Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 29th March 2010, 01:24   #76
BHPian
 
prateekm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mumbai & BLR
Posts: 756
Thanked: 311 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grafin View Post
Lets assume the Santa Fe comes for 17lakhs, id rather go for a CRV which i guess is a lakh or 2 more expensive, but is better in terms of snob value and reliability.The only reason one would go for a Hyundai, is because its cheap.

And if its cheap, u would definitely have to compromise with something.
Sir, CR-V is not 2 lacs expensive, but 6-7l more expensive, that too for the base version. What features do they give? 2 SRS Airbags That's something even an i10 gives for 1/5th of the price! Mind you, Hyundai's are reliable. To frame your sentence in a better way, it ain't cheap, it's more VFM.


Quote:
I know im being negative abt the Santa Fe, but i was positive abt the Terracan and a lil with the Tucson, and what happened to them?
Don't know about the Terracan but the Tucson had a great engine and features comparable to the CR-V. It had good NVH levels, good pickup and a nice engine.

Quote:
My dislike towards Hyundai is not personal(my bro owns a Xing infact), but i dont want to see another Hyundai which is all show and no go, Over rated, underpowered and over priced.
Then what is Honda Jazz? Over rated? Check. Underpowered? Check. Over Priced? Hell YES!

Quote:
Have you seen a Korean Manufacturer dominate a car market which has Ford, Vauxhall, Citroen, Fiat, Honda,Nissan and Toyota(Ive omitted ze germans here) as players in any European country?
Mind you, Hyundai is a pretty new company as compared to Honda, Fiat and Ford. Still, it has managed to create a place for itself in the Top 4 manufacturers in the world.



Here's some Wiki Gyan about Hyundai's achievements in America! Must read
  • In 2003, according to Consumer Reports, Hyundai’s reliability rankings tied Honda.

  • In 2006, J.D. Power and Associates' quality ranking, overall the Hyundai brand ranked 3rd, just behind Porsche and Lexus, and beating long time rival Toyota.
  • In 2007, Hyundai's midsize SUV, the Santa Fe, earned the 2007 Top Safety Pick award by IIHS
  • In 2008, Hyundai Santa Fe and Hyundai Elantra were awarded 2008 Consumer Reports "top picks".
  • In 2009, the Hyundai Genesis luxury sedan was named 2009 North American Car of the Year, the first for Hyundai. It also received 2009 Ward's 10 Best Engines award
  • In 2009, 6 models of Hyundai/Kia cars earned the Top Safety Award by IIHS, better than Nissan/Infiniti.
  • In 2009, Hyundai/Kia vehicles were named as “least expensive vehicles to insure”. Low rates tend to reflect a vehicle’s safety.
  • In 2009, According to the Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) fuel economy report, Hyundai is the most fuel-efficient automaker in America. Hyundai surpassed every major automaker—even Toyota and Honda.
  • In 2010, According to Consumer Reports reliability survey, Hyundai (including Kia) ranked 4th best automaker in US, ahead of Nissan. The ratings reflect the performance, comfort, utility and reliability of more than 280 vehicles that the magazine recently tested, according to the report.

Last edited by prateekm : 29th March 2010 at 01:28.
prateekm is online now  
Old 29th March 2010, 02:21   #77
BHPian
 
AlokSriva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fremont
Posts: 482
Thanked: 55 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grafin View Post
Lets assume the Santa Fe comes for 17lakhs, id rather go for a CRV which i guess is a lakh or 2 more expensive, but is better in terms of snob value and reliability.The only reason one would go for a Hyundai, is because its cheap.

And if its cheap, u would definitely have to compromise with something.
With due respect, if something comes cheap, it does not necessarily translate to inferior quality (though the converse might not be true). But you do have a point, if I am buying a product priced lesser, there surely is a compromise with something - and that something is BRAND.

However, you would be delighted to know that in today's world, barring a few exceptions, all car manufacturers provide state of the art products to their customers depending on the price point at which a product is being sold. (And trust me, I am not bringing in price point as an escape clause for myself. It is pure logic, the more a manufacturer invests in techincal upgarade of a product, higher would be the product priced till the break even is achieved)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grafin View Post
And speaking of silver spoons, a person who can afford a Santa Fe at whatever price its going to be, can definitely afford a CRV or Endeavour too if not Ze Germans. U wouldnt have to part with an arm or leg for that.
You again missed the point - it is not the cost of acquiring a product, it is also the cost of maintenance - together both contribute towards the TCO.
And it is no rocket science that TCO of any given German car is higher than a similar non-German product.

PS - since Prateek has already provided valuable insights on other questions raised by you, I would spare myself the effort
AlokSriva is offline  
Old 29th March 2010, 09:11   #78
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,376
Thanked: 528 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grafin View Post
Its looks rather ridiculous, the performance isnt that remarkable and its uncool.

Its nothing in compared to what Ze Germans have to offer.

And Hyundai is probably going to price it on the sidelines of the CRV and Endeavour.

The end result is yet to be seen but i think its going to end up like the Terracan and Tucson.

Hyundai is good at making small zippy hatchbacks and i think they should stick at it rather than bring a soft roader into the market.
If someone has a money to by a Toureg or Q7 they will not be looking at Santa Fe. But within the market space it operates, it is a very competant car (like any other Hyundai cars)
There are two aspects to buying a car (or any product). First is the merits of the car itself and second is what perception, image it creates among people and how cool or uncool it looks to drive/to be driven in one. I agree both have their place but for a person who thinks rationally, first aspect should matter more.
Guna is offline  
Old 29th March 2010, 11:00   #79
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 92
Thanked: 80 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grafin View Post
Lets assume the Santa Fe comes for 17lakhs, id rather go for a CRV which i guess is a lakh or 2 more expensive, but is better in terms of snob value and reliability.The only reason one would go for a Hyundai, is because its cheap.

And if its cheap, u would definitely have to compromise with something.

And speaking of silver spoons, a person who can afford a Santa Fe at whatever price its going to be, can definitely afford a CRV or Endeavour too if not Ze Germans. U wouldnt have to part with an arm or leg for that.

Topgear UK has conducted customer satisfaction surveys for a number of years now and i havent seen a Hyundai and most importantly the Santa Fe make it in the top 20-30 atleast. If u have a doubt, u can google for the result.

U say abt the Santa Fe's large sales numbers, but i dint find any relevant information regarding the same anywhere. When i googled, one site showed that in the US, the sales of the Santa Fe has dropped by 2%.


I know im being negative abt the Santa Fe, but i was positive abt the Terracan and a lil with the Tucson, and what happened to them?

My dislike towards Hyundai is not personal(my bro owns a Xing infact), but i dont want to see another Hyundai which is all show and no go, Over rated, underpowered and over priced.

Im biased towards the Japs and the Germans coz they make good products.
Have you seen a Korean Manufacturer dominate a car market which has Ford, Vauxhall, Citroen, Fiat, Honda,Nissan and Toyota(Ive omitted ze germans here) as players in any European country?

Hi,
Just one question.Have you used a CRV or a santa fe?
Santa Fe is a global SUV from Hyundai and its one of their best selling models.Do not compare the sales figures in India and they will only show higher sales for CRV.
I have used both these vehicles here in Dubai and Santafe is a much better model .Infact its costlier than CRV here but is selling in good numbers.
praveen_n is offline  
Old 29th March 2010, 12:02   #80
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 101
Thanked: 178 Times
Default

@grafin:
did you know that most of the Indians prefer a 7 seater(santa fe) over a 5 seater(CR-V) suv. So I don't feel that anything can go wronf against the SF except the pricing. I myself live in the UK and I have seen more SF's than the CR-V's.
kau_therock is offline  
Old 29th March 2010, 12:11   #81
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,376
Thanked: 528 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kau_therock View Post
@grafin:
did you know that most of the Indians prefer a 7 seater(santa fe) over a 5 seater(CR-V) suv. So I don't feel that anything can go wronf against the SF except the pricing. I myself live in the UK and I have seen more SF's than the CR-V's.
Besides, Santa Fe is diesel, and would be much better offroad with a lockable 4WD
Guna is offline  
Old 29th March 2010, 16:37   #82
BHPian
 
ranc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Lost somewhere on the Leh Manali hway
Posts: 516
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

I think all of us are going overboard with german, american, japanese, korean lineage. Fact remains every one has its own place and their own pricepoints which make them more vfm then elite. I feel that if Toyota can price its Fortuner right so should have Honda with their CRV and look at the affect it has had already with the endevour's and Captiva's pricing.

