which was the cut-off date for vehicles surveyed, which is why they dont figure in the study.

"The 2008 India Vehicle Dependability Study is based on evaluations from nearly 4,700 owners, who purchased a new vehicle between July 2004 and September 2005.
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Old 24th June 2008, 14:24   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
AFAIK, these 3 cars were released in India only after Sep2005, which was the cut-off date for vehicles surveyed, which is why they dont figure in the study.
This was my point that because of the period, many best sellers have been excluded. I think Accord has been excluded, rather than it being very bad.

I have an explanation for the great figures of C-Class and Camry. Typically Merc/Lexus owners are people who own the company. Rather than wasting time over trivial nonsense, they let their overworked secretaries fill up the forms.

Camry is largely owned by Punjabi babus and ministers. These people have a natural `no' to everything, and JD Power questionnaire would be:
1. Did you face any problems Y/N
2. Did you get stuck Y/N
3. Did your car blow up Y/N

and so on.
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Old 24th June 2008, 14:33   #56
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Most dependable vehicles:

Indica, Sumo, Mahindra jeeps, Force Trax.
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Old 24th June 2008, 15:01   #57
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Quote:
There is old wisdom which goes " Lies, damned lies & statistics".
While what you say is correct, let us remember that if statistics can lie, there can be a grain of truth buried in it too.

Going by design alone, for a prospective, observational study, the sample size is alright. 4700 vehicles for 33 models seems reasonable (given that fact that many of the surveyed models do not sell any great numbers). If we have the exact breakup, we can calculate power of study taking total sales of a given model during the study period.

Since "power of study" is a basic statistical requirement, one can safely assume that this factor has not been overlooked during study design.

So statements like "in my experience, car X is very reliable" are exactly the kind that this type of survey will nullify. A single longitudinal experience (good or bad) cannot hold a candle to a cross-sectional study.
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Old 24th June 2008, 16:56   #58
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IMHO, Honda and Toyota are globally renowned for reliability. They should be the top 2 on that list or they didn't include a lot of honda/toyota owners when conducting the survey. In any case, that survey isn't trustworthy.
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Old 24th June 2008, 17:17   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arajand View Post
While what you say is correct, let us remember that if statistics can lie, there can be a grain of truth buried in it too.

Going by design alone, for a prospective, observational study, the sample size is alright. 4700 vehicles for 33 models seems reasonable (given that fact that many of the surveyed models do not sell any great numbers). If we have the exact breakup, we can calculate power of study taking total sales of a given model during the study period.

Since "power of study" is a basic statistical requirement, one can safely assume that this factor has not been overlooked during study design.

So statements like "in my experience, car X is very reliable" are exactly the kind that this type of survey will nullify. A single longitudinal experience (good or bad) cannot hold a candle to a cross-sectional study.
Of course , this kind of study can be done. I mention the same in my two notes on this topic. It is ceratinly possible - My question is, whether the statistical requirements have been tuned to the Indian Conditions? We don't have evidence for or against this. You can give the benefit of doubt to the surveyor - I hesitate to do that simply because a sample size of 4700 vehicles (for 33 models) for a country of this size ,vastness and diversity may be too less. I would argue that there is far less homgeneity in India in terms of road conditions, awareness about vehicle maintenance,and the amount of abuse that some vehicles are subject to. I am not saying this simply because of the fact that some of the findings are counter intuitive to mine or someone else's personal experience - indeed a mass study like this would aim to precisely iron out such "outliers". I am saying it because I think India is the kind of market which can be a statistician's nightmare if it is not approached with the right kind of respect it deserves.
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Old 24th June 2008, 17:27   #60
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Needless to say that this report is a piece of ****.
M800 should have been on the list somewhere close to the top, because you see only few of them breaking down on the road even though
1. These have been around for about 25 years, and only MUL would know the total number of M800s they sold
2. Most of the M800 users are first time car buyers, and especially the ones who bought them used would not get it serviced on time. Most of them would push it beyond their limits, get it serviced at roadside shops, use 'local' spares etc. One should agree that a C/D seg car would get pampered more by its owner.
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