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Old 19th August 2008, 13:09   #166
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The head + heart double whammy appeal of crdi is simply hard to beat. I just returned from a 1800km Goan round trip. We'd taken the NH4 where the C220's driveability and high speed cruising attributes were absolutely phenomenal. You don't need to downshift even for an overtaking manouveur at 130 kph...simply shove the right pedal into the floor and wait for the torque to take over. Ghat sections were a breeze while arrow-straight stretches had the engine lazily ticking over @ 1,800 rpms.

Get this, we reached Goa using a little over a half tank of diesel. She went on to cover 762 kms before the reserve light came on. Mind you, the tank can gulp down 65 liters of diesel but there isn't any petrol luxury car that can match the range or efficiency.
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Old 19th August 2008, 13:26   #167
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Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
and,wait for it........ It is a Diesel
My then 9 yr old 1992 Prelude Si could do the same and it was a 2.2L petrol from the previous century.

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Get this, we reached Goa using a little over a half tank of diesel. She went on to cover 762 kms before the reserve light came on. Mind you, the tank can gulp down 65 liters of diesel but there isn't any petrol luxury car that can match the range or efficiency.
That's very true. In episode in Top Gear, Jeremy drove a diesel Audi A8 800 miles on a single tank of diesel. Ofcourse he drove it for fuel efficiency revving around 1200 rpm and windows rolled-up without AC but you get the drift.

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Old 19th August 2008, 13:27   #168
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I recently drove two petrols in the city and after driving a diesel, none of them come close.
I have actually been converted into a diesel head.
The two petrols that i drove were the OHC 1.5 with a KnN and a Getz 1.3 with a KnN.
Not at all impressed with their performance in city, in comparison to the octavia and fiesta.
Maybe I would buy a petrol as a tuner but for a daily fun driving experience, it has to be the diesel!
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Old 21st August 2008, 11:36   #169
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Default Are Diesels as reliable as Petrol?

Guys
May be Off topic but even if one says that Diesels give more driving pleasure now, but in the long run say around 50K on the ODO, would a diesel car remain as reliable as a petrol?
Consider cars in sub 10 lac range like Magnum, Swift-VDI, Getz Diesel, Verna-D, Fiesta-D.
Will Magnum be as reliable as a Civic and won't give huge service bills after 2-3 years and having clocked 50K on the ODO?
Same for Verna-D v/s Honda City.

I asked this coz i look for reliabilty as well as driving pleasure and won't be satisfied with getting just one out of these.
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Old 21st August 2008, 12:47   #170
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all our diesels have done 1 lakh kms+ and never had any reliability problems.
And I am not even talking modern diesels.

Many members have their elantra's vernas safaris crossing 60-70K kms without fuss
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Old 21st August 2008, 14:08   #171
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Originally Posted by zoom_vroom View Post
Guys
May be Off topic but even if one says that Diesels give more driving pleasure now, but in the long run say around 50K on the ODO, would a diesel car remain as reliable as a petrol?
Consider cars in sub 10 lac range like Magnum, Swift-VDI, Getz Diesel, Verna-D, Fiesta-D.
Will Magnum be as reliable as a Civic and won't give huge service bills after 2-3 years and having clocked 50K on the ODO?
Same for Verna-D v/s Honda City.

I asked this coz i look for reliabilty as well as driving pleasure and won't be satisfied with getting just one out of these.
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
all our diesels have done 1 lakh kms+ and never had any reliability problems.
And I am not even talking modern diesels.

Many members have their elantra's vernas safaris crossing 60-70K kms without fuss
Diesel engines are more robustly built and are supposed to long laster than petrols. I understand your concern for maintenance. But the experience of the members on the forums especially the longterm reports do not seem to suggest higher maintenance costs for diesel engines.
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Old 21st August 2008, 14:17   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Many members have their elantra's vernas safaris crossing 60-70K kms without fuss
Correct me if i am wrong, but the fuss starts at 70-80k for the new CRDis, right ? especially the Hyundai CRDi.
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Old 21st August 2008, 15:04   #173
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My friend owned a E220cdi, from 2002. clocked 165000kms here in Mumbai. Did nothing at all thru the 6 years of ownership except regular service!! Just sold it and bought the new E220cdi. He Swears by the cars.
the old car gave him an average of 11kmpl city and 13.5kmpl highway throughout!! In my last trip to Germany a taxi E220cdi had clocked 3.5lac kms!! without any work on the engine and the driver said he had used only 50% of her life, though the suspension was bad.
In fact my E280cdi now gives an average 10kmpl combined. Her fuel consumption has also Improved after the Brabus box was put in!!
And as GTO said these diesels are actually "fill and forget" kind with thier 70+litre tanks. My Jeep Cherokee petrol gives me 5kmpl even on the highway
I am a First time Diesel owner and have changed my mind towards modern day diesels. Am going to change over some of my other cars as well.
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Old 21st August 2008, 15:19   #174
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Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
Does the good old saying : "Buy a diesel car only if your monthly running is xxx kms", hold any good now? Apart from offering similar performance (actually better sometimes), being more refined compared to DI engines (sometimes better than the petrol engines- Swift diesel has more silent engine than the wagonR ), and also maintainence costs are low compared to the old school diesel engines.

I, personally, would prefer a modern day diesel car (say Swift DDiS) over its petrol counterpart anyday, even if my monthly running is a mere 500 kms. Mathematics be damned!

Anyone else having the same thoughts?
Hello
The point to which I am looking an answer to is the quote in the message - Does the good old saying: "Buy a diesel car only if your monthly running is xxx kms", hold any good now?
Does it make sense to buy a a modern diesel car, specifically something like a Palio MJD or Swift DDiS (not bigger cars like Verna, Fiesta, etc), even if your monthly running is around 500Kms?
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Old 21st August 2008, 15:22   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooby05 View Post
My friend owned a E220cdi, from 2002. clocked 165000kms here in Mumbai. Did nothing at all thru the 6 years of ownership except regular service!! Just sold it and bought the new E220cdi. He Swears by the cars.
the old car gave him an average of 11kmpl city and 13.5kmpl highway throughout!! In my last trip to Germany a taxi E220cdi had clocked 3.5lac kms!! without any work on the engine and the driver said he had used only 50% of her life, though the suspension was bad.
In fact my E280cdi now gives an average 10kmpl combined. Her fuel consumption has also Improved after the Brabus box was put in!!
And as GTO said these diesels are actually "fill and forget" kind with thier 70+litre tanks. My Jeep Cherokee petrol gives me 5kmpl even on the highway
I am a First time Diesel owner and have changed my mind towards modern day diesels. Am going to change over some of my other cars as well.
While I am not contesting your claims... the mercs aren't exactly the cars used by most atleast in India. Would like to know how Hyundais & Marutis & Tatas are doing.
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Old 21st August 2008, 15:27   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
Apart from offering similar performance (actually better sometimes), being more refined compared to DI engines (sometimes better than the petrol engines- Swift diesel has more silent engine than the wagonR )
Just read this sentence and I couldn't disagree more!! I have a WagonR and I have heard the SwiftD idling at traffic signals and I was more like "whats that noise?.. ohh a diesel swift!"

Maybe something was wrong with the wagonR you are comparing with!

PS: Sorry for 2 different postings

Last edited by asr245 : 21st August 2008 at 15:28.
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Old 21st August 2008, 15:32   #177
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Originally Posted by asr245 View Post
While I am not contesting your claims... the mercs aren't exactly the cars used by most atleast in India. Would like to know how Hyundais & Marutis & Tatas are doing.
Exactly,thats what i wanted to know.If i consider Optra Magnum over G3HC in near future will i get the reliability and peace of mind?
As said by asr245, all don't drive Mercs and BMW's.Also as i mentioned they are not sub 10 lac range cars.
Even after paying close to 30 lacs if one doesn't get reliability then .
Has anyone's Optra Magnum clocked more than 50 K Kms on the ODO?
I am particularly intrested in Magnum/Fiesta and Verna Diesel variants as i shall consider one in near future (after G3HC is launched).
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Old 21st August 2008, 15:42   #178
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Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
Correct me if i am wrong, but the fuss starts at 70-80k for the new CRDis, right ? especially the Hyundai CRDi.
Well it does not if you maintain the engine as per schedule.
If you look at 10 first owner cars done 1 lakh kms, 9 will be diesel. People who drive more buy diesel. Infact thats the reason you mostly hear about things like maintenance issues etc., If you drive a petrol car for same time, you will find similar issues, and engine issues in petrol cars will start coming at a lower km level.
For example even a honda city engine well maintained may require rebuild at 2 lakh kms. Same care bestowed in a diesel will see it cross 5 lakh+ kms easily. Ask any taxi driver who "owns" the taxi too, not just drives it

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Originally Posted by RAC View Post
Hello
The point to which I am looking an answer to is the quote in the message - Does the good old saying: "Buy a diesel car only if your monthly running is xxx kms", hold any good now?
Does it make sense to buy a a modern diesel car, specifically something like a Palio MJD or Swift DDiS (not bigger cars like Verna, Fiesta, etc), even if your monthly running is around 500Kms?
It still holds good. Why?
Because diesel versions of these cars cost 50K more. Thats like paying 1500/month extra in EMI. So fuel savings go up in smoke. Moreover petrol car will always be quieter than its diesel version, no matter how advanced the tech. This holds true for most cars in the normal segment.
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Old 21st August 2008, 16:39   #179
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The point with most so called modern diesels is that they originally design a Petrol car and then come up with a diesel variant which is more a retrofit – look at the Toyotas, Fords or Chevrolets…. I would call the diesels as matured in age when original versions start coming out in diesel.
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Old 21st August 2008, 16:48   #180
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It still holds good. Why?
Because diesel versions of these cars cost 50K more. Thats like paying 1500/month extra in EMI. So fuel savings go up in smoke. .
For the timebeing let me ignore Palio MJD,Swift DDi. As a hypothetical eg, let us take Verna Petrol & Diesel where the gap is more - ie price difference is 1 lakh approx. For a petrol Verna, you take a loan of Rs.7 lakh at ,say,12% for 3 yrs - the EMI works out to Rs.23250 pm/-. For the diesel verna, the loan amount can be Rs.8 lakhs, which works out to Rs.26500 pm/-. For normal city running of 500 kms per month, you spend approx Rs.2750 on Verna Petrol. For a diesel Verna, may be, you spend approx Rs.1500.
So, per month:
Verna Petrol = Rs.23250 + Rs.2750 = Rs.26000
Verna Diesel = Rs.26500 + Rs.1500 = Rs.28000
Net, net you pay Rs.2000 per month more for a diesel verna. For a 3 yr ownership, you spend Rs.72000 more.
Against this,weigh:
a) Resale value - This will more than offset the Rs.72000 spent extra in 3 yrs, but of course, you realise the value at a later point.
c) Cost of Maintenance - I don't have any objective data for this. But for the 3 yr case we took, it can't be much more for a diesel.
So, the driving pleasure becomes a key criterion for deciding between verna diesel and petrol, depending on your point of view. We can try this analogy for other cars, but it may not strictly hold for all cars though.
Quote:
Moreover petrol car will always be quieter than its diesel version, no matter how advanced the tech. This holds true for most cars in the normal segment
I agree with this. While the noise inside may be felt less because of possibly good NVH, outside the noise is more.
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