Suzuki is a very bad brand in US nobody buy's suzuki but does it make it a bad brand in India, also Hyundai has done its bit in India and established itself as a decent car maker with good a.s.s and they have every right to get into SUV market where they dont have much presence, they also make decent mpv's which do well in other markets and I think they should also bring their mpv's in India.
ranc is offline  
Old 29th March 2010, 17:04   #83
Senior - BHPian
 
romeomidhun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,629
Thanked: 1,880 Times
Default

Whatever be the hype created over Santa Fe, the sales figures will be in 2 digits.

Hyundai can do well in India only in the the Rs 2 - 7 Lakh category. Anything expected better than that is just over-ambitiousness. Be it a new Verna in the 8 - 9 Lakh category or a new Sonata in the 12 - 14 Lakh category.

Status will not come with money every time, but with brand name, it is assured.
romeomidhun is online now  
Old 29th March 2010, 21:23   #84
BHPian
 
Grafin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 218
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Note from the Team-BHP Support : SMS / Slang is STRICTLY prohibited on this community. We would much appreciate your using full & proper English in posts, for the benefit of other forum users.

Please view our board rules carefully before proceeding any further.


Quote:
Originally Posted by prateekm View Post
Sir, CR-V is not 2 lacs expensive, but 6-7l more expensive, that too for the base version. What features do they give? 2 SRS Airbags That's something even an i10 gives for 1/5th of the price! Mind you, Hyundai's are reliable. To frame your sentence in a better way, it ain't cheap, it's more VFM.




Don't know about the Terracan but the Tucson had a great engine and features comparable to the CR-V. It had good NVH levels, good pickup and a nice engine.



Then what is Honda Jazz? Over rated? Check. Underpowered? Check. Over Priced? Hell YES!



Mind you, Hyundai is a pretty new company as compared to Honda, Fiat and Ford. Still, it has managed to create a place for itself in the Top 4 manufacturers in the world.



Here's some Wiki Gyan about Hyundai's achievements in America! Must read
  • In 2003, according to Consumer Reports, Hyundai’s reliability rankings tied Honda.
  • In 2006, J.D. Power and Associates' quality ranking, overall the Hyundai brand ranked 3rd, just behind Porsche and Lexus, and beating long time rival Toyota.
  • In 2007, Hyundai's midsize SUV, the Santa Fe, earned the 2007 Top Safety Pick award by IIHS
  • In 2008, Hyundai Santa Fe and Hyundai Elantra were awarded 2008 Consumer Reports "top picks".
  • In 2009, the Hyundai Genesis luxury sedan was named 2009 North American Car of the Year, the first for Hyundai. It also received 2009 Ward's 10 Best Engines award
  • In 2009, 6 models of Hyundai/Kia cars earned the Top Safety Award by IIHS, better than Nissan/Infiniti.
  • In 2009, Hyundai/Kia vehicles were named as “least expensive vehicles to insure”. Low rates tend to reflect a vehicle’s safety.
  • In 2009, According to the Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) fuel economy report, Hyundai is the most fuel-efficient automaker in America. Hyundai surpassed every major automaker—even Toyota and Honda.
  • In 2010, According to Consumer Reports reliability survey, Hyundai (including Kia) ranked 4th best automaker in US, ahead of Nissan. The ratings reflect the performance, comfort, utility and reliability of more than 280 vehicles that the magazine recently tested, according to the report.

Dint know abt that the price difference, thanks fr d info.

When u lay so much of emphasis on VFM, ud even say for the price of a 3 Series BMW, u can get 2 Sonata Emberas, but that doesnt prove the latter is better than the former does it?


If the Tucson like uve said, had a great engine and good NVH levels(and possibly the ugliest looks), why dint it sell?

Honda Jazz is a top seller in the UK but its over priced here in India.
Accepted your point there, but it is spacious and comfortable and the engine is pretty neat if not too powerful.

Hyundai automobiles was established in 1967 if im not wrong, so they have enough experience although not as much as Honda or Fiat like u pointed out.


In the Awards list, u forgot to mention that a Kia won the Caravan club award for the best car for a caravan
The Renault Megane was once named European car of the year in 2002 or 2003.
But take the customer satisfaction survey conducted by Topgear Uk, u wont see a Hyundai in the top rankings. Which does say something doesnt it?

The Prius was given the award for the best environmental friendly car, but the Polo bluemotion 1.4 was more economic(80mpg) and the residuals were very low too.
In a particular year(08 i think), Jay Leno, Jean-Michel Cousteau and Carroll Shelby named The Chevy Tahoe Hybrid as the Green car of the year. So these awards that uve mentioned is quite pointless.

Last edited by GTO : 30th March 2010 at 09:55. Reason: See Mod Note in your post
Grafin is offline   Received Infraction
Old 29th March 2010, 21:29   #85
BHPian
 
Grafin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 218
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlokSriva View Post
With due respect, if something comes cheap, it does not necessarily translate to inferior quality (though the converse might not be true). But you do have a point, if I am buying a product priced lesser, there surely is a compromise with something - and that something is BRAND.

However, you would be delighted to know that in today's world, barring a few exceptions, all car manufacturers provide state of the art products to their customers depending on the price point at which a product is being sold. (And trust me, I am not bringing in price point as an escape clause for myself. It is pure logic, the more a manufacturer invests in techincal upgarade of a product, higher would be the product priced till the break even is achieved)



You again missed the point - it is not the cost of acquiring a product, it is also the cost of maintenance - together both contribute towards the TCO.
And it is no rocket science that TCO of any given German car is higher than a similar non-German product.

PS - since Prateek has already provided valuable insights on other questions raised by you, I would spare myself the effort
The TCO of Ze Germans is higher i accept, put Honda and Hyundai head to head and its almost the same. Paying extra for the Honda makes sense for snob value at least doesnt it?

A manufacturer like Honda is not going to be caught pants down when the Hyundai Santa Fe does come here, so its jus a matter of time before they revise the price and add more kit.

Man, a lot of Hyundai lovers here.
I thought this place had quite a lot of Petrolheads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
If someone has a money to by a Toureg or Q7 they will not be looking at Santa Fe. But within the market space it operates, it is a very competant car (like any other Hyundai cars)
There are two aspects to buying a car (or any product). First is the merits of the car itself and second is what perception, image it creates among people and how cool or uncool it looks to drive/to be driven in one. I agree both have their place but for a person who thinks rationally, first aspect should matter more.

If u r considering the Santa Fe, u still have the option of the Endeavour, Fortuner, and CRV.

U r spot on when u talk abt the aspects of buying a car, and Hyundai by any means is not going to be cool. So if u go for a balance of merits and X factor, ul end up buying something else in the same category.

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team : Please use the "edit" button if posting within 20 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post.

Also use "Multi Quote" option for quoting Multiple posts.

Last edited by Dippy : 31st March 2010 at 10:18. Reason: See the note at the end of your post
Grafin is offline  
Old 29th March 2010, 21:35   #86
Senior - BHPian
 
thedreamcatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 1,205
Thanked: 61 Times
Default

I am personally kind of with a mixed opinion of the Santa Fe. Like it, but something missing on the looks front. But is it already here. not seen one as yet
thedreamcatcher is offline  
Old 29th March 2010, 21:39   #87
BHPian
 
Grafin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 218
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by praveen_n View Post
Hi,
Just one question.Have you used a CRV or a santa fe?
Santa Fe is a global SUV from Hyundai and its one of their best selling models.Do not compare the sales figures in India and they will only show higher sales for CRV.
I have used both these vehicles here in Dubai and Santafe is a much better model .Infact its costlier than CRV here but is selling in good numbers.

Ive driven the CRV and i liked it.

Eagerly Waiting for the Santa Fe to come to India

A Hyundai priced higher than a Honda?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kau_therock View Post
@grafin:
did you know that most of the Indians prefer a 7 seater(santa fe) over a 5 seater(CR-V) suv. So I don't feel that anything can go wronf against the SF except the pricing. I myself live in the UK and I have seen more SF's than the CR-V's.
Isnt the Hyundai Sonata a grand more expensive than the Kia Magentis in the UK inspite of being the same car underneath?
The reason given by the Hyundai boss to Clarkson(TG) is that, the customer pays more for the Brand(Hyundai)

Just tell me a fact, How cool is it to have a Hyundai there in the UK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
Whatever be the hype created over Santa Fe, the sales figures will be in 2 digits.

Hyundai can do well in India only in the the Rs 2 - 7 Lakh category. Anything expected better than that is just over-ambitiousness. Be it a new Verna in the 8 - 9 Lakh category or a new Sonata in the 12 - 14 Lakh category.

Status will not come with money every time, but with brand name, it is assured.
Cant agree with u more.


Looks like i have some support .

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team : Please use the "edit" button if posting within 20 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post.

Also use "Multi Quote" option for quoting Multiple posts.

Last edited by Dippy : 31st March 2010 at 10:19. Reason: See the note in your post.
Grafin is offline  
Old 29th March 2010, 22:26   #88
BHPian
 
harishnair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Quilon/ Sharjah
Posts: 512
Thanked: 5 Times
Default

The competition in the 19+ lac category is very fierce and it will be almost impossible for a brand like Hyundai to gain foot-hold in the segment.

So, IMO it would be best for Hyundai to bring down the new Tucson (2.0L) instead and price it between 15-17 lacs, there by undercutting most of its competitors.
harishnair is offline  
Old 29th March 2010, 23:17   #89
BHPian
 
AlokSriva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fremont
Posts: 482
Thanked: 55 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grafin View Post
The TCO of Ze Germans is higher i accept, put Honda and Hyundai head to head and its almost the same. Paying extra for the Honda makes sense for snob value at least doesnt it?

A manufacturer like Honda is not going to be caught pants down when the Hyundai Santa Fe does come here, so its jus a matter of time before they revise the price and add more kit.

Man, a lot of Hyundai lovers here.
I thought this place had quite a lot of Petrolheads.
Dude, first things first - have a look at this thread before you post any further -
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/announ...ml#post1801317 (How to MULTI-QUOTE (when replying to a thread) on Team-BHP)

Honda and snob value!! First you decide which world you are in mate. All you talk about is international automotive scene and still consider Honda to be snob!!

I had mentioned at the very onset that I am no fan of Korean products and there is only one Korean thing I have bought all my life - a Samsung refrigerator which broke down exactly a week after its warranty got over. This does not mean I would not appreciate a good product when I see one.

Seems there isn't much coming out of this discussion anyway. I don't think I am adding any value to this thread by engaging in this dialogue - am outta here!
AlokSriva is offline  
Old 29th March 2010, 23:40   #90
BHPian
 
Grafin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 218
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlokSriva View Post
Dude, first things first - have a look at this thread before you post any further -
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/announ...ml#post1801317 (How to MULTI-QUOTE (when replying to a thread) on Team-BHP)

Honda and snob value!! First you decide which world you are in mate. All you talk about is international automotive scene and still consider Honda to be snob!!

I had mentioned at the very onset that I am no fan of Korean products and there is only one Korean thing I have bought all my life - a Samsung refrigerator which broke down exactly a week after its warranty got over. This does not mean I would not appreciate a good product when I see one.

Seems there isn't much coming out of this discussion anyway. I don't think I am adding any value to this thread by engaging in this dialogue - am outta here!

I am in this world allright.
But tell me in India atleast, which would generate more hype and be considered a better car maker- the Honda or Hyundai.

For any car to buy above the 10lakhs rupees mark, any person with average to good car knowledge would say Honda(if compared to Hyundai). The brand is very much respected.
The Vtec and its new avatars are no match for Hyundais.

In the International market, the CRV may not be quite a hit, but the Civic Type R and the Accord is. Not to mention the S2000.

I had enough of responding to pokes myself, but id like to make my point clear before i stop responding here.
Grafin is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hyundai Santa Fe facelift spotted testing in Korea Aditya The International Automotive Scene 8 6th June 2015 12:20
Scoop! 3rd-Gen Hyundai Santa Fe spotted testing in India. EDIT: Now launched. GTO The Indian Car Scene 219 28th February 2014 20:06
New Elantra & Santa Fe not coming this year says hyundai Customer Relations timj The Indian Car Scene 0 10th September 2008 16:30
Rumour? Hyundai Motor to launch Santa Fe at Rs 8.5 lakh!? sgmuser The Indian Car Scene 87 21st January 2008 19:22


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 19:01.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks