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Old 28th November 2009, 15:56   #31
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In a way, it is typical of govt., trying to palm off its responsibilities to auto manufacturers. We all know what happened to the drive meant for banning vehicles older than 15 years. In India, laws are fantastic, but implementation is abysmal. This is another stunt by the Govt. to just match the initiatives announced by US and China. If I am not wrong, the world weather change forum is meeting next month and this is just paper action by our great politico-bureaucrat nexus.
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Old 12th June 2011, 20:23   #32
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Default Fuel efficiency norms coming soon!

Fuel efficiency norm is going to be made mandatory by the govt.

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After several years of delays, India will soon move to set passenger vehicle fuel economy standards, most likely by the end of 2010.
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh recently intervened to end an impasse between the ministries of power and road transport over which agency would determine and administer the standards, and under what statutory authority. The Ministry of Power’s Bureau of Energy Efficiency, which initiated the regulatory process three years ago, will now proceed with finalizing the regulation and a complementary labelling scheme.

Now there are 2 important facts

1) OEM fleet average

Fuel efficiency for any OEM will be done by considering the total amount of CO2 emitted. It basically means sum of no. of cars sold multiplied by its CO2 emission. Now this average has to be more than a certain limit or else the OEM has to pay a price (penalty). This is supposed to encourage OEMs to sell more fuel effecient vehicles.

Test agencies have compiled the emission of all the models currently sold and the OEMs have provided the sales figure. Using these, points are plotted in a graph.
X axis being the weight category
Y axis being the CO2 emission (in gm/km)


Now a regression line is plotted. (this is for year 2007 I believe). Now they are making a new line with approx 30% less margin. And the manufacturers have to abide by that.


2) Individual model FE

Now regarding individual models there is supposed to be a rating system. Like AC and Fridge. This is to make the customer understand how fuel efficient is the car compared to its competitors. It will be based on CO2 emissions as well. There are several proposals but till now there is none these is acceptable to all OEMs.


- One of the proposals was to give a 5 star to the most FE vehicle in that weight category and a 1 star to the least. Problem: a hybrid which sells only a few in number can make all cars below 3 stars.
- Another proposal was to have a band +/-7.5% around the regression line to be rated as 3 star. Over that 4 and 5 starts. Problem: Increasing FE by 7.5% is not a matter of joke. So most probably all the cars will be stuck in 3 star only. Thereby not having any significance.


So what do you think should be the correct way of rating FE?
Do you find the FE rating useful or would you like to stick with the conventional ARAI Fe?
And do you think FE should be based on inertia category or engine displacement?



@ mods: Please merge the thread if any similar thread exists.

Last edited by oxyzen : 12th June 2011 at 20:27.
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Old 12th June 2011, 20:59   #33
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Default re: Fuel efficiency norms coming soon!

A good proposal by the government I believe. So with this regulation no cars will require to be taken out of production. Just that they will align all the cars available under each ratings.

Negatives to expect?
  • Will this see the manufactures getting rid of their power machines from the future line ups to improve their OEM average [Like the 1.6 petrol engines]?
  • Also I hope manufacturers don't tune their cars only for efficiency thereby taking the fun off driving [pick up].
It would have been nice if the government also had some more parameters in place. Like a minimum cap on power, torque, 0-100 timings along with the FE. This would have ensured that manufactures have to make engines which are above average in all aspects. Or am I expecting a bit too much ?

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 12th June 2011 at 21:03.
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Old 13th June 2011, 10:26   #34
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Default re: Fuel efficiency norms coming soon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Negatives to expect?
It would have been nice if the government also had some more parameters in place. Like a minimum cap on power, torque, 0-100 timings along with the FE. This would have ensured that manufactures have to make engines which are above average in all aspects. Or am I expecting a bit too much ?
This is exactly the problem I am worried about. It is easy to detune performance for the interest of FE. Use taller gearing and so on. Till now these practises are common.
However, there is one more practice, that is to reduce the weight of the car to improve emissions. Improves performance as well. But with this regulation, companies may be intimated to put dead weight in their vehicle and put it in the next innertia catagory thereby availing more margin.

Last edited by oxyzen : 13th June 2011 at 10:34.
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Old 13th June 2011, 12:25   #35
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Default Re: Fuel effeciency norm

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
Fuel efficiency norm is going to be made mandatory by the govt.

So what do you think should be the correct way of rating FE?
Do you find the FE rating useful or would you like to stick with the conventional ARAI Fe?
And do you think FE should be based on inertia category or engine displacement?
I dont think FE can be any yardstick

Consider this case:
A Figo Petrol
Vs
Swift Petrol

Swift is 200 Kgs lighter, has got 165/80 tyres and a zippy engine
Figo which is a clean 1250 Kgs, solid as they come and running on 175/65 tyres and an engine that needs to be redlined to enjoy its full prowess.

So, are you going to increase tax on the Figo that it returns to low FE?

Then all cars will have to go the Etios way. Incredibly low weight and very thin tyres.

Then who would care about safety? Where will the handling and stability for the cars come from? Will up sizing tyres be against law?

IMO, emissions can be the only criteria
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Old 29th October 2013, 02:15   #36
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Default Re: Fuel efficiency norm for cars ready. EDIT : Coming our way in 2011

Governments implementation of fuel efficiency norms to come only in 2017

In order to bring down the amount of fuel consumed by vehicles in the country, the Indian government will notify carmakers about stringent fuel-efficiency norms that they must fulfil only next year, delaying the deadline for implementation to at-least 2017.

The landmark move that was supposed to be announced in 2010 but has been delayed over the past three years due to a deadlock between the power ministry on one side and the heavy industries & the road ministries on the other, over a clause concerning the weight of vehicles.

“In terms of efficiency, one of the difficult areas (to regulate) is transport and fuel norms. We will move forward another year as far as mandatory fuel norms are concerned,” said B.K. Chaturvedi, Planning Commission member in-charge of Energy, in a Livemint report.

The two phased strategy devised by the government is to reduce fuel consumption of vehicles by 20%, which currently stands at 16.6 kmpl. In the first phase (2017) carmakers will have to achieve an average of 18.1kmpl by reducing the CO2 emissions to 129g of CO2/km; and in the second (2022), to 20.79kmpl by reducing CO2 emissions to 113g of CO2/km.

“If they announce it now than the rollout period should be 2018 but auto industry has agreed on reducing the lead time by one year and to launch this in 2017 and, therefore, the 2nd phase in 2022,” said Vishnu Mathur, director general of the Society of Indian Automobile Manufacturers (SIAM), in the report.

The delay has been caused due to the industry's demand to increase weight in the second period, as diesel engines and batteries could push the weight of cars up, added Mathur. “In a growing economy, our consumers are moving towards higher weight vehicles. You can’t control that.”

However the industry has now agreed to keeping the weight constant through the two phases, given that lighter vehicles are more fuel-efficient.

Vehicles will no doubt get more fuel efficient with the improvement of engine technology and introduction of hybrid systems. However with the weight requirement kept constant to achieve these efficiency figures, car makers will have to make use of different materials for construction, which will not only boost efficiency but also make cars safer.
Another issue that is holding back vehicles from achieving better efficiency figures is the non availability of higher octane fuel in India. The government should look into boosting the minimum octane rating of fuel sold in the country which will allow carmakers to tune engines to run at higher compression ratios.

India is already one of the most demanding regions to sell cars in given the inherent obsession of buyers with overall value. With the necessary actions to improve efficiency of vehicles, the country could emerge as a test-bed for manufacturers to maker greener, cheaper and better vehicles.

http://www.wheelsunplugged.com/news/...only-2017/2323
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Old 14th May 2015, 10:03   #37
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Default Re: Fuel efficiency norm for cars ready. EDIT : Coming our way in 2011

A slew of announcements on Safety, Recalls, Scrapping of old cars and now mileage!

Government fixes new car mileage at 18.2 km/litre April 2017 .

Quote:
Indian cars are likely to deliver some extra miles on every litre of fuel as the government has notified fuel efficiency guidelines that auto makers must follow from April 2017.
This is a 15% increase over the existing mileage for automobiles sold across the country.
That means, an auto maker can still sell cars that deliver less than 18.2 km. But it needs to make sure that it also sells vehicles that offer higher mileage so that the average of all models meets the rule.

