Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 26th July 2008, 07:23   #31
Senior - BHPian
 
mjothi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,252
Thanked: 216 Times
Default

There was talks like the Standard Car company in Chennai was purposely made to close by the Govt, to bring in Suzuki in early 80's.
I am not sure of how confirmed this news, but was in talks. I wont be surprised if it is true, which lead to the success of small cars.
mjothi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2008, 08:48   #32
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Delhi
Posts: 477
Thanked: 24 Times
Default


This dicussion has taken a totally diffrent turn than i expected. Evryone is trashing or defending the 800 What about Maruti??

I think Maruti has lost the plot! They seem to be taking thier success for granted. As a manufacturer maruti is solely concentrating on making money by selling anthing and everything. They are too focused on the masses and not in touch with the changing India.

I would say this launch shows a desperate attempt to counter Nano + make more money outta 800, especially when it had one of its worst showings last quarter

I find it horrrfying that M Van stills sells with ultra skinny tires, and 800 with its flimsy body, Wagor E has not been updated, Swift diesel lousy build and Dzire is all maruti could come up with as an exuse for a mid range sedan!

I have no respect for Maruti as a responsible, intelligent or innovative company

Elito
Elito11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2008, 09:11   #33
Senior - BHPian
 
greenhorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: TN-14
Posts: 6,837
Thanked: 1,312 Times
Default

I seriously hope that they let it go out in style , like the zen carbon. Please syzuki, let the 800 sing its own swan song. We'd really appreciate it if you launched a limited edition 800 with one of your tiny turbo engines, two doors , and fancy trim
......something like this Wicked Alto Works

Last edited by greenhorn : 26th July 2008 at 09:18.
greenhorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2008, 09:50   #34
BHPian
 
BurningHeart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 427
Thanked: 56 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post

Its a different story if M800 remains unchanged after nano becomes a hit. However, till then, i wouldn't call an M800 trash!
No matter what, I will never call M800 a trash just like you wouldnt trash your grandpa. M800 has done more to change the automotive scene in India in the most difficult times. Nano is doing all that in the most shining times of India.

Perceptions vary, but I do agree with all of you that the original note from one of the BHP'ians was too distasteful.

BH.
BurningHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2008, 11:36   #35
Distinguished - BHPian
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bangalore / TVM
Posts: 8,945
Thanked: 16,632 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chncar View Post
If it was such a revolutionary model it would have changed the global motoring industry like the beetle, golf, corolla, etc. At best you can say among the trash it was not the worst.
Toyota Corolla is not just a model of car. Its a series of cars that changed the way the world drives. Its 10 generations of cars sold over 40 years!

Volkswagen Golf is actually four generations of cars sold, and while the Beetle is an exception here, it was sold over 60 years in a highly restricted and war- affected era.

Now, not comparing the M800 with any of these cars, it deserves respect in its own right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chncar View Post
But they are different thing from how good a car is.
And how would you define a good car?

I think a car that met the needs of the target market can be qualified as a good car. Can't it be? If technical sophistication is everything, then even the new cars entering our market are not good cars by international standards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elito11 View Post
I find it horrrfying that M Van stills sells with ultra skinny tires, and 800 with its flimsy body, Wagor E has not been updated, Swift diesel lousy build and Dzire is all maruti could come up with as an exuse for a mid range sedan!

I have no respect for Maruti as a responsible, intelligent or innovative company
I think you mean Maruti Omni and WagonR. Anyways-

With all due respect sir, which 'responsible, intelligent, innovative company' do you respect? And why those companies didn't challenge Maruti with better products?

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 26th July 2008 at 11:37.
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2008, 11:47   #36
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC/MAA
Posts: 1,333
Thanked: 194 Times
Default

The M800 has served it's purpose. Greedy Maruti has been flogging this car for too long in the Indian Auto market. It is time to let it go. If sentimentality was the only factor that prevails over progress and business sense, then automotively speaking, we should all be aspiring to drive an Ambassador Avigo , the new 21st century car from Hindustan Motors, and not cry ourselves hoarse discussing the plethora of the latest but exceedingly dull economy boxes on wheels that have flooded the auto scene here.
nickatnite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2008, 11:56   #37
BHPian
 
S_budhiraj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 275
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Another Dead Try!

For just few stickers and parcel tray, they are charging 5200 bugs more..?

At 216000 (Ex showroom Delhi) common Maruti

Now the Spark with AC is for just 266000 (Ex showroom Delhi), Bigger, Better & Class ahead
S_budhiraj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2008, 12:30   #38
BHPian
 
sridhga's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 179
Thanked: 13 Times
Default

In north east India you can see some of the steepest roads in the world. One such example is the Pankhabari road from Bhagdogra to Darjeeling. This road has an alternate too and that is called hillcart road. Most private cars take that alternate road. Taxi drivers take Pankhabari. 90% of those taxis are Maruti Omnis. Omni shares the same engine as 800. I cannot call 800 'a trash'. But it sold well in a protected environment as a Government company. It had no competition. Now others like Tata are trying with their 'Nano'. Because of a closed enviroment we are a 40 year old suzuki model even now. But now we are changing. But let me acknowledge that the suspensions on those Omnis was so bad that it gave me back aches

Last edited by sridhga : 26th July 2008 at 12:32.
sridhga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2008, 12:35   #39
BHPian
 
Knight Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 267
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

God, When will they stop?
Knight Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2008, 13:18   #40
Senior - BHPian
 
humyum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Leicester/Mumbai
Posts: 2,306
Thanked: 2,186 Times
Default

When people like common man and 800 lovers stop buying it,is when they should and will stop and i dont see that happening for atleast some years now.
Till then maruti keep up the good work and keep it rollling.
humyum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2008, 14:29   #41
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: zxc
Posts: 3,394
Thanked: 658 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chncar View Post
It was a success due to Maruti's government sponsored monopoly.

Its not that it was a great or 'scenario changing' car, its just that there were not any competitors and those that were there were even older trash. If it was such a revolutionary model it would have changed the global motoring industry like the beetle, golf, corolla, etc. At best you can say among the trash it was not the worst.

Sentimental reasons by persons who used to own it etc are understandable, but they are different thing from how good a car is.
Before maruti people were waiting for their amby and fiat to be delivered to them for months.
Forget Maruti, I guess Amby is still Govt lobbied company. govt buys 40% of their crap at steep DGS&D prices.
SirAlec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2008, 15:16   #42
Senior - BHPian
 
aaggoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vadodara
Posts: 4,675
Thanked: 1,426 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chncar View Post

It was a success due to Maruti's government sponsored monopoly.
Right now, the government is not so protective. Still after so many years, Maruti 800 sells 5-6K each month. Why even today, no manufacturer except Tata is ready to take the challenge and develop a car that is much better than Maruti 800 at the same price ?

Its also matter of satisfaction offered to owners. Maruti 800 fullfills the dreams of average middle class person and also offers satisfaction.
Its not a developed US market where people can change cars easily. For them its more like everyday commodity. But in India its different, it all about dream.
Maruti 800 fulfills the dream with reliable, affordable performance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chncar View Post

Its not that it was a great or 'scenario changing' car, its just that there were not any competitors and those that were there were even older trash. If it was such a revolutionary model it would have changed the global motoring industry like the beetle, golf, corolla, etc. At best you can say among the trash it was not the worst.
Beetle, Golf, Corolla did change the global motoring industry, but not Indian motoring industry. The present state of these cars in India are NA, overpriced sedan and reasonablely successful for Beetle, Golf and Corolla respectively.

If they are so good cars ( Beetle, Gold, Corolla, etc, ) why in now-not-so-protective environment they are unable to change the scene of Indian automotive industry ?


No other car in history has managed to change the local automotive industry the way Maruti 800 has done. Not even Bettle.

I believe, lets call this move wrong from Maruti, but we just cant ignore the fact that Maruti 800 is a good car for its price, is affordable to run and maintain. It still does what it was supposed to do.
aaggoswami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2008, 15:45   #43
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: India
Posts: 4,346
Thanked: 16 Times
Default Wise words.

Quote:
I believe, lets call this move wrong from Maruti, but we just cant ignore the fact that Maruti 800 is a good car for its price, is affordable to run and maintain. It still does what it was supposed to do.
Wise words! This is the way I believe too.
Of course! Maruti could've done a lot better with 800s but who knows why they didn't.

But even today, after all the monopoly has disappeared and competition has come out with full force, why do people choose to buy an 800? Why do people choose it as their dream car? Why do children boast about their papa's 800? Why do people does pujas with it? Why do people take care of it better than their own souls? Why does Maruti take the pain of running a separate assembly line for this decades old thingy?
Without any doubt, there're many questions which are the answers to the survival of 800 even today.

But when cars like Chevy spark etc.. come out with alarming price tags, any sane management would use some marketing trick to keep the interest alive. And that's exactly what we're seeing now in this uniq edition.
Sorry, but I don't see TRASH!
speedzak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2008, 17:44   #44
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Delhi
Posts: 477
Thanked: 24 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post

I think you mean Maruti Omni and WagonR. Anyways-

With all due respect sir, which 'responsible, intelligent, innovative company' do you respect? And why those companies didn't challenge Maruti with better products?
Hi

Honda, Hyundai and BMW (In India)

- These companies are challenging Maruti in whatever segment they are present.
- Maruti had one of its worst showings this quarter
- I am inclined to believe that either Maruti will cease to be the Dominant Player in Indian market in the next 3 years and if it dosen't will acquire a reputation for 'cheap amd kaamchalou' cars (which IMO it still does)

I think i will be repeating myself here from another thread when i say i find Maruti severely lacking in Vision and Strategy. Very briefly lemme state why

- Its bad business sense to sell a car like SX4 and Omni/800 from the same showroom/banner and expect SX4 to challenge NHC. Internationally i wonder if we could find a manufacturer that spreads itself across so many segments

- Maruti was a small (800/zen) /premium (esteem/ baleno) /quality (Zen) car manufacturer at various points in its journey in India, currently i don't know what it wants to be?

Irresposible and incompetent

- It dosen't care to refresh/update the Gypsy
- Its flogging 800 for petty cash
- Omni has more variants than a ipod
- I have no clue what is DZire? Is it a 'mid segment car from a major manufacturer in india' or some cheap perfume?
- Remember when Santro changed to Xing? What did Maruti do? - Give Wagon R a sticker job, clear lens headlamp and a new advert
- Alto vx1.1 sold like 10 percent of entire Alto range BUT why withdraw it? Everything just isn't about money, what about image?
- Is it not irresponsible to sell Omni with those bicycle tires?
- Don't you feel shortchanged with the build quality of Swift?

As most things even Maruti will be judged with regards to its peers

Sure Getz didn't sell much, But Hyundai believes in the product and continues to sell it.

Innovation is this IMO - Santro 1.0 to Santro 1.1 to Xing (it was a comprehensive revamp) to i10 to i10 kappa

Getz - Getz Prime and 1.1 - i20 (it will be out in Oct 08)

Accent - Accent Tornado - Viva Crdi - Verna

Just my opinion. I hope you get my point.

Elito

Last edited by Elito11 : 26th July 2008 at 17:46.
Elito11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2008, 20:08   #45
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: zxc
Posts: 3,394
Thanked: 658 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elito11 View Post
Hi

Honda, Hyundai and BMW (In India)

- These companies are challenging Maruti in whatever segment they are present.
- Maruti had one of its worst showings this quarter
- I am inclined to believe that either Maruti will cease to be the Dominant Player in Indian market in the next 3 years and if it dosen't will acquire a reputation for 'cheap amd kaamchalou' cars (which IMO it still does)

I think i will be repeating myself here from another thread when i say i find Maruti severely lacking in Vision and Strategy. Very briefly lemme state why

- Its bad business sense to sell a car like SX4 and Omni/800 from the same showroom/banner and expect SX4 to challenge NHC. Internationally i wonder if we could find a manufacturer that spreads itself across so many segments

- Maruti was a small (800/zen) /premium (esteem/ baleno) /quality (Zen) car manufacturer at various points in its journey in India, currently i don't know what it wants to be?

Irresposible and incompetent

- It dosen't care to refresh/update the Gypsy
- Its flogging 800 for petty cash
- Omni has more variants than a ipod
- I have no clue what is DZire? Is it a 'mid segment car from a major manufacturer in india' or some cheap perfume?
- Remember when Santro changed to Xing? What did Maruti do? - Give Wagon R a sticker job, clear lens headlamp and a new advert
- Alto vx1.1 sold like 10 percent of entire Alto range BUT why withdraw it? Everything just isn't about money, what about image?
- Is it not irresponsible to sell Omni with those bicycle tires?
- Don't you feel shortchanged with the build quality of Swift?

As most things even Maruti will be judged with regards to its peers

Sure Getz didn't sell much, But Hyundai believes in the product and continues to sell it.

Innovation is this IMO - Santro 1.0 to Santro 1.1 to Xing (it was a comprehensive revamp) to i10 to i10 kappa

Getz - Getz Prime and 1.1 - i20 (it will be out in Oct 08)

Accent - Accent Tornado - Viva Crdi - Verna

Just my opinion. I hope you get my point.

Elito
WHat bicycle tyre!! You wan't to install a 17 incher in that or what?
When mini was launched, it was similarly criticized, but when it won the monte carlo rally four consecutive year in a row (one was sinfully disqualified) it became a legend.

AFAIK Hyundai, Ford and Honda is fooling indians. Check how many versions of santro came, they did R&D at the cost of customers, 900cc, 1.1L, Zip plus, eRLX and finally Xing, review the price variation yourself.

ANd yeah i10 has the same tweaked 1.1L engine of Santro on new kHoka, so I must say old wine in a new bottle.

Same goes with Honda. When NHC was launched, people were flattered with its looks, everybody bought a C segment car at D segment price. Little did they know that it had old engine. Vtec was not even an option.
When every body was happy they launched the ZX with Vtec. Didn't they had VTEC in india before. So it was clear, if they launched the ZX before who would buy their plain jane IDSI.

Same goes with Ford.

AS far as maruti is concerned they launched the Swift as it is, 5.75lac you had ABS and Airbag, now beat that. Check the Diesel MJD, i personally didin't like it, but everybody is liking it considering the price and package factor. I think Palio is a better package, but see Swift Vdi still sells, and last time i checked it had 1.5 months waiting period.

Last edited by SirAlec : 26th July 2008 at 20:11.
SirAlec is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Volkswagen-Suzuki to roll out Rs 2.5-lakh car in India H2O The Indian Car Scene 18 17th March 2011 18:02
Honda plans to roll out small car by 2012 to take on Toyota, Suzuki. aaggoswami The Indian Car Scene 20 22nd December 2009 22:21
Maruti plans to roll out new compact car navdeep The Indian Car Scene 15 8th March 2007 12:31
Maruti's own car to roll out in 3 years thainogkok The Indian Car Scene 5 21st December 2005 12:31
Suzuki will roll out Concept S in india! S350L-E240 The Indian Car Scene 0 11th May 2004 14:59


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 04:38.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks