Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 21st August 2008, 18:02   #181
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,749
Thanked: 89,404 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
all our diesels have done 1 lakh kms+ and never had any reliability problems.
And I am not even talking modern diesels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoom_vroom View Post
Guys
May be Off topic but even if one says that Diesels give more driving pleasure now, but in the long run say around 50K on the ODO, would a diesel car remain as reliable as a petrol?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooby05 View Post
My friend owned a E220cdi, from 2002. clocked 165000kms here in Mumbai. Did nothing at all thru the 6 years of ownership except regular service!! Just sold it and bought the new E220cdi. He Swears by the cars.
A diesel engine will last as long as a petrol (and longer), if maintained as per the manufacturers recommended schedules.

Buttttttttttttttttttttttttt an important consideration is this : Because of their lower rpm range......typically 4000 rpm versus 6500 rpm......it is much easier to high-revv a diesel than a petrol. Even in the city. If you want your diesel to last long, remember to use the torque and upshift soon. High-revvs = more wear & tear. My Jiju had to rebuild his Benz 220 engine @ 1,70,000 kms. Reason? Predominantly highway drives @ very high revvs. Use the taller gears on the highway. On my recent drive back from Goa, I didn't see the need to go lower than 5th / 6th gear on the empty NH4. The engine was ticking over lazily @ 1800 rpms.

Last edited by GTO : 21st August 2008 at 18:04.
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st August 2008, 20:55   #182
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 293
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post



It still holds good. Why?
Because diesel versions of these cars cost 50K more. Thats like paying 1500/month extra in EMI. So fuel savings go up in smoke. Moreover petrol car will always be quieter than its diesel version, no matter how advanced the tech. This holds true for most cars in the normal segment.
Not true - the extra that you pay when you buy a diesel versus its equivalent petrol will be largely recovered at time of resale.
deepakvrao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st August 2008, 21:09   #183
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,534
Thanked: 984 Times
Default

I would give a damn about the monthly running and would go for a modern diesel any day compared to a petrol car. So that makes it two of us..
abhinav.s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st August 2008, 22:24   #184
BHPian
 
MuzzledMoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: THRISSUR
Posts: 192
Thanked: 28 Times
Default

Well the RPM vs Engine wear comparison should include the engine temperature and weight. Since diesels have higher compression rates, it will generate more temperature and thus more wear and tear compared to petrol which offsets the RPM advantage. The key is diesel is priced lesser in india and that leads to cost advantage. Now latest technology like CDRI has improved reliability of diesel engines. Talking about NVH, petrols are miles ahead
MuzzledMoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2008, 09:59   #185
Senior - BHPian
 
DieselFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,570
Thanked: 233 Times
Default

Diesel engines are built to last. They can handle high compression pressures easily. NO issues there. Diesel engines are much more sturdier than petrol counterparts of same power and cc ratings and they run at lower RPM hence the engine wear is much lower. Diesel also has lubricating properties hence the fuel handling parts
would have lesser wear vis-a-vis petrol counterparts. Diesel cars are better built (Engines/Suspensions) than the petrol counterparts hence is more expensive initially.
DieselFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2008, 11:01   #186
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,749
Thanked: 89,404 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuzzledMoose View Post
The key is diesel is priced lesser in india and that leads to cost advantage.
There isn't a price differential in Europe, yet diesels are popular. Diesels are inherently more fuel-efficient than petrols, with most giving upto 20 - 25% more FE than their equivalent petrol counterparts.
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2008, 11:15   #187
Senior - BHPian
 
asr245's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 1,135
Thanked: 360 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
Diesel engines are built to last. They can handle high compression pressures easily. NO issues there. Diesel engines are much more sturdier than petrol counterparts of same power and cc ratings and they run at lower RPM hence the engine wear is much lower. Diesel also has lubricating properties hence the fuel handling parts
would have lesser wear vis-a-vis petrol counterparts. Diesel cars are better built (Engines/Suspensions) than the petrol counterparts hence is more expensive initially.
Agree with you but better built? I think it's not a choice to build them "better". It's a necessity considering that they have higher compression.
asr245 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2008, 11:19   #188
Senior - BHPian
 
greenhorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: TN-14
Posts: 6,838
Thanked: 1,318 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by asr245 View Post
Agree with you but better built? I think it's not a choice to build them "better". It's a necessity considering that they have higher compression.
but you can still turn up the power without serious modifications .
Can you mod a petrol to get an equivalent level of performance increase with a minimum of engine mods like you can with a diesel using pete's box ?

similarly, petrol engines are detuned to survive indian petrol, but the diesels have no such issues!

Last edited by greenhorn : 22nd August 2008 at 11:21.
greenhorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2008, 11:44   #189
BHPian
 
rajchetan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Thailand / Vietnam / HK / Bangalore
Posts: 325
Thanked: 60 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhinav.s View Post
I would give a damn about the monthly running and would go for a modern diesel any day compared to a petrol car. So that makes it two of us..
Actually i too don't care a damn about the monthly running. In fact the diesel car any day more efficient, less expensive on spares, and are also more environment friendly and are build to last.

If you feel you are paying higher cost on the procurement of the car, its recovered with the additional resale value it demands this means that the saving you do on the running cost is a huge benefit.

Ideally the modern day Diesels serves our better than petrol.
rajchetan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2008, 11:54   #190
Senior - BHPian
 
kutlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,126
Thanked: 194 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
There isn't a price differential in Europe, yet diesels are popular. Diesels are inherently more fuel-efficient than petrols, with most giving upto 20 - 25% more FE than their equivalent petrol counterparts.
Good point. Diesels have higher thermal efficiency? and give better FE even if both petrol and diesel are priced same. But don't they (both pertol and diesel cars in the UK) run quite a lot when compared with Indian usage? Also is the price of the petrol and diesel car same there in the UK? I think even if diesel cars are slightly more costly, this will be offset with the running.
kutlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2008, 12:08   #191
Senior - BHPian
 
asr245's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 1,135
Thanked: 360 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
but you can still turn up the power without serious modifications .
Can you mod a petrol to get an equivalent level of performance increase with a minimum of engine mods like you can with a diesel using pete's box ?

similarly, petrol engines are detuned to survive indian petrol, but the diesels have no such issues!
1. From what I have read in this forum - nopes. Dont know the science behind Pete's box so no clue how it boosts diesel power. Or maybe it is putting some additional stress on the engine but no one's found that out yet. People have been doing that on petrol for ages so most issues are known.

2. So basically if our petrol quality improves we will have access to more powerful petrol engines (and maybe efficient too) without any design mods to them (translating to no increase in price theoritically) but improvement in diesel quality wouldn't give us anything in terms of performance & maybe efficiency?
asr245 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2008, 12:32   #192
RAC
BHPian
 
RAC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 185
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepakvrao View Post
Not true - the extra that you pay when you buy a diesel versus its equivalent petrol will be largely recovered at time of resale.
You mean to say that the resale value of a diesel car is more than that of a petrol version?
I thought it would be same or less, considering how people look at diesel being a higher maintenance car when old.

Last edited by RAC : 22nd August 2008 at 12:33.
RAC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2008, 13:42   #193
Senior - BHPian
 
DieselFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,570
Thanked: 233 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAC View Post
You mean to say that the resale value of a diesel car is more than that of a petrol version?
I thought it would be same or less, considering how people look at diesel being a higher maintenance car when old.
yes that is true. Generally diesel variants of same car model with similar mileage will have higher resale than their petrol counterparts.
Go to any user car website and you will find this pattern.
DieselFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2008, 15:48   #194
Senior - BHPian
 
kutlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,126
Thanked: 194 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by asr245 View Post
2. So basically if our petrol quality improves we will have access to more powerful petrol engines (and maybe efficient too) without any design mods to them (translating to no increase in price theoritically)
Exactly reason we don't get VW Jetta 1.4 TPI.
kutlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2008, 20:05   #195
Senior - BHPian
 
raj_5004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dubai/Mumbai
Posts: 5,078
Thanked: 2,031 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAC View Post
You mean to say that the resale value of a diesel car is more than that of a petrol version?
I thought it would be same or less, considering how people look at diesel being a higher maintenance car when old.
no ways buddy, a diesel car always boasts of a much better resale value. take the toyota innova for example. other examples are scorpio, fiesta, indica, octavia, etc..
BTW, in terms of driving pleasure, why are we discussing resale values? !!!
raj_5004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Buying a car through the CSD. EDIT: Revised eligibility criteria on Page #5 dhanushmenon The Indian Car Scene 213 11th October 2017 21:20
Tracing the Konkan Route in the Monsoon - 6 cars and 1,750 km of driving pleasure paragsachania Travelogues 60 25th August 2016 15:24
Suggest a low budget car that fulfills specific criteria's Surprise Hatchbacks 17 28th February 2007 18:49
Criteria for excise & other duty cuts cartech The Indian Car Scene 1 24th January 2007 11:59
What are your Criteria Before you Buy your Steed! vishnugnair Shifting gears 11 6th May 2004 02:34


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 06:11.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks