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Old 1st July 2008, 13:49   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sj_koova View Post
This what happened with me a month back.
I was on the narrow road where it was tough to overtake unless the the guy in front is nice to you. ..... I had to praise the rigid build of Cedia at least in my mind that day. I had considered NHC before buying Cedia. I wonder now what would have happened to me that day if I had the NHC
Me too had a nasty hit on my Cedia from the back by a biker.
I was approaching a traffic signal and it turned red and I stopped. The biker behind me had no intention of stopping or applying a brake. he wanted to go around me, but, the other side traffic already started. He banged into my left corner of the car and believe me, his front wheel crashed into the bumper at the left corner and was sticking in there. I stopped the car and came out to see and he was unable to track the bike back. It was stuck between my bumper and the road.

I went back into the car and moved a bit and the bike's front wheel got released. Then I stopped my car again to see the damage done to the Bumper and he (the biker) was with me too. I could saw about 6 inches depression in the rubber at the left corner and in front of us, the rubber slowly popped out and became absolutely normal. The biker was awestruck and just said 'amazing'... The bumper showed no other damage at all.
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Old 1st July 2008, 13:58   #47
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All Thanks to Honda for designing a pedestrian safe car !

The guy driving NHC should feel sorry to the Cycler and Provide all Thanks to HONDA !
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Old 1st July 2008, 14:04   #48
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Originally Posted by manikjeet View Post
we have 13 NHC in the family and i can definitely say they are not strong and are very expensive to get them repair

i have a accident with a rickshaw and the car was told totally damage

here is the link
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...-rickshaw.html (My car meet with a rickshaw)
Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
I don't know how you could conclude that build quality (the way you think) makes a car unsafe. As I said before Hondas are safer than most American cars. They do not lag the Europeans in safety.

If safety was as easy as putting heavy gauge metal, Indian car makers would be in the top league of safer cars. I don't know how would anyone react to losing a loved one and still having a less damaged car.
Hey Srishiva - I really dont agree with your statement, and Manikjeet with 13 Honda's in his family seems to vouch for the build quality. Fact is that the Hondas are nice cars in terms of fuel efficency and refined engines, but they are'nt as safe as some of the European cars in terms of build quality. And while safety is not only about metal gauge, it definitely is impacted adversely by thin metal. In this case, Thin = Flimsy.

Also, I was never saying that I value cars more than human life. I think you misinterpreted my point.
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Old 1st July 2008, 14:36   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
Hey Srishiva - I really dont agree with your statement, and Manikjeet with 13 Honda's in his family seems to vouch for the build quality. Fact is that the Hondas are nice cars in terms of fuel efficency and refined engines, but they are'nt as safe as some of the European cars in terms of build quality. And while safety is not only about metal gauge, it definitely is impacted adversely by thin metal. In this case, Thin = Flimsy.

Also, I was never saying that I value cars more than human life. I think you misinterpreted my point.
I am not misinterpreting your point. I agree that Japanese cars have lighter exterior panels than european ones. They cost less and are efficient for this reason.

What I want to put across is that this in no way affects the safety. They might incur a higher repair bill though. (but again compared to lakhs of rupees from european cars, its not much)

Build quality (as seen by most in the forum) does not necessarily translate to better safety. They do however contribute to ride quality (no rattle, that thud feel, touch and feel etc.,).

The exterior sheet metals are not a major part of safety apparatus that a car provides. Bumpers do undergo what is a mandatory 5 mph test where they are not supposed to get deformed. These are met by jap and korean cars.

Its a different thing to discuss about the repair costs, bumper strength, panel thickness etc., Its wrong to bring them in while discussing safety.

your statement... "Fact is that the Hondas are nice cars in terms of fuel efficency and refined engines, but they are'nt as safe as some of the European cars in terms of build quality"... is not true. I know for sure that Hondas are not less safe than european cars, they are safer than most american cars. If you can point to some data to prove this otherwise, I would be happy to gain from you.

Last edited by srishiva : 1st July 2008 at 14:38.
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Old 1st July 2008, 14:47   #50
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actually the steel frame stops anything entering into the cabin area.

Last edited by sidd_city : 1st July 2008 at 14:54.
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Old 1st July 2008, 15:39   #51
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We invest huge amount in getting the car. First the car should protect the driver and the occupants during the crash and then comes to the pedestrian safety. Most cars now have the CAB forward design to protect pedestrians.

I hope the Civic should handle the situation well and not like this NHC.
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Old 1st July 2008, 15:47   #52
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are the Civic, CRV, and Accord better when it comes to damages happening to the car in case of accidents? Do they have thicker gauge metal and better bumpers? That might give some answers.
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Old 1st July 2008, 15:54   #53
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Cr-v crash test video. I think its got 5 stars (coz the old one did).



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Old 1st July 2008, 16:23   #54
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I have to question the build quality of the city after reading through all the posts here. Hitting a cycle should not have triggered crumple zones. Its a weak argument if someone says that it has been done deliberately by Honda so as to absorb the impact but what about the impact threshold? A very close friend and her family including the driver perished in an accident when the Honda City they were travelling in collided with an army ambulance. Shame on you Honda!
I was rear ended by a Santro at 30 kmph in my Palio which resulted in caved in headlamp on the santro, a hanging bumper with the clips to hold it in place broken and a slightly damaged bonnet, while my car just had a dent in the bumper.
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Old 1st July 2008, 16:39   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
I am not misinterpreting your point. I agree that Japanese cars have lighter exterior panels than european ones. They cost less and are efficient for this reason.

What I want to put across is that this in no way affects the safety. They might incur a higher repair bill though. (but again compared to lakhs of rupees from european cars, its not much)

Build quality (as seen by most in the forum) does not necessarily translate to better safety. They do however contribute to ride quality (no rattle, that thud feel, touch and feel etc.,).

The exterior sheet metals are not a major part of safety apparatus that a car provides. Bumpers do undergo what is a mandatory 5 mph test where they are not supposed to get deformed. These are met by jap and korean cars.

Its a different thing to discuss about the repair costs, bumper strength, panel thickness etc., Its wrong to bring them in while discussing safety.

your statement... "Fact is that the Hondas are nice cars in terms of fuel efficency and refined engines, but they are'nt as safe as some of the European cars in terms of build quality"... is not true. I know for sure that Hondas are not less safe than european cars, they are safer than most american cars. If you can point to some data to prove this otherwise, I would be happy to gain from you.
Looked high and low to find the crash worthiness test rating for the Honda City, but no luck. Will continue looking, but heres something that lends credence to my point that the weight of the car influences safety in a major way.

Crashtest.com - Introduction to Vehicle Safety Ratings

To quote specifically from this link:

(Quote) Overall Ratings - Crashtest.com evaluates all the available data on a specific vehicle and assigns it 1 of 5 possible performance ratings. The overall rating is not simply an average of the other scores, because certain categories count more from a safety point of view.

The most significant safety determinant, worth as much as all the others put together, is Weight. It is so important that it would overwhelm all other factors if included in the assessment, so we do not include it in our overall rating. However we strongly recommend that you note BOTH of the last 2 rating categories Weight and Overall, when you consider the ultimate crashworthiness of a particular model. (End of Quote)

So, therefore, if the Honda City has lighter external panels, it helps increase the fuel efficency, but has a negative impact on the safety and crash worthiness rating of the vehicle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
I have to question the build quality of the city after reading through all the posts here. Hitting a cycle should not have triggered crumple zones. Its a weak argument if someone says that it has been done deliberately by Honda so as to absorb the impact but what about the impact threshold? A very close friend and her family including the driver perished in an accident when the Honda City they were travelling in collided with an army ambulance. Shame on you Honda!
I was rear ended by a Santro at 30 kmph in my Palio which resulted in caved in headlamp on the santro, a hanging bumper with the clips to hold it in place broken and a slightly damaged bonnet, while my car just had a dent in the bumper.
Sorry to hear about the incident. Its sad that we dont consider the crash worthiness rating before evaluating a car in India. All we do is consider fuel efficency, top speed etc...

Last edited by Technocrat : 1st July 2008 at 17:01.
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Old 1st July 2008, 16:58   #56
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Going by the description of NHC's state, it appears that it would have hit something other than the cycle to deform like that. If it is going to deform to such a great extent for such relatively low impacts, one can only imagine how safe it will be at high speed heavy impacts.

OT: I see lot of discussion steel frame for passenger safety.

AFAIK, all modern cars have monocoque design, so where does this steel frame come from? These are not WRC cars to have internal steel structure. Isnt't it?
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Old 1st July 2008, 17:06   #57
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Default Crumple zone?

I agree NHC has crumple zones which saves lives, however we are talking about an accident between a cycle (30 kgs?) and NHC. This incident has received coverage in the local papers and was surprised at the extent of damage to the NHC. I will try and put up photos.
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Old 1st July 2008, 17:48   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
Going by the description of NHC's state, it appears that it would have hit something other than the cycle to deform like that. If it is going to deform to such a great extent for such relatively low impacts, one can only imagine how safe it will be at high speed heavy impacts.
I too am inclined to believe that the car should have hit something else after it had hit the boy before coming to halt, like a road side barricade or a lamp post or another stationary thing...

After he hit the cyclist, he would have panicked and left the car to stop on its own, instead of taking it in control and it could have hit something stationery, before it came to a stop.

The Punekar Blog Archive A national-level cyclist was injured by another youth’s car

Please check the above article. The boy was driving the car at breakneck speed with 3 girls inside.....
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Old 1st July 2008, 18:20   #59
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Jubilee Hills #45 I saw a blue Civic whiz at a high speed.

I was coming in from a side road on my Roots Vibrosonic loaded Thunderbird and the biker in front of me was slow.
Thank God, I did not sound my horn. With the way they blast this guy would have panicked and gone straight into the path of this car.

and about this car. he went from his 100 to 0 as the KBR intersection was just coming up.

EDIT: I am sorry it went ot. feel it so after posting. But maybe the quick acceleration of the Honda gives these guys the wrong idea.
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Old 1st July 2008, 18:50   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post


the thickness of the sheet metal can easily be judged by just pressing the bonnet, or even by lifting the bonnet. lift a tata car's or palios bonnet and you will feel the weight. then lift the honda citys / maruti's and u will fell like they are too light.
recently marutis have played a joke by using the thinnest sheet metal on the dezires boot lid.

these cars are designed for more FE due to which the sheet metal used is very thin. even thinner sheetmetals are easy to work for fancy shapes like honda city's.

though the frame is made stronger in minor impacts the owner has to pay a lot to mend them.
1)

The thickness what we are able to access is outside one only. The weight of the hood or trunk are not perfect qualifiers to judge the safety and ability/stiffness of the chassis. The modern day technology, " Tailored Blanks " , make it very easier for the manufacturers to vary the thickness of sheet metal as per the specific location. For example if the locaition is very critical like crumple zone or A-pillar, the thickness will be more. At other places where the thickness is not very important, the thickness can be reduced.


2)

IMO:
The hoods in the present era are designed to cave in if they receive weight on them. This is for pedestrian safety. If the pedestrian lands on the hood after impact, then the hood will cave in upto some extent and absorb the energy. This will result into less impact on the pedestrian. Recently the law in Europe makes it mandatory for all cars to have a distance of 10 centimeters between the hood and the engine. This will enable more pedestrian safety. Here because of the above mentioned reason, the hoods may be light in weight.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 1st July 2008 at 19:00.
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