From April 2022, the average will be lifted to 22 kmpl. Separate standards are likely to be announced for trucks and buses.

http://auto.economictimes.indiatimes...wards/47277081

Last edited by volkman10 : 14th May 2015 at 10:04.
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Old 14th May 2015, 11:18   #38
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Default Re: Fuel efficiency norm for cars ready. EDIT : Coming our way in 2011

Great news. But this fuel efficiency norm must be introduced simultaneously with the safety norms. I mean the govt must not give in to industry pressure and dilute the proposed safety standards.
Else, we might see even lighter and flimsier cars.
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Old 14th May 2015, 12:48   #39
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Default Re: Fuel efficiency norm for cars ready. EDIT : Coming our way in 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by anuragn View Post
Great news. But this fuel efficiency norm must be introduced simultaneously with the safety norms. I mean the govt must not give in to industry pressure and dilute the proposed safety standards.
Else, we might see even lighter and flimsier cars.
The safety norm, in the form of mandatory crash test, is also being implemented. I just read it in ET.

Link to the article:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/47274743.cms
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Old 14th May 2015, 13:12   #40
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Default Re: Fuel efficiency norm for cars ready. EDIT : Coming our way in 2011

Quote from the news article:
Quote:
According to an agency executive, benefits in terms of fuel savings from this could be more than Rs 90,000 crore a year for India.
What about the money wasted in terms of time and fuel waiting at long toll ques?
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Old 14th May 2015, 13:20   #41
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Default Re: Fuel efficiency norm for cars ready. EDIT : Coming our way in 2011

Great news this fuel efficiency norm is!
A fine balancing act by auto OEMs for light-weighting the cars, increasing crash safety safeguards and make a product which is still essentially carrying the legacy (eg fun to drive Hondas, reliable Suzukis and unpredictable Tatas ) will be the most entertaining and ultimately horrifying thing to watch.
We are already seeing the strain of being fuel efficient has had Honda cut weight (and costs) mindlessly in their products.
Let us hope we have some engineering solution to this rather than just a management directive of filling product attribute quadrants and foregoing one of the parameters
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Old 14th May 2015, 13:21   #42
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Default Re: Fuel efficiency norm for cars ready. EDIT : Coming our way in 2011

I am not entirely in support of this norm. At this rate, most of the petrol cars and big diesels are going to be out. Even the small car club will struggle to meet this average.

I support efficiency. Let it be down to the manufacturer to publish city and highway cycle numbers and you as a customer decide if the vehicle satisfies your requirement.

A move like this is going to push manufacturers to de tune even further and that will be the end of the already starved fun to drive car market.

Get the infrastructure sorted first.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 14th May 2015 at 13:23.
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Old 14th May 2015, 13:58   #43
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Default Re: Fuel efficiency norm for cars ready. EDIT : Coming our way in 2011

So now , we shall see most manufacturers with a 2 cyl 25 bhp nano like car which gives a 50 kmpl (ARAI) avg to keepe thier mean averages of fuel economy high .

Even though that car will barely sell 50 units a month .
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Old 14th May 2015, 14:36   #44
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Default Re: Fuel efficiency norm for cars ready. EDIT : Coming our way in 2011

The government has also notified crash test details as per the news article. As with any "standard" efficiency data point, there will be lot of technical if and buts around it. However it is a step in the right direction and slowly and surely the industry and consumers will evolve.

******** From ET *********
The standards are expected to take India into the league of a few advanced nations, like the US, Japan, Germany and China which strictly enforce such rules and carry harsh penalties for violation. The finer details for the implementation and procedures for penalties would be decided by the Ministry of Road Transport and Highways.

Standards have been framed by the Bureau of Energy Efficiency. An agency executive said benefits in terms of fuel saving from this could be more than Rs 90,000 crore a year for India. Even as cars will get heavier - as they will have to strengthen body structure and bring in more features as the government has notified crash test standards, to be followed from October 2017 - the new policy intervention would lead to improved mileage in vehicles and bring direct benefits to consumers. Average weight of vehicles has been kept at 1,145 kg to determine fuel efficiency.
********************
See more at http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/47274488.cms

The Gazette notification is available at MORTH website at http://morth.nic.in/showfile.asp?lid=1680
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Old 16th May 2015, 15:13   #45
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Default Re: Fuel efficiency norm for cars ready. EDIT : Coming our way in 2011

If you are specifying fuel efficiency norms based on ideal conditions, provide those ideal conditions to your citizens. ARAI mileage figures are a joke as no Indian citizen is fortunate enough to test these numbers with his cars as the conditions in which he has to drive the car are far from ideal. Maybe ARAI should include another number for 'Typical Indian traffic choked, non smooth, non tarred, potholed road cycle '

Improve the road infrastructure and see how much fuel it saves the nation, instead of putting the onus on the already struggling Auto Industry. As it is we pay among the highest in the world for the precious fuel. That's incentive enough to buy fuel efficient cars.
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